Are gains from DS really keepable?

PredatorNutrition


Interesting reading this. I would add that from experience with working with many, many people that upon cessation of steroid use, the body will revert in time to it's natural maximum.

If you take DS/PH's when you are not already there then yes you will, with good training and supplements keep the majority of your gains.

Certainly I do not know many who would fall into the category of people who are already at or near their natural max.

But for some this could be a considerable length of time and it may never return to past highs.
 
e.g I did a small deca only cycle many years ago (mainly for its reputation for improving joints). It did the job, joints felt great and libido was sky high (no deca dick). when i finished this 8 weeker (only 200mg per week) i did nolva pct. Weeks after I still didn't feel i had recovered ( decreased muscle mass, bouts of depression and low energy, lack of libid etc ) at the time this certainly wasn't me. previous to this cycle I had energy and enthusiasm to burn and my libido was always on overdrive. so I redid my pct this time using clomid and Trib. weeks later and still the same. I had bloods done and these were compared to one's i had done some what previously. There was a marked decrease and now at the lower end (270). I've never had them done since so can't comment on what they are now, but I still swear to this day that I've never fully recovered from that deca cycle.
Yes I'm older but it was like a tap had been turned overnight to reduce the flow and was never reopened.

I have never kept strength gains, i hit PB's while on cycle this summer, kept the training intensity up, same diet, yet i cant shift what i was doing. Very frustrating and leads me to believe that pro hormones are only a short term benefit.

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Shane, it could be down to training as you have said you have kept the intensity the same.

When I cycle for strenght I push myself hard and I keep the intensity hard for the first week of pct but I then drop the weight down and up the reps. The idea being to solidify what I had gained if that makes sense?

So for example say my PB was 90kg for 5 on a lift.

On cycle I may go upto 120 for 5.

Post cycle I will drop the wieght but prob do like 100kg for 8.

Also I rate have a week off or even 2 weeks lifting much lowwer weights before pushing heavy again as your body will not beable to keep pushing forward regarding heavy lifts all the time, its just not possible imo. By working yourself in this way your lifts will go down as your body is getting tiered.

Injury can be the biggest downfall, you can keep 80% of your gains with a good diet and good heavy routine but you develop an injury and it's then hard to get back to 'that' weight...rotator cuff being prime example, years of hardwork can be seriously undone..

strikalite


Injury can be the biggest downfall, you can keep 80% of your gains with a good diet and good heavy routine but you develop an injury and it's then hard to get back to 'that' weight...rotator cuff being prime example, years of hardwork can be seriously undone..

Tell me about it, i used to consistenly bench 135kg for 6+ reps now i cant get anywhere near that, doubt i ever will either!Damn rotator cuff injury has buggered me up bigtime.

^^I never had any aches or tendon/muscle niggles whilst on Sus+deca(the deca protected everything!)yet I've been clean for nearly 6 years now and had rotator cuff injury, elbow niggles, knee issues too...it's a different world in the gym these days, desperate to keep injury free for one...that's why that feeling you get whilst being 'on' and being able to totally push yourself without having an injury worry is SO addictive!

Kraven

PredatorNutrition


Interesting reading this. I would add that from experience with working with many, many people that upon cessation of steroid use, the body will revert in time to it's natural maximum.

If you take DS/PH's when you are not already there then yes you will, with good training and supplements keep the majority of your gains.

Certainly I do not know many who would fall into the category of people who are already at or near their natural max.

But for some this could be a considerable length of time and it may never return to past highs.
 
e.g I did a small deca only cycle many years ago (mainly for its reputation for improving joints). It did the job, joints felt great and libido was sky high (no deca dick). when i finished this 8 weeker (only 200mg per week) i did nolva pct. Weeks after I still didn't feel i had recovered ( decreased muscle mass, bouts of depression and low energy, lack of libid etc ) at the time this certainly wasn't me. previous to this cycle I had energy and enthusiasm to burn and my libido was always on overdrive. so I redid my pct this time using clomid and Trib. weeks later and still the same. I had bloods done and these were compared to one's i had done some what previously. There was a marked decrease and now at the lower end (270). I've never had them done since so can't comment on what they are now, but I still swear to this day that I've never fully recovered from that deca cycle.
Yes I'm older but it was like a tap had been turned overnight to reduce the flow and was never reopened.

Yeah I have seen this with deca specifically which is why I always preferred boldenone as an anabolic base where androgenic side effects are feared.

I think we are speaking at cross purposes above though. what i meant to say is by natural maximum is the overall size gained not anything relating to hormone function. E.g, say your natural non-prohormone maximum weight is 200lbs at 10% bf. You could take PH's to get up to 210 or 220 but eventually, after a long enough time off, your body will revert to the 200lb natural maximum.

Of course different people will have different natural limits but ultimately you can only support so much muscle mass with your body's natural test levels and it is nothing like what can be built with anabolics.

Taz


At the end of the day the reason your average recreational trainer like myself who posts on this site, does not live just to train and so will have off periods due to other commitments and are not taking it to the extreme etc

As such IMO you will inevitably loose gains made.
 
But if diet, training rest are in check all the time I don’t see why gains made on cycle are not keepable.

Totally agree.

A big factor in why people lose gains is that:

1) They train and diet harder whilst on cycle because they don't want to "waste" the DS / PH
2) When they finish the cycle, they chill out, diet and training go downhill, as they expect to lose what they've made

People train harder because they don't want to waste the £30 they spent on the DS - just the same as when you go to a restaurant and you'll eat till the plate's clean, even if you're stuffed, because you don't want to "waste" the expensive meal.

The real waste is in not staying consistant after cycles - consistancy is the best PCT anyone could have.

Daari

Icemansoldier


Interesting......Test e's the way foward mate

how will that be any different?

My comment was aimed at awg as he also plans to do a test cycle as do i, i didnt mean in general that its the way foward, although if you told some people on this forum you ran DS, i bet they would say test e is the way foward.

arent u like 18 iceman??
i have kept most gains form DS cycles t be honest and strength drops have been only slight.. with my test cycle however i think i have had a 'considerable' drop in strength.. but this was down to a couple of small enforced lay offs too..

with proper diet and training, and consistency when the gear is finished, gains can be very keepable.. whether its DS or AAS