Biomechanics Q & A: Post your questions here

Rachfit


With regard to form on the 3 big lifts it is a difficult one to answer for a few reasons.
Everyone is so different in shape and size and even if we were specific to the limb length it would depend on what the individual is trying to achieve and there own genetic make up including biomechanics. This is all still important even if well stacked up through pelvis, spine, nerves and joints.
In saying this I believe for a bodybuilder it is prudent to train in a variety of hand positions, stances and grips for overall strength and the position at which they feel the strongest is where they are likely to lift heaviest.
 
What are your thoughts?
 

Thats fair. For me as an individual (long arms, long legs, normal'ish length torso i'd imagine, narrow clavicles) the following seems to be working for me for week-by-week strength increments;

Deadlift = Narrowish stance, toes pointed outward (overly tight achilles tendon's mean my plantar flexion is somewhat crap). Since improving my hip flexibility i can sink into the starting position more and this has helped massively to get my hamstrings into the lift and keep some strain off my lumbar region. I feel this is the lift i'm best built for.

Squat = Shoulder width plus a few inches for stance (so quite wide), toes out again, olympic lifting shoes on and quite a low bar position allows me to hit good depth and open my hips up for a good concentric drive.

Bench = This is probably the worst lift i'm built for! Normally i put a moderate arch in my back and take quite a powerlifting-type posture with it; fairly wide grip. I find when using a grip with my index fingers on what's normally the second set of rings on the bar i can get through the first few reps quite well, but as soon as i get towards the end i hit a big big sticky point and my triceps will just bail on me.

Although if i bring in my grip just a finger or two's width, theres more strain on the tri's throughout the lift, but appears to be less of an outright failure point when they can't get through the phase that proceeds the first 3-4 inches off the chest.

Squatting and Deadlifting i can work around my anthropometry and optmise the lifts, but for benching i'm just buggered really!

i'm experiancing pain in the region the clavical meets the delts

tried swimming yesterday again and breast stroke feels like they are grinding away at this point.

other injury is my right pec where it ties into the sternum.
if i cough sometimes i get a stabbing pain there and when i tried to do dips the other day i felt the same pain? Been a few weeks

"Sit on a hard chair, cross one ankle over opposite knee, keeping joints clear. Place hand onto inside of top knee. With NO movement press your knee into your hand, to engage your piriformis, with 20% effort for 20 seconds. Release and repeat 4 times."

To clarify, which direction am i pushing with my knee? upwards or horizontally - in the direction of my foot?

Would doing some release work with a tennis ball on the piriformis help? also the ITB, TFL and glute med

Thanks again

Incredible Bulk


i'm experiancing pain in the region the clavical meets the delts

tried swimming yesterday again and breast stroke feels like they are grinding away at this point.

other injury is my right pec where it ties into the sternum.
if i cough sometimes i get a stabbing pain there and when i tried to do dips the other day i felt the same pain? Been a few weeks

Sounds like the acromioclavicular (AC) joint - what sort of pain? Intermittent/constant? Ache/Sharp? Anything that changes the severity of it (i.e at waking, when training, post-training, night pain?).

That said, the most common injury mechanism for the AC joint is through impact - so it may be an issue r/e the stabilisers of the joint; namely the Anterior Delt and Traps (maybe the way you brought these up recently had an impact, maybe not). Alternatively it might be an individual part of the joint rather than the joint itself as theres a handful of different ligaments that aid stabilisation of the joint.

Then again my four weeks of clinical reasoning skills may be leading me up the wrong path completely. Litigation = avoided

blanka


"Sit on a hard chair, cross one ankle over opposite knee, keeping joints clear. Place hand onto inside of top knee. With NO movement press your knee into your hand, to engage your piriformis, with 20% effort for 20 seconds. Release and repeat 4 times."

To clarify, which direction am i pushing with my knee? upwards or horizontally - in the direction of my foot?

Would doing some release work with a tennis ball on the piriformis help? also the ITB, TFL and glute med

Thanks again

You are pushing your knee up into your hand while at the same time pressing the ousdie of the ankle into the thigh it is resting on. The important thing is the 20%. While we cannot measure this accurately it is important that you undrstand it needs to be a very subtle muscle contraction. It is very easy to wonder why oyu are not feeling anything and thus start to push harder but this is harder is not better here!
 
Using a tennis ball is definitely a good addition or deep tissue massage to help with the muscle release. But what this doesnt do is releave the actual cause which is the subclinical spasm.
 
