Clenbuterol

Hi Osagi,
That's really interesting about Ephedrine, I'll look it up
cheers for all your help guys - you really know your stuff
lolx

I would be careful though about looking at demonising Eph in an alarmist fashion. Literally thousands and thousands around the world regularly use eph as a leitimate aid to fat loss. If used sensibly, it has an amazing safety profile and results are comparable with prescription meds such as Xenical and Meridia. The FDA (Food & Drug Admin) in the US banned ephedra alkaloid products from sale in 2004 amid concerns over its safety profile. The tiny proportion of cases cited to justify their cause were extreme to say the least. Cases such as a college sportsperson who used ephedrine then trained out in the hot sun all day long with little to no water. The cynics amonst us might say that the pharmaceutical giants who market drugs such as Meridia and Xenical may have "leant" on the FDA to impose such a ban on Ephedra; It stands to reason - Massively reduce the public's spending on proven over the counter products such as eph means a massive increase in the filling of prescriptions for their own prescription only drugs, even though results are shown to be comparable in human studies. You might say this is a wild consiracy theory. But we're not talking peanuts here; The annual spend on eph based products in the U.S. was over $2 billion!

The FDA ruling has since been overturned in the courts as common sense appeared to prevail but we (they) are now left in no-mans land as the situation bounces from one court hearing/appeal to the next. The FDA appear to still be enforcing the original ban at this time.

ORIGINAL: PartyBoy

I would be careful though about looking at demonising Eph in an alarmist fashion. Literally thousands and thousands around the world regularly use eph as a leitimate aid to fat loss. If used sensibly, it has an amazing safety profile and results are comparable with prescription meds such as Xenical and Meridia.

Thats the key tho isn't it PB, if used sensibly the drug is both relatively safe and effective. However as I alluded to in my post I was alarmed to hear just how much eph is being abused by non training members of the public, typically middle aged women looking for a slimming quick fix, non of whom I've actually spoken to were even aware that the drug is potentially dangerous if taken in high volumes / excess.

So I'd like to think that an article pointing out the safety concern with this growing fad targeted at the particular audience it's to be aimed at (ie middle aged women) would be very beneficial.

Osagi

Yes mate. The problem as I see it stems from the diabolical situation that has stemmed from the U.S. "WE MUST PROTECT OUR KIDS" paranoia. What the FDA original ruling has done has pretty much wiped out the legitimate eph based over the counter supps that had clear, and almost always, good sensible dosing schedules. Now what we have is ppl obtaining eph hcl legitimately or from the black market which comes with no guidelines at all regarding dosing so what they are all deciding to take if they haven't access to a resource such as Muscletalk, is anyone's guess.

ORIGINAL: PartyBoy

Yes mate. The problem as I see it stems from the diabolical situation that has stemmed from the U.S. "WE MUST PROTECT OUR KIDS" paranoia. What the FDA original ruling has done has pretty much wiped out the legitimate eph based over the counter supps that had clear, and almost always, good sensible dosing schedules. Now what we have is ppl obtaining eph hcl legitimately or from the black market which comes with no guidelines at all regarding dosing so what they are all deciding to take if they haven't access to a resource such as Muscletalk, is anyone's guess.

Yep, totally agree. Seriously mate it really is frightening when you learn of the abuse that is going on as a result of this seemingly widespread ingorance towards the side effects.

As such Sally if you read this, maybe if your article could be put together in a way that highlights the fact that its more peoples ingonorance toward to the drug rather than the drug itself which is the real danger. this could be backed up by refering to the drugs intended purpose for which it is perfectly safe. again its the abuse that is the problem here and this abuse comes about mainly as a result of peoples ingorance toward the facts, ie dabbling with things which they know very little about.

Osagi

I have to say guys that I have found Eph more effective than Clen recently..... tried a two weeks Clen / two weeks Eph cycle for a number of weeks and was doing the same amount of cardio / same diet. Lost more on the Eph than the Clen but my muscles definitely felt harder on the Clen.

