First cycle for a Rugby Player

Hey, I'm just after abit of advice for a cycle I'm planning in the next couple of months. I've spent about 5-6months so far researching the different compounds and pct protocols.

First of all, my stats:

23years old, 5' 11, 94kg, approx. 14% bf (using calipers, hopefully they're accurate). Training for 3-4years.

Max Lifts:
Sq: 160x3
DL: 205x3
C&P: 115x1
Bench: 125x3

I know they're are a couple of rugby players on this board (The West, Celt) so hopefully some of you guys can share your input.

I'd be very happy with a 5kg gain of LBM, strength is just as, if not more important than size. I've looked into hdrol, epi, sd, tren, pplex etc. I like the idea of a short sd cycle, but the prospect of cramping and lethargy is abit of a no no as I'll still be carrying out alot of CV work. Also how likely is gyno post cycle? I've read info with regards to using nolva or clomid for pct, yet there doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer.

Epi would nice but I'd have to buy two bottles of the stuff and could work out costly.

It had also been suggested to look into a pplex/tren stack. I'm not as clued up on pheraplex and from what I've read, seems to affect people different, some blow up like a balloon, some find it better for lean gains. However the lack of lethargy does appeal to me.

I'll be able to source a SERM, but is the decision between nolva/clomid dependant upon the choice of compound? I understand they work differently, though without experience, not sure how they work in real world situations. So guys, what I'm asking is, which DS would suit me best? I'd like to achieve strength primarily, size is an added bonus. Not fussed about bloat, I'm pretty strict on my diet, cramping I suppose I could live with, though lethargy and gyno are my main concerns.

Thanks in advance chaps.

pplex/tren stack is great, i ran this for 6 weeks. Gotta say though back and shin pumps were fairly bad and if your playing rugby then this could be a real nuisance.

SD, well you kinda ruled that out yourself.

Epi is the one id probably suggest, strength and size gains wont be outta this world but they'll gradually come without effecting cardio. 2 bottles of epi wont break the bank.

Regards a serm, i've gone with clomid on SD, and nolva on anything else.

OFFICIAL CHEAPUKSUPPLEMENTS.COM REPRESENTATIVE

Thanks for the reply shane.

Epi may be the way forward. I've just checked on predator nutrition looking at 4/5 different varieties of Epi. The chemical formulae seems to vary between the Chapparall labs stuffs/CEL/IBE.

Also, would anyone be so kind as to explain the difference between the following two products, other than the price?

http://www.predatornutr...d-epivol-90-capsules.cfm
http://www.predatornutr.../pd-epi-120-capsules.cfm

Cheers!

I THINK the first link epivol consists of epi/tren, whereas link two is plain epi.

OFFICIAL CHEAPUKSUPPLEMENTS.COM REPRESENTATIVE

Ah right, mybad. Totally misread the description.

So, I think my options now are:

Run Epivol for 4weeks (30mg Epi / 90mg Tren ed)

-or-

Run 'EPI' for 6weeks (30mg ed)


I like the idea of the strength gains from the tren, but would the stack be ok as a first cycle? Also would this effect the way I approached PCT at all, opposed to just running epistane standalone?


Thanks again.

Hi Backrow

If its your first cycle I'd seriously recommend waiting until the end of the season to run it. For me the intensity of rugby with steroids leads to breathlessness at times, and my performance is hampered. Having played other sports its not the same with them, rugby as you know can be so intense, so a 20m burst followed by the tussle and resulting ruck/maul can leave you breathless when on a steroid cycle. So I'd wait until May and go for it then, run a cycle between end of season and start of pre-season.

If you're determined to go ahead anyway, epistane would be a good choice to start, and in your position I'd personally run a 40mg ed cycle for 6 weeks, followed by the serm of your choice for pct.

You probably have your training cycles nailed as it is, but my advice if you want it would be to focus on volume during the cycle if you run it between seasons, perhaps trying GVT (German Volume Training). That way you can use the cycle to build up size, I wouldn't worry so much about the strength (although it will build anyway) as when you go into pct you can then change focus toward strength and power (heavier weights), you should have built some muscle while on cycle that will now help to lift your strength and power, in an optimal timing for next season. Similarly, any fat gained whilst on the cycle from suitable calorie excess to grow, will be burned off through the preseason regime.

Celt! Just the man.

Thanks for the reply. My season is effectively over in 4-5weeks as I'll be moving house, therefore clubs too! So my plan was to be in tip top shape before pre-season at my new club. However, I'd still like to be to maintain some level or aerobic fitness, be it the odd 2-3mile jog couple times a week, hence why I wouldn't be keen with insane pumps associated with SD.

As for 40mg ED, would you suggest ramping up the dose for the first few days? PCT, I was looking at the standard protocol suggested on this site; i.e. day 1 60mg, day 2-11 40mg, day 12-21 20mg. I trust this would do the job?

I'm quite on the ball with periodization, so I'd be training high volume for the duration of the cycle anyway. Followed by a period of 5x5 or 3x5, before moving into the blessed phase of 'power triples and doubles'

Good stuff mate, sounds a good plan

I wouldn't ramp the dosage, I'd just go for 40mg ed from day 1. Given your size I think 30mg would be too low, you may find the same for 40mg but I think it should be about right. Traditional wisdom suggests dosing each cap equally apart across the day, but for 40mg personally I run two caps on waking and the other two 12 hours later, makes for easier dosing and I don't believe it would have any meaningful efect on gains.

Agree with your idea on the pumps, you should be able to keep the cardio up with epi at 40mg ed, there should be no problem for running.