Keep me posted!! ;)

 Incredible Bulk

There is also a high chance you have tethering of the nervous system. This can produce pain at any point along the entire system and the pain often does not give an indication of the site of the cause.

Ak_88
This could also be a reason for the tightness in your back and achilles which results in compensations with your technique.

The nervous system is a structure that is very often overlooked in all exercise prescription.
The type of easy nerve mobilisation work I would recommend has proven with the research that velocity can be improved by up to 208% in just 15 reps x 2 sets!!
The body would much prefer to damage a muscle than a nerve and so this tethering can cause muscles to go into spasm to protect the nrevous system.

We are proving over and over again that every structure in the body has an influence on the other structures.
We talk about the left hamstring inserting into the right scap and humorus. If we can accept and understand this fully we can understand how we should be taking note more of the mechanics rather than the actual pains which are often referred.

Ak_88
Have you looked at our website?

Whilst i agree with you the body's very much a kinetic chain and everything will affect everything else -  you're not saying the hamstrings physically insert anywhere near the scapula or humerus i hope?

I've never really looked into my achilles tightness though - mainly because at the time i discovered it i was busy rehabbing my back problems! At present it doesn't cause me any problems so i've not really got any motivation to sort it out just yet.

I'm unsure if it would be nervous, as i can feel the point of resistance if i'm doing ankle mobility stuff, and it displays no 'classic' signs of nervous impingement (i.e pins and needles, shooting pains, unexplained weakness, etc).

I'm not saying your theory should be binned as i know the importance of the nervous system and it's potential to refer pain else where, but for me the symptoms are more indicative of a musculoskeletal problem rather than a nervous one

I've not had a proper look at your website just yet Rachel - when i get the little free time i have away from studying the last thing i can hack is putting more biomechanics and other learning into my head! I'll have a peruse later though.

ak88-  you wouldnt necessarily get any of the signs of what you consider nervous system indicators, thats the point!  There is an easy way to test wether its nerve or genuine muscle tightness though.

Rach will clear upwhat she ment regards the hamstring thing

you say that you didnt address it as you were busy treating your back, but you cant view problems as being specific to the area of pain, the body has to be looked at as a whole! 

dazc


ak88-  you wouldnt necessarily get any of the signs of what you consider nervous system indicators, thats the point!  There is an easy way to test wether its nerve or genuine muscle tightness though.

Rach will clear upwhat she ment regards the hamstring thing

Thats a fair point D r/e CNS stuff - IMO it can be a bit of a tightrope to walk though to diagnose over the internet (unless there are definitive simple tests - ATM my knowledge is pretty vague at best in this area of therapy/rehab).

you say that you didnt address it as you were busy treating your back, but you cant view problems as being specific to the area of pain, the body has to be looked at as a whole! 

Absolutely - although back pain was the presenting symptom - i was treating that physiological/somatic manifestation on a number of fronts to cover my bases if you like;

More posterior chain work - all the way from upper back down to hamstrings.
More stretching/soft tissue work all over.
More core work.
Optimising lift technique (squats inparticular, DL's to a lesser extent).

That was my plan of attack purely based on my own knowledge rather than a clinical diagnosis (for want or worse!) but it has helped massively.

So although i was only treating one 'area' of the problem if you like, the reason i focused on that is because it was/is a limiting factor in really getting enjoyment out of my training. I can deal with 5 minutes of careful movement in the morning to clear the inflammatory fluid from the affected tissues, but when i'm not able to squat or deadlift, or i'm getting pain throughout the day, it's physically and mentally quite debilitating.

Crap ankle mobility is merely an obstacle that i can work around training, and in time i'll probably address it (personally i think it's down to poor running technique during my adolescence so my achilles tendon/ankle region needs a bit of re-working). However - it's not something that prevents me from training hard, nor does it appear currently to cause any issues at present r/e enjoyment from training (well other than having tiny calves LOL). As such - i don't view it as a major problem.

Hope that makes sense!

good approach you have mate, you will make a good physio im sure.

i have seen a physio years ago for back problems, and their approach was nowhere near as thorough, and they were fully qualified, where your just starting out.  not to say thats tyical, just my experience.

I have the best possible care for any problems i have now, and access to the best intrinsic biomechanics knowledge there is    ;-)  

Unfortunately it does seem like a bit of a lottery on the type of physio you see and how well you'll be treated. Whether that comes down to their individual training, or how much information the patient gives/withholds from the physio, i don't know.