Not sure if this was a psychological thing as my general understanding is that clen provides no steroidal type effects - Financially though, the 'Pound to Eph' exchange rate is far better than the 'Pound to Clen' - My advice ? Stick with the Eph.

Did you find that Eph suppressed your appetite more and thats why you lost more on it?

ORIGINAL: wheycasein

Did you find that Eph suppressed your appetite more and thats why you lost more on it?

Nope, the only thing that suppresses my appetite is Amphet. Didn't feel any less inclined to eat with either Eph / Clen. I'm just a gannet really

Ok i have both clen and eph on the way to help me with my cut:

My diet and cardio have been nailed and fully approved by Toxic, James ect

I plan on doing this up until 12th August when i go on my hols:

Week 1 & 2:
Clen, taper up 1, 2,3 etc.. then 7 each day. with 3-5g Taurine & 200-400mg potassium each day

Week 3& 4:
EPH 30mg taper up to 3 times a day, with 200MG caffine each day.. no asprin

Week 5 & 6:
Repeat week 1 & 2 with a taper up maybe from 5 at the start

Week 7 & 8:
Same as week 3 & 4

etc...

Up until my hols.. prob around 10 weeks or so in total

Does this look ok to you guys?

Also, do i take caffine with eph 3 times a day, or only take the caffine with the dose before training?

Also what way will i do cardio, if i stick to normal cycling pace, will my heart rate not hit the roof and go catabolic?

Cheers in advance!!!

You can take the caffeine 3 times though you may wish to lower the dose of both eph and caff at last dose if you have trouble sleeping

You should notice cardio is easier allowing for better performance with a lower perceived effort. Works well for HIIT style cardio

Good stuff.. so do you think a 45/60 min walk in the morning yield sufficient fat burning results?

Does my plan look ok to you PartyBoy?

Should be ok if its a brisk walk. Plan looks fine

Sorry to bother you,

When im taking eph 3 times a day, can i take 200mg caffine 3 times a day as well??????????

Is it 40mcg a day continuously for anticatabolic effects or 2 on a day off?

And do you have to taper up to 40mcg and down again when coming off?

THanks

Surfer

has anybody took clen during pct after a mass cycle. if so what dosage and was it worth taking thanks for any replys

Sorry to hijack this post fellas but I have a quick Clen question..............

Does anyone know if it is OK to mix with Prozac? Have a friend who is prescribed Prozac and I didn't know whether there would be any dangerous sides from mixing it with Clen? I can't think of any reason why myself..........................??

Once again sorry to interupt!! Any advice appreciated!!

D

ORIGINAL: Stilts

Does anyone know if it is OK to mix with Prozac? Have a friend who is prescribed Prozac and I didn't know whether there would be any dangerous sides from mixing it with Clen? I can't think of any reason why myself..........................??

Courtesy of Drab4:

Hi mate, yes they can be taken together with no problems, several people I know have done this

A few of the side effects can be increased though, such as dry mouth

Just keep a watch on yourself and reduce clen dose if needed

hey PB

just wonderin if you advise on taking taurine with clen at 3-5 grams a day??

is it needed or optional, if optional what are the benefits??

thanks

YG

ORIGINAL: PartyBoy

I would be careful though about looking at demonising Eph in an alarmist fashion. Literally thousands and thousands around the world regularly use eph as a leitimate aid to fat loss. If used sensibly, it has an amazing safety profile and results are comparable with prescription meds such as Xenical and Meridia.

This interests me, as in the Nutrition section Toxic was commenting on how it is only of a very small help indeed in terms of calorie management (I'd still take it just for the energy boost you see and I think he'd agree on that).

Yes it is true that the pharmalogical action of Eph will not have a huge effect on calorie expenditure. However, results are more than favourable when compared to the likes of Xenical by virtue of other ephedrine effects such as appetite suppression which will drive down calorie intake and thus increase rate of fat loss.