Biomechanics Q & A: Post your questions here

You should never force a foot position while squatting or any other exercises, as the feet should be allowed to fall naturally where they want to go in relation to your pelvic alignment - otherwise forcing a position could set you up for injury.
 
BUT you need to find out what is happening, not only at your pelvis, but also your feet.
It is a shame, and i find it a little strange, that your orthotist has refused to prescribe orthotics just because your not nursing injuries!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?
I would have thought the idea of avoiding injury would be much more sensible!!!
Blimey.....
 
So I should find someone who can assess your foot and ankle biomechanics & who will prescribe foot support for prevention of injuries rather than waiting for you to be injured to offer the support. 
 
Hope this makes sense and if you want some help in finding someone let me know or come to nottm and I will for it for you

Rachfit

Ak_88


Couple more ponderings from me Rach

1) Do you address respiratory drills or breathing techniques within ITS? I was reading a few things recently and it's crazy how much poor breathing technique can affect posture and vice versa.

2) I've been squatting for a couple of weeks now, just 60kg, using my ironworks to give me better leverage and to the correct breakpoint. The only issue as I've mentioned previously is the external rotation of my right hip; meaning that although I start with feet at say 10 and 2, by the end of the set unless I readjust it ends up being 10 and 2.5.

Question is; if I were to increase the load, is this likely to just reinforce further pelvic dysfunction, or would I be safe to start adding more to the bar?

1). No but we are trialing the Powerbreathe at the moment for the company.

2). Until I re0screen you we dont know what is happening at your pelvis so its guess work mate. I would suggest you let your feet do what they want when you squat as they will be compensating for anything further up. Dont add weight until I have seen you mate

 
Only just came back in here after seeing this; thanks.
 
Not sure if it's on your scope of knowledge; but does the powerbreathe address potential breathing mechanics issues or just strengthen the present pattern?
 
E.g - Some people will breathe diaphragmatically, whilst others may rely on accessory muscles more; so in essence, strengthening the latter would be akin to strengthening further dysfunction potentially, because you're not using the ideal muscles (the scalenes, SCM, upper traps etc, as opposed to what should be predominantly the diaphragm).
 
Just something to consider!

Rach is on holiday this week, back at weekend.
 
Interesting question, how are the articles etc about breathing measuring what % of the power is being generated at the diaphram and what % is coming from other muscles? 
 
whos to say what the % should be?
 
they may be accessory muscles, but they have their place in forced inhalation, and expansion of the ribcage, so in heavier/forced breathing i would expect them to be used more than in low level, and resting breaths?

Rachfit


You should never force a foot position while squatting or any other exercises, as the feet should be allowed to fall naturally where they want to go in relation to your pelvic alignment - otherwise forcing a position could set you up for injury.

BUT you need to find out what is happening, not only at your pelvis, but also your feet.
It is a shame, and i find it a little strange, that your orthotist has refused to prescribe orthotics just because your not nursing injuries!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?
I would have thought the idea of avoiding injury would be much more sensible!!!
Blimey.....

So I should find someone who can assess your foot and ankle biomechanics & who will prescribe foot support for prevention of injuries rather than waiting for you to be injured to offer the support. 

Hope this makes sense and if you want some help in finding someone let me know or come to nottm and I will for it for you

 
A friend of mine has taken me to see a cordwainer who specialises in orthotics, usually for much more serious and complication orthopaedic leg/foot problems - but who says he is pretty sure he can do something with me. He looked at the custom footbeds and even the prototype orthotics I've been given elsewhere, and explained why they are flawed. Says the ones he'll make will hold my rear foot in such a position as to prevent the rolling inwards. Took walking impressions and will have them made up in ten days or so. Even given me a money-back guarantee (my friend is a good customer of his).
 
In the meantime I'm not worrying about my foot stance too much, just doing what comes naturally.

GN
 
Thats great news my friend and especially about the money back guarentee.
NOw the important things is to continue working with your biomechaniics coach and if this foot guy is as good as your friend recommends then he should be happy to work with your biomechanics coach to help to get you to where you need to be mate.
what this means is that your foot support may well change with your biomechanics depending upon how much dysfunction is coming from your feet and how much is coming form your pelvis, neither of which any of us can know until we start working together with you.
 
if you can introduce the 2 professionals this will be an exciting project for them both (and you too) I am sure!!!!!
 
PLEASE keep me posted still mate!!!

AK_88 as Dazc says I am in Spain at the moment and so dont have access to the information to be able to answer your question as I would like to mate.
will be back to answer next week

dazc


Rach is on holiday this week, back at weekend.