The basic premise of treatment is to find the root cause and provide treatment to bring back maximal/optimal movement. Some physios will see 'optimal' as day-to-day functioning and not give a stuff about sporting performance, whereas others (probably more involved in sport outside of their work) will be a bit more sympathetic and go the extra distance to help you get back where you want to be, rather than where their professional guidelines state they're required to go to.

This is probably where in many cases private treatment will be better than the NHS. If you're paying for something, you're more inclined to make sure its fixed!!

Ak_88

Incredible Bulk


i'm experiancing pain in the region the clavical meets the delts

tried swimming yesterday again and breast stroke feels like they are grinding away at this point.

other injury is my right pec where it ties into the sternum.
if i cough sometimes i get a stabbing pain there and when i tried to do dips the other day i felt the same pain? Been a few weeks

Sounds like the acromioclavicular (AC) joint - what sort of pain? Intermittent/constant? Ache/Sharp? Anything that changes the severity of it (i.e at waking, when training, post-training, night pain?).

 
hey nob rot, good to know you serve a purpose towards society, i was determined to have you sterilised and put on a desert island somewhere
 
It only hurts when doing something physical, otherwise its non exhistant. I can move my arms up and rotate my hands as if picking up something behind my head ok.
 
Its an ache when it does play up, dull dull ache.... dips put so much pressure on this area ATM that it aches too much to carry on beyond 6-7 reps. The moment i stop that movement it stops.

Charming

I'll have a ponder this afternoon and see what i can come up with.

Ak_88


Whilst i agree with you the body's very much a kinetic chain and everything will affect everything else -  you're not saying the hamstrings physically insert anywhere near the scapula or humerus i hope?

I've never really looked into my achilles tightness though - mainly because at the time i discovered it i was busy rehabbing my back problems! At present it doesn't cause me any problems so i've not really got any motivation to sort it out just yet.

I'm unsure if it would be nervous, as i can feel the point of resistance if i'm doing ankle mobility stuff, and it displays no 'classic' signs of nervous impingement (i.e pins and needles, shooting pains, unexplained weakness, etc).

I'm not saying your theory should be binned as i know the importance of the nervous system and it's potential to refer pain else where, but for me the symptoms are more indicative of a musculoskeletal problem rather than a nervous one

I've not had a proper look at your website just yet Rachel - when i get the little free time i have away from studying the last thing i can hack is putting more biomechanics and other learning into my head! I'll have a peruse later though.

Forgive me, yes I was suggesting that the hamstring inserts into the humerus in our terms but I will explain in more detail:
We are kinesiology experts which is basically Biomechanics. The systems of all the structures of the body impacting and effecting each other in kinetic chains or myofascial slings throughout the body, which is exactly what you mentioned earlier. 
Thomas Myers has written a book about the myofascial slings is quiet renowned in the industry and his courses are much sought after.
Anyway during our courses we explain that there is a chain effect that looks like this:
The left tibia crosses the back of the thigh into the ischial tuberosity, then through the sacro tuberous ligament in the back of the pelvis and into the thoraco lumba fascia in the lower back. From here it crosses into the lats of the opposite side and then the scapula and humerus of the right arm. With this in mind if you have an issue with your back it could be that it is coming from your shoulder or foot OR it could be the other way around and the pelvic, spinal problem(s) could actually be causing the dysfunction in the foot or shoulder or both!!
Our research has shown there is always a zig zag pattern formed by the dysfunction(s) so if you do not take into account fully all of the mechanics of the body and how to measure and correct them then 'treatment' for aches and pains that are not caused by trauma is only going to have a temporary effect as it does not address the Biomechanics fault that has caused it.
The technique I explained that is a muscle tension release exercise has very powerful effects on some of these dysfunctions and actually where often stretching is used to help 'thightness' it could be compounding the issue that is not 'tightness' but muscle tension.
hhhmmmm ... I find it very frustrating that I cannot show you what I am talking about or have a conversation with you to explain in depth!
 

Ak_88

dazc


ak88-  you wouldnt necessarily get any of the signs of what you consider nervous system indicators, thats the point!  There is an easy way to test wether its nerve or genuine muscle tightness though.

