Following on from a previous thread ...

For my bit I'm obviously going to say machine leg press is the back masher and squats rule, but it's all about opinions ... !

Vote for leg press, if you go full range it's very hard to keep your back in a safe position, especially for old gits like me.

A squat is propriceptively a more functional movement for the reflexes to respond to.
The leg press machine means with any amount of weight the spine is pressed into a 'flat' position which is not the strongest position for the trunk muscles to enagage.
 
However the individuals starting points would all need to be considered. Ie. what are they stacked up like instrically? how much weight are they pushing? do they have any injuries past or present? what are their reasons for this movement?
 
I have used a leg press for other types of work like light plyometric work for conditioning during my knee rehab after an ACL rupture. This would have been much harder for me in a standing position due to the balance and coordination I had lost. But not necessarily detrimental to my back if performed well on a robust pelvis, spine and trunk musculature.
 
Most equipment could be argued to have its use at a certain time during a progressive programme

^^At a certain time, with certain loads, with certain training parameters.
 
I think both open (leg press) and closed (squat) chain exercises have their place, if it's greater functional carryover and bang for your buck exercises, closed chain is the way to go. If you want more muscle isolation and focus, or as a means of rehab or progressing through an initial type of exercise, open chain is definitely worthwhile.
 
In the context of the OP, I think a lot of people plump for leg pressing because (a) they struggle with squats because their mobility is terrible and end up with niggles and injuries and (b) squats are punishing when you do them properly.
 
Ultimately no exercise is bad, just the numpty performing them badly! In becoming a bit of a functional fanboy of late, I personally wouldn't programme leg press into my training unless it served a specific purpose that a safely performed squat couldn't fulfill.

^^^ totally!!

Lets try it another way
 
Have you had a low back injury and if so did you do it squatting or leg pressing?

Jeff45


Lets try it another way

Have you had a low back injury and if so did you do it squatting or leg pressing?

 
Not an injury per se, but I have had lower back niggles, sometimes quite painful, caused by leg pressing. I now squat far heavier loads and have absolutely no problems with my back. The problem with leg pressing is that once you go past a certain depth your lower back inevitably starts to curve, and you have the entire load of the movement resting purely on your curved lower back. Squatting is the most natural movement there is, humans were built to do it. If there is a problem it will be down to technique, or some underlying issue that makes you incapable of doing the movement (ie limited flexibility).
 
In the other thread you said "putting a heavy weighted bar across the back of your neck" - assuming this was hyperbole to a degree and you weren't actually resting the bar on your neck (which would probably result in paralysing yourself!), we can take it that you were using a very high bar position. There's nothing wrong with high bar but the vast majority of people who use it do it wrong. To see a properly executed high bar squat, look at the way olympic weightlifters do it. What most gym goers do, and I'm willing to wager what you were doing, was a bastardisation of a high bar and a low bar squat, placing the load very high on the back but still not sitting back into the lift enough and inevitably incorporating a bit of a forward lean coming out of the hole - this can/will cause lower back problems.

Jeff45


Lets try it another way

Have you had a low back injury and if so did you do it squatting or leg pressing?

Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you might be suggesting you hurt your back during one of these moves or that you have a bad back and are considering which move to use for leg work?
Could you clarify so that people can respond more specifically mate, I think the questions are too broad

it started in another thread rachfit.
i indeed hurt my back several times squatting and as such never squat.
The OP and I had a discussion as to what was the exercise which caused more injuries.
I have never known anyone hurt their back leg pressing in over 23 years of training, I have however known hundreds who have done it squatting.
 
 

Jeff45


Lets try it another way

Have you had a low back injury and if so did you do it squatting or leg pressing?

Lets not, because this will uncover a whole host of people who will claim to have hurt their back squatting and use this as a reason for not performing this movement. I would also hate for someone to post a statement containing the words squatting, bad, for, your, knees and is.
 
As Rachel, CK and Bollard have indicated, technique is paramount, perhaps more so with the squat because of the higher level of proprioception involved. The flipside of this is that for this reason and if done properly, the squat will be much more beneficial to athletic performance and is probably less likely to contribute to an injury.

Jeff45


it started in another thread rachfit.
i indeed hurt my back several times squatting and as such never squat.
The OP and I had a discussion as to what was the exercise which caused more injuries.
I have never known anyone hurt their back leg pressing in over 23 years of training, I have however known hundreds who have done it squatting.

Sorry yes just caught up and read the reason for this post.
ok I have to say you could have had perfect extrinsic technique as you say, with all the right teaching points in place.
BUT if you have/had a rotated pelvis, neural tension, mild functional scoliosis, these are intrinsic issues that you cannot see and yet can, during a weighted squat cause wear and tear over time that you are unaware of. That is until your back goes.
This is just a possibility mate and means that it wasnt necessarily the squat itself that hurt you, but the way your muscles, skeletal system and nerves might be stacked up.
 
