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Best macro ratio for bulking??

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Tuffy
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2009/12/16 22:01:48 (permalink)

Best macro ratio for bulking??

I am planning my bulking diet for the new year but am getting confused with the conflicting advice on the ratio of protein / carbs / fat to consume.

In the past I have followed a 40:40:20 split for bulking but I have read that carbs should be double that of protein.

Which is the recommended way to go about it?

Also it would be helpful if everyone could post their ratio up for comparison.

Also how to calculate the required calories. Is it 20 x bodyweight (as a rough guide)?



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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/16 22:10:40 (permalink)
    First off, how did you get on with your last bulking phase? was it successful? Did you put on lean mass or lots of fat?

    And what was your breakdown before?

    Will need your weight also mate
    #2
    Tuffy
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/16 22:38:54 (permalink)
    I would not like to base my new bulk on my previous ones as I was nowhere near dedicated enough.

    My current stats:

    Weight: 89kg
    Height: 175cm
    BF%: 11-14


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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/16 23:03:40 (permalink)
    Yeah man just checked your journal out.

    To be honest coming off a cutting phase and going into a bulking phase is awesome, i find i put on the most muscle. I added about 3kg with 0.2% BF increase in 4-5 weeks with no supps, i find there is a massive rebound affect.

    To be honest from looking at your log you have improved all over the place on lifting right? And your slowing down losing weight so your probably approaching your maintenance kcal intake, simply put just slowly increase your kcal intake.

    I would increase your intake either first thing in the morning or post work out then pre work out then 2nd snack until your start to gain a bit of fat then back off again. You follow?

    If i was you, i would increase Breakfast and Post workout kcal (so more carbs probably) for a week, see if there is a difference either in appearance or on the scale. Remember scales may stay the same but may get leaner :)

    If nothing is happening slowly add in the calories else where. We are only talking say 250kcal extra a day, then maybe 400-500kcal if your not responding. adding in 250kcal is an extra 1750kcal a week and if your on maintenance your now above it and adding lean tissue.

    Or in fact you could drop one of your cardio sessions also, i cant remember how many you do a week? That will be depleting your carb stores which could be used for recovery/growth.

    For actually macro figures i stick to about

    Protein 1.8g per kg.bw or 20-25%
    carbs 55% -60% of total calories
    Fat - makes up the rest about 20%
    (thats from Mike Stones book on strength training)

    Kinda tired so may of missed some stuff out. But generally what ever has worked for you is working so why change it??

    Work out your macros and your total calorie intake and add about 10-20% total calories (hopefully should be about 200-300kcals) and see how you get on :)
    #4
    loz_86
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 00:53:13 (permalink)
    i'd forget about ratios

    train hard, eat big and clean and you will grow

    200g protein per day, complex carbs in every meal, healthy fats, plenty of fruit and veg

    keep it simple

    as above, if you're not gaining weight and strength, gradually increase food intake until you are.. at a rate of 1lb every 7 - 14 days


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    Tuffy
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 09:27:52 (permalink)
    Next

    Yeah man just checked your journal out.

    To be honest coming off a cutting phase and going into a bulking phase is awesome, i find i put on the most muscle. I added about 3kg with 0.2% BF increase in 4-5 weeks with no supps, i find there is a massive rebound affect.

    To be honest from looking at your log you have improved all over the place on lifting right? And your slowing down losing weight so your probably approaching your maintenance kcal intake, simply put just slowly increase your kcal intake.

    I would increase your intake either first thing in the morning or post work out then pre work out then 2nd snack until your start to gain a bit of fat then back off again. You follow?

    If i was you, i would increase Breakfast and Post workout kcal (so more carbs probably) for a week, see if there is a difference either in appearance or on the scale. Remember scales may stay the same but may get leaner :)

    If nothing is happening slowly add in the calories else where. We are only talking say 250kcal extra a day, then maybe 400-500kcal if your not responding. adding in 250kcal is an extra 1750kcal a week and if your on maintenance your now above it and adding lean tissue.

    Or in fact you could drop one of your cardio sessions also, i cant remember how many you do a week? That will be depleting your carb stores which could be used for recovery/growth.

    For actually macro figures i stick to about

    Protein 1.8g per kg.bw or 20-25%
    carbs 55% -60% of total calories
    Fat - makes up the rest about 20%
    (thats from Mike Stones book on strength training)

    Kinda tired so may of missed some stuff out. But generally what ever has worked for you is working so why change it??

    Work out your macros and your total calorie intake and add about 10-20% total calories (hopefully should be about 200-300kcals) and see how you get on :)


    I like the sound of that

    Cheers for the advice mate. I am still losing weight but at a slower rate now and if I am honest with myself it is probably more to do with the fact that I have started cheating more regularly.

    I will do as you advised and work a plan out and add and extra 250-500cals per day if I am not growing over a 3-4 week period.

    My current average cals over the carb cycle are: 2836 + maybe another 100 or so for additions that have been added.

    My maintenance was: 3646 (based on HB formula - very active) maybe a bit high tbh

    Going off the same formula my maintenance is now: 3409, so to bulk I should be aiming for around 3900cals? This is a similar figure if multiplying my weight x 18.