Interesting question, how are the articles etc about breathing measuring what % of the power is being generated at the diaphram and what % is coming from other muscles? 

whos to say what the % should be?

they may be accessory muscles, but they have their place in forced inhalation, and expansion of the ribcage, so in heavier/forced breathing i would expect them to be used more than in low level, and resting breaths?

yes I am not sure how you would accurately measure the difference. The % will differ from person to person too surely as with the link to their biomechanics!?
 

It's not an area I have a great deal of knowledge in; but my thinking is that similarly to your stabiliser's (cuff or core) and the larger extrinsic prime movers, work of breathing shared between the diaphragm and accessory muscles can influence a lot of things.
 
EG - You may breathe diaphragmatically at rest, but during vigorous activity if your diaphragm ('stabiliser' for the sake of debate) isn't sufficiently conditioned then the accessory muscles ('prime movers') will take the bulk of the work.
 
The result may lead to SCM, scalenes, upper traps etc shortening, tightening up, and becoming more postural breathing muscles than phasic; you can see this in individuals who's inhalation causes the upper rib cage to expand and elevate, versus the belly and lower rib cage to only expand.
 
Therefore, you may have issues occurring around the thoracic spine through poor breathing patterns, rather than poor movement patterns.
 
Anyway; what I was thinking about was that if you are primed to use your accessory muscles during more vigorous inhalation (because your diaphragm is poorly conditioned to tolerate increased work of breathing), then using a powerbreathe may strengthen (i.e worsen) this dysfunction. So, in a 'normalise' sort of way, you'd want to first improve the contribution from the diaphragm before strengthening it, rather than just strengthening the already dominant accessory muscles.
 
I think the relationships between posture, breathing mechanics and overall functional mechanics are more important than a lot of people would realise, hence it's something I intend on looking into more in the future.

^^^ would be quite simple to take out traps, scalene etc  when using the powerbreath, by relaxing those muscles, and concentrating on allowing the breathing to come from the stomach, IE allowing it to expand with breathing.
 
BUT, then during exercises you need to be conditioned to breath while braced, not relaxed in the abdominals etc.
 
Also, i very much doubt that heavy breating using the accessory muscles that allow forced inhalation through ribcage expansion will cause shortening and lead to problems, because inside any training and biomechanics program those muscles will also be exercised through full range and, especially traps, kept free of subclinical spasm and shortening, as its part of the assessments.
 
it may be linked, but gut feeling is its unlikely to be very problematic for all but a very small group of people breathing heavily and performing certain moves.
 
for everyone else, i would say that cardio performance alongside a good training programe and biomechanics correction and monitoring will overall be far more beneficial than getting bogged down in something that is likely to have little benefit for the majority of trainers.
 
 

also, it depeneds wether you class using accessory muscles to add to breathing capacity a bad thing or not, before you can talk about it as a 'dysfunction'
 
im not so sure it is?

Simple it might be to take them out of the equation when using the Powerbreathe, but that accounts for a tiny fraction of the overall breaths per day. If you're an upper chest breather then there's postural reliance on those muscles; I couldn't say (not opposing, just genuinely don't know!) whether adding length and preventing spasm is sufficient to change the recruitment patterns; since the default when work of breathing increases is to expand and elevate the ribcage rather than contract the diaphragm with greater force or frequency.
 
I'm personally just going off the general muscle imbalance theory; poor posture leads to shortening and hypertonicity of X Y and Z muscles which then has a knock on to function, then returns to affect structure and the cycle begins again.
 
That's just how I see it though; I'm not saying it 100% does or doesn't impact things, but it seems something a lot of people are embracing of late, so it may have some weight in the grand scheme of things.

Ak_88


I couldn't say (not opposing, just genuinely don't know!) whether adding length and preventing spasm is sufficient to change the recruitment patterns; since the default when work of breathing increases is to expand and elevate the ribcage rather than contract the diaphragm with greater force or frequency.

sorry mate, i didnt say that 'adding length or preventing spasm'  would change the breating patterns.  i was merely countering your assumption that using those muscles to breath would lead to them becoming shortened, which im not sure it would.  SO i was giving a reason why i didnt see it as a problem.
 
ALSO, to add to that point and further address others you make, total breaths per day will be high yes, but is the person in question likely to use forced inhalation for more than a small % of the day, i would argue not.  so most of the day is likely to be largely relaxed diaphram breathing.  And, even if a larger % of the day was spent breathing heavily and using the accessory muscles, the loading on them is  very small compared to say weighted exercises using small ROM, so the potential change in length is IMO likely to be much smaller, than say short ROM weighted exercises which can be problematic over time.
 
the powerbreath people will likely have some data on whats happening when using their kit.
 