So consider this: many people who do sit at a desk all day and DONT have a back back, there are those who squat and DONT get a back back. This therefore indicates that it isnt necessarily the sitting or squatting that gives people the bad back as such. The movement is an effect on the root cause.
 
An example is a client I had last year who was suffering really badly with sciatica and chronic back pain so much so she was registered disabled off work.
Now she was told by medical professionals that it was down to the fact she sits in her car for many hours a day and then at her desk. So when I explained to her that this is exaclty what I do every day too but I dont have the same problem, she started to recognise that while the sitting in the car is not good for the body it was more something inside her system being out of line that was creating this problem.
 
Actual discogenic low back pain accounts for only about 3-5% of cases and more often than not it is the wear and tear and excessive loading that starts out warning you that something is waiting to happen. If we all took a little more notice of this awesome instruments communication system maybe we wouldnt get these problems that continue to effect us for the rest of our lives.
 
i hope this helps

Lets not, because this will uncover a whole host of people who will claim to have hurt their back squatting and use this as a reason for not performing this movement. I would also hate for someone to post a statement containing the words squatting, bad, for, your, knees and is.

 
Thanks for that Thumper, by the way do you sell power racks?
If people have hurt their backs squatting or leg pressing then that is factual evidence that the movement causes injury.
We can make assumptions all day about correct alignment of the spine and joints but at the end of the day its actual injuries that count.
I agree that squats may have their place in an overall workout program but as for building great legs they are not vital.
I would go as far as to say that a squat is a better excercise for the abs and glutes than it is for legs.
 
Also why are you so concerned if other people perform this movement or not?
I never squat but I wouldnt want to stop other people doing the movement if they wanted to and felt a benefit from it.

Jeff45

Lets not, because this will uncover a whole host of people who will claim to have hurt their back squatting and use this as a reason for not performing this movement. I would also hate for someone to post a statement containing the words squatting, bad, for, your, knees and is.

Thanks for that Thumper, by the way do you sell power racks?
If people have hurt their backs squatting or leg pressing then that is factual evidence that the movement causes injury.
We can make assumptions all day about correct alignment of the spine and joints but at the end of the day its actual injuries that count.
I agree that squats may have their place in an overall workout program but as for building great legs they are not vital.
I would go as far as to say that a squat is a better excercise for the abs and glutes than it is for legs.

Also why are you so concerned if other people perform this movement or not?
I never squat but I wouldnt want to stop other people doing the movement if they wanted to and felt a benefit from it.

Your logic is badly flawed.
 
ANY exercise, in fact ANY movement will result in injury if performed badly, especially one that involves moving a heavy weight.
 
It's POOR EXECUTION of the movement that causes injury, whether that be down to poor technique or trying to lift too much weight too quickly.

Glutes are counted as leg muscle.

Anyway, squats are harder to get right, but more benificial overall than nearly any one lift. So more people will indeed get injured squatting. To my mind the leg press is an issue when a larger ROM is attempted that the lifted cannot produce in the hip. So similar to the squat However most people use a small ROM in the press and so never encounter this problem.

No one lift is essential. If the goal of the lift is only to try and increase the size of the quads then press and off (horrible lift that's hurt countless knees) then the squat is certanly not essential. If you want a lift that stresses the whole leg and core then the squat is your man.

I have seen injuries due to the leg press, I have seen injudoes through squatting. Both rarely. I have never seen an acute back injury in a powerlifting meet.

Now you mention it, I tried to get down the stairs this morning; head first. Hurt myself doing it. I'll need to stop going down the stairs, because now there's factual evidence that going down the stairs causes injury.
 
Anyone got a contact number for Stannah?

Thanks thumper
Roughly translated as "Yes, I have hurt my back squatting but dont want to stop squatting in case my mates at the gym dont think Im a real man anymore"
 
Im simply trying to establish if more people hurt their backs leg pressing or squatting, I suppose people perform both movements incorrectly, that isnt the issue.

Everytime you sit and stand you squat!!
But as per Iaink's post and my previous post it is all up to the individual and their personal aims and goals.
So an essential movement for basic daily activities however NOT for all training goals.
Most importantly concern would be to understand why the back failed 

Jeff45


Thanks thumper
Roughly translated as "Yes, I have hurt my back squatting but dont want to stop squatting in case my mates at the gym dont think Im a real man anymore"

I've never hurt myself performing any resistance training exercise and neither have any of my athletes, but I am cognisant that technique is paramount in everything that you do with regards to sports performance, admittedly not so in bodybuilding due to the nature of the goal.
 
Every one of my athletes also squat because I believe there is a strong turnover to several aspects of performance when done properly. From my point of view, back squatting is a very functional, athletic movement.
 
I agree that this might not be your experience, hence you will have a different logic.

More people will have hurt their backs squatting. Mainly due to do with the fact that more people perform the squat badly, and as a more complex lift it will expouse more intrinsic problems. How you perform and load a lift is fundamental to occurance of injury and can not be dismissed.

People get loads of shoukder problems when benching. Not surprised given how most,people bench. However the bench press shouldnt be avoided if its use is conccurent to your goals.