Best for quality, hard, keepable gains?

Can anyone help me decide what DS to go for?
I suppose, what I'm looking for is the closest designer Steroid to Anavar.
I'm not interested in blowing up for a few weeks then deflating rapidly after the cycle is over (which is what seems to happen to many Superdrol users at my local gym)- I want solid lean gains in mass that I can hold onto, even if they are modest gains.
I know the obvious answer is "why don't you do a cycle of anavar then?"...well, I did start one a while ago but only stayed on for about 3 weeks because I experienced some very nasty sides, probably due to a bad batch (UGL)  or fakes, thats why I'd rather go down thee DS route... atleast you know what you're getting.
Does such a designer steroid exist?
 
Thanks

Lard4Pies

. atleast you know what you're getting. 
 

Not always the case.





Keeping gains depend on solid pct, and diet.    Obviously some compounds do give a lot of water weight.   I would say epi would be a good option.  Nice lean dry gains, with many people reporting a drop in bf% as well.   My favourite ds by miles.

ItsNOTlikeTHAT

I would say epi would be a good option.  Nice lean dry gains, with many people reporting a drop in bf% as well.

I concur. 30mg x 6 weeks is standard.

So some DS companies are selling fakes?
Thanks guys...I'll do some reading up about epi and decide if its for me, it sounds good though
I'll do a search but are there any particular articles or threads that are worth a look at?

Lard4Pies


So some DS companies are selling fakes?

Some of the time there isn't enough testing done by the manufacturers to confirm that the compounds they're putting in their products are exactly what they asked the Chinese chemists for. For example, when Orastan-A was tested, it was found not to have the advertised furazan ring, but an isoxazole ring instead (making it effectively a completely different compound). [link]

Epistane or it's clones are good enough for what you want.

Iv just been reading some old threads about epi and also Cyno, epi seems to be liked by everyone who has used it but cyno has mixed reviews so I think I'll go with the epi, I also love the fact that it has anti gyno properties!
 I have some mild gyno from puberty so this might help with that.
Can anyone recommend the best brand of epi (if we are allowed to discuss brands on here) and also what I should do for PCT/ seems to be conflicting opinions on PCT in old threads, though a general consensus that it is very easy to recover from with minimal shut down, which I like.
Do I need a SERM with this?
I'll source some just incase but Id rather use OTC PCT if I can get away with it.

Lard4Pies


I also love the fact that it has anti gyno properties!

Though that is used in the promotion of epi, it's certainly not unique to it. Several non-aromatising androgens have been studied for that purpose, including DHT, danazol, epitiostane, and masteron.

henryv

Lard4Pies


I also love the fact that it has anti gyno properties!

Though that is used in the promotion of epi, it's certainly not unique to it. Several non-aromatising androgens have been studied for that purpose, including DHT, danazol, epitiostane, and masteron.

Thats interesting, I had no idea.
(shows how much reading-up I'v done for myself!)
 
Although I'm not too worried about getting rid of existing gyno because its hardly noticable if atall, I feel much more at ease using a compound that can prevent it from getting worse, so thats deffinatly something I'll consider when choosing future cycles.

Lard4Pies


Thats interesting, I had no idea.
(shows how much reading-up I'v done for myself!)
 
Although I'm not too worried about getting rid of existing gyno because its hardly noticable if atall, I feel much more at ease using a compound that can prevent it from getting worse, so thats deffinatly something I'll consider when choosing future cycles.

One Japanese study compared masteron (unmethylated superdrol) to epitiostanol (which is unmethylated epi), and the epitiostanol was marginally more successful at treating gyno. The interesting thing about that is that it would suggest that superdrol may have the same effect, were it not too toxic to run long enough.

There's no guarantees about gyno though, some people claim epi's made it worse, better, or had no effect.

Epi caused me gyno. I'm not saying not to take it. Just not take it thinking "I'm safe from gyno"

Re brands, there are a few. The main original brands I guess are IBE Epistane and RPN Havoc.

Slightly different. Havoc is more like Epidrol chemically as - 2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol.

Epistane is slightly different as 2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioall-cholan-17b-ol.

I dont know if that makes a difference though.

I have read some reviews where people say they prefer Havoc to Epi and have had better gains.

I used epi for 20/30/30/40 and had some good gains. I wasnt particularly stronger as I got too pumped too quickly. But I did lose enough fat to be obvious and ended up 5lbs heavier too, looking more grainy.
PCT wise I used Anabolic Innovations Advanced PCT which is an OTC 6-Bromo product. I recovered without noticing. No gyno, no loss of libido. Nothing.
Beware it makes your nipples tingle but its not gyno. Just tingling. Dont rub them!!! Lol.

Ron Jeremy
2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol.

2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallocholan-17b-ol.

Same thing written two different ways.

Oh so they really are the same? Cool

havoc and epi are indeed slightly different. This was confirmed a while back.  They are more-or-less the same though, although many swear that havoc is more potent mg for mg

Iron labs epi extreme is written the same as havoc and I am going to try that next as its cheaper. But as HenryV (who looks to be some sort of pharmacist/chemist or something, Henry?) says, how its written doesn't mean much.

A friend of mine took Fast action pharma Epidrol as I took Epistane.
I ate properly, he didnt. I didnt drink, he did. I trained like a warrior, he trained like a sort of army chef.

My gains were good, leaner and bigger but only just. He seemed to get a fair bit bigger, slightly leaner and got many more spots.

but then he probably took in more cals (I was over 3000), and we are different people after all. Only way to know it to try.

Ill be doing epi extreme next for 6 weeks at 20/30/30/30/40/40 followed by an ATD PCT.

Ill just be using milk thistle and hawthorn berry extract I reckon. Oh and some sort of oil blend probably udos. That'll cover my liver, cholestrol and blood pressure. Prostate and libido should be fine.

Daari


havoc and epi are indeed slightly different. This was confirmed a while back.  They are more-or-less the same though, although many swear that havoc is more potent mg for mg

Any difference between them is not due to (or expressed in) the slight variations in the way the nomenclature is written.

Ron Jeremy


Iron labs epi extreme is written the same as havoc and I am going to try that next as its cheaper. But as HenryV (who looks to be some sort of pharmacist/chemist or something, Henry?) says, how its written doesn't mean much.

Enthusiastic amateur. If you're interested in better understanding the steroidal nomenclature or structural diagrams, I knocked up this article on the subject.