Rach will clear upwhat she ment regards the hamstring thing

Thats a fair point D r/e CNS stuff - IMO it can be a bit of a tightrope to walk though to diagnose over the internet (unless there are definitive simple tests - ATM my knowledge is pretty vague at best in this area of therapy/rehab).

you say that you didnt address it as you were busy treating your back, but you cant view problems as being specific to the area of pain, the body has to be looked at as a whole! 

Absolutely - although back pain was the presenting symptom - i was treating that physiological/somatic manifestation on a number of fronts to cover my bases if you like;

More posterior chain work - all the way from upper back down to hamstrings.
More stretching/soft tissue work all over.
More core work.
Optimising lift technique (squats inparticular, DL's to a lesser extent).

That was my plan of attack purely based on my own knowledge rather than a clinical diagnosis (for want or worse!) but it has helped massively.

So although i was only treating one 'area' of the problem if you like, the reason i focused on that is because it was/is a limiting factor in really getting enjoyment out of my training. I can deal with 5 minutes of careful movement in the morning to clear the inflammatory fluid from the affected tissues, but when i'm not able to squat or deadlift, or i'm getting pain throughout the day, it's physically and mentally quite debilitating.

Crap ankle mobility is merely an obstacle that i can work around training, and in time i'll probably address it (personally i think it's down to poor running technique during my adolescence so my achilles tendon/ankle region needs a bit of re-working). However - it's not something that prevents me from training hard, nor does it appear currently to cause any issues at present r/e enjoyment from training (well other than having tiny calves LOL). As such - i don't view it as a major problem.

Hope that makes sense!

Very sensible methods and great that they are working for you!
Is this an old issue with your back?
Poor running technique will be due to your biomechanics not the technique as such. It is the way your body is stacked up that creates the movement and so if you correct the biomechanics the technique would follow.
Daz is right about your knowledge and principles though - you will be one of those great physio's that people rave about!!

I can probably trace this injury back to ~December-January 2009 from memory. First incidence i remember of it was leg pressing and coming too deep, hence my hips were coming off the seat and all that pressure goes straight onto my spine. It wasn't a great machine for me to be using, the angle of pressing seemed a bugger considering i've got long legs.

Worked through it for a bit because i was clueless and didn't know what was going on - pain with squats (avoided for a while using a support belt), deads and bent over rows. Day to day pain was much worse in the morning, bending over to pick things up was pretty damn painful for a good while after that.

Eventually saw sense and dropped anything that was stressing my lower back to let it heal, although i didn't do anything different pre-hab wise. Took about 3 months away from the dodgy lifts and it seemed to heal up OK. Threw squats and bent over rows back into the mix with no real issues, deads still problematic, so left them be.

Got around to summer time and squatting got heavy again, went too heavy, put too much reliance on the belt and blew it out again. Thats when i'd had enough and went on a rehab frenzy. Took a good 3 months of doing the above work to get it back to 'gym' healthy, but it was well worth it.

I never got a formal diagnosis (because the likely outcome would've been stop training and take some anti-inflammatories!!), but i think theres some inflammation of the Sacroilliac area (as it tends to clear up in the morning after about 10-15 minutes of being mobile) and occassionally some irritation of what i assume is the sciatic nerve, this is quite rare though and very minor.

Still get some inflammation briefly in the morning, worse if i get a few bad nights sleep, but in general it's very manageable at present and is yet to keep me from Squats or Deadlifts if i warm up properly beforehand.

Ouch!
Well done for looking after yourself though. Most sensible bit was to lose the big lifts and stuff thats hurts.
There is potentially some muscle, nerve and joint release stuff you could do that might help further.
If you are not already I would also suggest you stick to symmetrical resistance work too.
Dont suppose you are going to the Body Expo NEC or the Muscletalk championships June 27th?
DazC and I are going to be at both

Currently for lower body stuff i tend not to stray away from bilateral stuff just for convenience more than anything - theres only a handful of things i really do non-DB stuff for nowadays.

It's unlikely ill be there unfortunately, as my course runs Feb to Feb rather than September to September i'll still be in the midst of my first semester a few weeks away from my first placement! A shame but priorities and all that, hoping to make 1 or 2 shows this year.

cool let us know which and we may catch you there!

Hi Rach

I have been told the problem with my right shoulder is a tear in the shoulder capsule.  I have been advised to avoid overhead movements, pull downs etc for 6 weeks and was given some exercises, basically to stretch the shoulder too.  I am about 4 weeks in now and not much improvement in the pain.  Can you recommend any other exercises/ treatments please?  Maybe easier to ask you next time you come to see James!

Thank you.