As for pct, I prefer a lower dosing protocol nowadays; trainers running 12 week test cycles use nolva at those doses and from my experience of cycles up to 8 weeks I've found recovery pretty swift on all cycles up to 6-7 weeks, with heavier suppression after that point only. For that reason I'd run nolva at 40mg days 1-3, followed by around 20 days at 20mg ed.

Greatstuff, thanks Celt, your a true Gent.

Last question if I may regarding ancillary products. Yay or nay? Would Milk Thistle suffice or shall I go for a specialist cycle support product?

I do remember you advocating lower nolva dosages before, although I struggled to find exact details when I searched earlier. Those dosages should be fine for my recovery then, no requirements for futher 'natural testerone boosters' or 'cortisol control yada yada' ?

I promise that the bombardment of questions is over after these ones! I'll be going for 2 bottles of IBE's epi then.

Not a problem mate

Ancillaries - personally I don't. Hydration is very important on cycle (as it is at all times for a rugby player anyway) - I drink around 8-10 pints of water a day on cycle depending on training. Ancillaries really are up to you, I don't personally believe there to be too great a risk to the body from what I would consider 'sensible' cycles, ran at sensible distance apart.

I don't tend to run anything else in pct, certainly not test boosters. What I do run regularly, in pct and at other times, is Albuterol. There are various threads worth reading if you do a search on it in the OPEDs forum on MT. It is mildly anabolic, non hormonal (ie not a steroid), it controls cortisol, and its good for endurance - its a favourite of mine for rugby, and I tend to run at 16mg ed for 6 weeks at a time (2 x 8mg caps per day). Its a POM so like serms is best bought from internet pharmacies (its actually the active drug in Ventolin inhalers).

well lol. i cant really add anything to celt's input :)
although is that right, celt? you dont run any steroidal compounds during the season?

last year when i broke my leg, after a few months when i was abck in the gym firing on all cylinders, but stil not match fit i tried superdrol. the strength and mass gains were impressive, but it did kill my ability to do cardio and i felt like a zombie the last 2 weeks.
i am currently using pheraplex, and i cant say it has affected my cardio at all.

I've cut right back West - I always used to run during season but I honestly believe now that game performance (specifically the ability to recover quickly from intense patches) suffers on nearly all steroids, for me at least.

Funnily enough, pplex is the one I've found best and I have ran the odd cycle in season with minimal effect, although I do find some hinderance over 30mg ed, so I stick to that dose.

I'll be interested to hear if you still have no major effect on rugby after week 3/4 - it does increase as a cycle goes on for me.

Thanks for the replies guys, really helpful thanks.

I've looked into Albuterol, can't believe I've not heard of it before. I do suffer from mild asthma so would definately be worth considering. The only problem is the site I've found/trust for my SERM doesn't sell it, and I'd like to avoid being buggered on more international carriage fees Back to the search then.

No support products it is then, and I'll look into adding albuterol for my pct.

Just to clarify, epi @ 40mg ed from day 1? I've not found many others run it at this dose, and bigger guys running 30mg for 6weeks or 40mg for 4weeks, my main concern is that I don't want to overdo for my first cycle. But if the experts believe it's fine then I'm more than happy to take your word for it!

Scrap that, I've found a place I can pickup both, and cheaper too.

Starting to look forward to this now Will put in my order for everything next week I think.

Goodluck for the coming cycle mate. I'll be interested to see what shape you can get in for pre-season.

Backrow

 Just to clarify, epi @ 40mg ed from day 1? I've not found many others run it at this dose, and bigger guys running 30mg for 6weeks or 40mg for 4weeks, my main concern is that I don't want to overdo for my first cycle. But if the experts believe it's fine then I'm more than happy to take your word for it!

I would personally, I don't consider 40mg of epi for 6 weeks to be particularly harsh cycle. If you were to find sides becoming uncomfortable on cycle you can always cut it at 4 or 5 weeks.

Thanks guys. Epi/Nolva/Volmax ordered on Monday so I'll be starting in a few weeks time. Will try and keep this thread updated with how I'm getting on.

Hi guys,

Not to completely hijack Backrow's thread here but this applies to me also. This is my first post but I'm a longtime lurker.

Anyway, fellow rugby player here. I weigh in at 100kg at around 15% BF and looking to put on some extra mass for next season. I have been lifting consistently for around 8yrs and have stalled somewhat of late. As a result I've been researching PH's considering a cycle of Epistane, Cynostane or Epivol. No previous experience with any PH/DS or gear/

My decision to go this route is based on the best gains from minimal sides (or so I've read), my only reservation is the fact I can't seem to source a SERM. Given this caveat which of the above would be recommended? and will OTC PCT be sufficient - there seem to be lots of conflicting information on this subject?

Finally, at my BW I take it I would have to run the above prohormones at the higher end of recommendations? Epi @ 40mg per day for example?

Any thoughts / help on this would be much appreciated.

Backrow


Scrap that, I've found a place I can pickup both, and cheaper too.

Starting to look forward to this now Will put in my order for everything next week I think.

Heya mate, would you be able to PM me that site - im starting an IBE Epi cycle at the beginning of March and I've got similar stats to you. Looking forward to some more serious gains after a lengthy plateau

Any opinions on my post above chaps?

Is 40mg Epistane @ my BW too much, some user opinions would be useful. This will be my first cycle as stated above.

Also looking to source some Nolva thought not sure if I can at the minute - OTC PCT opinions would be welcomed too.