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    Big Les
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 11:17:45 (permalink)
    I dont do ratios - but I do do bulking articles
    http://articles.musclet...rticle-mass-gaining.aspx

    follow the guidelines and the ratios follow that.

    Interesting that you are multiplying your weight by 18 - given that all the equations I see use the range 25-35kcals/kg to find out maintenance levels - and that is the range for sedentary people and light trainers

    if you are pushing 2-3 hours 5/6 days a week that can put your demands into the range 50-90kcal/kg as a requirement (in the weight range 50-100kg)

    :)

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    Drew Price
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 13:14:34 (permalink)
    Ratio's mean nothing on their own.

    I could base my diet on doughnuts and gristle and get near a ratio quoted as 'optimum'.

    Foods, the amounts, quality and when you ate them.

    Drew Price BSc MSc 
    Registered Nutritionist and S&C coach       
    Author of The DODO Diet 
     
    #8
    Big Les
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 13:35:03 (permalink)
    you could also get the ratio quoted in 100 calories :)

    That wouldnt be much use either!

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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 14:09:53 (permalink)
    Well i don't personal use macro's like the others, but if someone asks something i shall try and answer it :)

    I normally just eat alot of everything, well make sure i have my protein+veg+ fat and then all my carbs around my workouts breakie.

    I aim for a rough calorie intake, if i don't put on weight in 2 weeks, or look leaner and as long as my weights go up generally i know its ok if not i adjust in slow increments.

    If your on 2800kcal and your maintenance is 3600 i would be interested to see how much you are losing a week? Thats like a 700-800kcal drop give or take, and as you say you are very active?? In my eyes thats 2-3 hours exercise a day like Big Les says you should be shedding weight.

    If your not i would suggest upping your calories a bit (still below maintenance but by like 200-300kcal) and probably would lose more bodyfat due to a higher metabolism. Obviously if someone could also confirm that?

    A side note since you asked, i wouldn't suddenly just up your calorie intake to a massive surplus intake your body would **** itself with the new amount of calories. Again slowly introduce them again in 200-300kcal increments
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    Tuffy
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 14:48:30 (permalink)
    Les - I meant 18 x lb bodyweight for bulking cals.

    I have read your article, that is what led me to start questioning the 40:40:20 split I was used to.

    I have never tried bulking with the amount of carbs you suggest, so I will give it a bash. I will monitor and adjust depending on if I am gaining too much fat.

    Cheers fellas for all the advice
    post edited by Tuffy - 2009/12/17 15:07:22


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    Tuffy
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 15:15:00 (permalink)
    So based on my weight of 89kg / 196lbs and BF around 13%, I have about 170lbs of lean mass.

    So protein will be: 170 x 1.5 = 255g / 1020 cals

    Carbs: 255 x 2 = 510g / 2040 cals

    So 3060 cals + fat. So how much fat should I be having?? 500-900 cals?

    Cheers


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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 18:05:04 (permalink)
    Looks ok tuffy,

    like i said before be careful reintroducing a lot of calories from a restricted calorie phase. On the other hand your metabolism should be jacked so should eat everything up in site :)

    Hope you have a good clean bulk bud, you look like you worked your ass off in your log
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    Tuffy
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 18:45:51 (permalink)
    Next

    Looks ok tuffy,

    like i said before be careful reintroducing a lot of calories from a restricted calorie phase. On the other hand your metabolism should be jacked so should eat everything up in site :)

    Hope you have a good clean bulk bud, you look like you worked your ass off in your log


    Cheers mate, really looking forward to it now.

    What's your take on the amount of fat I should include?

    The plan is to include 2 SSCV sessions of 30 mins per week. If I start to put too much fat on I will add another session or increase the other 2 by 15 minutes each. If then I am still gaining too much fat I will reduce carbs somewhat.

    I will post my propsed diet when I have planned it for advice etc.


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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/17 22:44:10 (permalink)
    Mate i love fat :)

    I have fat with all my meals and only taking carbs in breakie and pre/post workout.

    Fat is the most dense kcal so be careful, but having a ultra low fat diet can be massively counter productive considering pretty due to the hormones it can affect.

    But like you have i would say about 500kcal (45g)  or something like that. Its only guideline bud so you will have to play it by ear yourself, i would keep taking waist measurements and girth measurements and keep recording each week.
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    Tuffy
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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/18 07:36:54 (permalink)
    Based on the rough diet I have down so far I think I will struggle to keep fat below 75g as I have whole eggs and salmon which bumps it up to about 50g. Then there is the lean mince I have which is 12%, so another 25g or so.


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    Re:Best macro ratio for bulking?? 2009/12/18 10:50:10 (permalink)
    Yup and consider the fat that comes in with other meats and oils that you may cook with.

    Don't make it overly complicated. What ever has worked for you cutting just do the opposite.

    No doubt you started at for example 3000kcal and slowly took that down to 2500kcal and upped your cardio. Now go from 2500kcal and work up past 3000 while taking your cardio the other way. Keep your diary up to date so you know what your eating and just evaluate every sunday if you have/haven't gained weight.Simples :)


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