But outside that, i think you are trying to apply what happens to muscles in a loaded fairly low rep situation to a relatively unloaded and comparatively extremely high rep situation, and i dont think the two could be considered the same.
 
and id still like to see some research that points to assistance muscles being used for forced inhalation under heavy breating  being an incorrect pattern, because im not so sure it is!  they assist in ribcage expansion for a reason IMO, and i cant see why you would want to try stop because forced inhalation will lead to greater lung volumes, and therefore more oxygen being taken in during times of extreme demand.
 
What situation are you thinking where it would be a problem, then i can more fully understand your train of thought?  what problems are being touted as an effect of it?
 
 

sorry havnt responded about power breathe - just not had time to look into it AK_88 but will do as soon as i find time.
 
am just finishing a squat article with some photos (not sure exactly when it will be complete) but it is one of those things that seems like a good idea and then you start and it becomes a much bigger job than you initially expected. so it may result in several squat topics being covered over time as they all influence each other . I know what you MT lot are like and I want to try and answer as many questions as possible that have been coming up regularly on MT
 
P.S. also watch this space for an exciting project coming up
 

I can't wait for this exciting project Rachfit!
My gut instinct tells me it's going to be worthwhile...

Sciatic


I can't wait for this exciting project Rachfit!
My gut instinct tells me it's going to be worthwhile...

hahaha pressure is on then eh!!

In a word YES! lol

Just want to clarify something :
 
BIOMECHANICS : this is a science that has been around for many many years. The science of studying human movement and performance externally, including forces, vectors, lever arms, angles etc
 
BIOMECHANICS COACH : this is a professional who's skills involve the ability to screen an individuals potential risk of injury by moving and observing their clients internal neuro-musculoskeletal system with a kinesiologist view point.
 
The point is they are different

Spent the last few days reading around spinal stability and some of the work of McGill, Gracovetsky and Chek. Got a few musings and questions if you can fill the gaps in Rach?
 
1) The basis of the 'inner core' (diaphragm, Trans Ab, Multifidus, Posterior Oblique & Pelvic Floor) seems to focus upon attenuating/controlling the compressive forces applied to the spine to provide effective stability and lifting performance. Are the same anatomical mechanisms/processes used for shearing forces too, or do these differ (i.e is there additional reading to be done here?)
 
2) I read the following from this article;
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_be_back_strong_and_beltless_part_1
 
"The synergistic action of the TVA and IO produce a characteristic hoop tension through the thoracolumbar fascia (TLF),(Figure 4) which has been shown to create an extension force on the lumbar spine.(8,17). This is referred to as thoracolumbar fascia gain. TLF gain is thought to be an important element, buffering the transfer of force between the muscular and ligamentous systems during forward bending or rising from a forward bent position. The point at which the force transfer occurs is called the critical point, occurring at approximately 90% lumbar flexion.(17)"
 
The bit that confuses me is the last two sentences; is it a case of the TLF serves to spare stress on the ligamentous system as force is transferred to it from the muscular system at what is pretty much end-range lumbar flexion (whether moving into or from this position of extreme flexion?).
 
3) Do you think the hydraulic amplifier effect is the biggest contributor to generating extensor moments of the three systems? It seems like the TLF and IAP components are primarily aimed at stability, but the nature of this method seems best placed to support and enhance the production of extension forces.
 
4) With the outer core systems/slings (deep longitudinal, anterior & posterior oblique, and lateral) responsible for both generating purposeful movement and decelerating forces applied to the body to help the inner core and spare the more passive spinal structure, I've had a few thoughts from a structural balance perspective.
 
Taking the posterior oblique sling for example, is it tangible that excessive training of the lats (and therefore shortening them) will increase the tension across the lats, into the thoracolumbar fascia, and in turn inhibit the glutes by lengthening them?
Been quite eye-opening reading all this, unfortunately none of which was covered during my MSc! It seems like training the inner and outer core in synergy should be what 'functional traning' should really be about, and then topping up where necessary with strength training/olympic type movements. 

That's all I go for now, but I'm sure more will come. Feels like a big case of learn more, know less right now!
 

Anyone home?

sorry mate been away for a few days!!!

• 1). no its the same mechanism

• 2).no it doesnt spare stress in the ligaments, the TFL works with the ligs, muscles etc to transmit the loads together through all the systems

• 3). I dont think anone knows the answer to that, they all work together to do pretty much everything

• 4). no evidence that strengthening a muscle will shorten it, assuming working through full range

• does this help?