Formula 1 2009 season

Could have been worse I suppose. I wouldn't be surprised though if new evidence did conveniently emerge!

Interesting... I thought this was all sorted anyway?
Oh well, its done now and a suspended ban is nothing unless they cheat again. Onwards and upwards now!

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

So they've essentially gotten off scot-free. I wasn't expecting that.

Will Lewis have to wear an ankle tag for 12 months?

looks like tomorrow is going to be a very good race!  what the hell are ferrari, and more particularly kimi playing at.  They need to sack him and get someone in who wants to do well and whos head is in the race.

The bbc coverage has been really good, was watching on the red button earlier, and they had a history film, was highlights from 7 or 8 gps over the last 20 odd years.   was great to watch, see how the track, cars and noise has changed.  had mansell fighting with senna, so close to taking him over the line!  Damm the cars look weird now, remember at the time they looked awesome,  now it looks like the driver is way too far forwards!

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Unfortunately i missed the first 2 parts of qualifying and just caught the top 10 shoot out. What happened to Kimi? I cant understand how Massa can be so far up there with the other car so far behind it....????
Whats the deal with the Mclarens aswell? Poor showing from both cars on the day thats meant to be the big turn around????
Ive been really busy this week and not followed any coverage of the F1 at all apart from the shoot out today and ive been back at work from then until now.

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

Red Man


Unfortunately i missed the first 2 parts of qualifying and just caught the top 10 shoot out. What happened to Kimi? I cant understand how Massa can be so far up there with the other car so far behind it....????
Whats the deal with the Mclarens aswell? Poor showing from both cars on the day thats meant to be the big turn around????
Ive been really busy this week and not followed any coverage of the F1 at all apart from the shoot out today and ive been back at work from then until now.

 
You must have enjoyed that last lap by button though??? ha ha!  get on the red button and you should be able to watch it all again

honestly, i think kimi has lost it.  Him and massa are both championship leading drivers, ok so the car isnt on it, but look at masa to see what the car can do, then look at kimi.  Soon as he gets a chance the overalls are off, and hes off out of the garage, you would expect him to be there all the time.  I think hes given up and resigned to not placing.  ferrari surely cant let him carry on like that, its making a mockery of the sponsors
 
ferrari are moaning like mad about the forthcoming budget caps, yet look what good all that money is doing them right now!
 
All the cars have brought new aero packages, but so have brawn!  I think people put way more importance onto the triple rear diffuser than it actually made for those first races.  I think those cars running it just had a better package all round.
 
 

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Red Man


Unfortunately i missed the first 2 parts of qualifying and just caught the top 10 shoot out. What happened to Kimi? I cant understand how Massa can be so far up there with the other car so far behind it....????
Whats the deal with the Mclarens aswell? Poor showing from both cars on the day thats meant to be the big turn around????
Ive been really busy this week and not followed any coverage of the F1 at all apart from the shoot out today and ive been back at work from then until now.

Kimi thought he had done enough, much like Massa back on Malaysia IIRC, but it wasn't.

Mclaren haven't brought as much updates this week as many of the other teams, and with catalunya being a high downforce circuit the Mclaren is struggling here.

dazc

All the cars have brought new aero packages, but so have brawn!  I think people put way more importance onto the triple rear diffuser than it actually made for those first races.  I think those cars running it just had a better package all round.
 

Yup just look at redbull for example, they don't even have a triple rear diffuser yet and are easily 2nd best team this year.

McClaren arnt bringing any new updates now so I hear, neither are Ferrari till they know whats happining next year, still thining that most of the teams want to move away from the FIA and set up their own gov body.

 can understand the spending cap thing, its a ridiculous set of ideas.

Basic setup, we bring the most money to the sport, yet thats going to penilise us...yea great.

And Kimi, as most have said, is a dick, personality of a brick, and why on earth anyone would want to sponsor such a person is beyond me, considering he doesnt even like talking about the race after even if he wins.

cu3ed


McClaren arnt bringing any new updates now so I hear, neither are Ferrari till they know whats happining next year, still thining that most of the teams want to move away from the FIA and set up their own gov body.

can understand the spending cap thing, its a ridiculous set of ideas.

Basic setup, we bring the most money to the sport, yet thats going to penilise us...yea great.

And Kimi, as most have said, is a dick, personality of a brick, and why on earth anyone would want to sponsor such a person is beyond me, considering he doesnt even like talking about the race after even if he wins.

but i dont think they will make it work.  Cant see them getting most of the other teams to do what they want and go back to racing where any amount of money, testing, engines etc etc can be used.  why would they?  they have limited budgets and are making the best use of it, ferrari are proving just how useless they are at actually organising themselfs when they cant use their unlimited resources ie to do massive amounts of testing.
 
So at best they would have another two teams, no way the likes of brawn, red bull, force india, are going to move.  They just wouldnt generate the revenue that they do now.  Cant see sponsors being happy with it either.
 
Ferrari just want things to go their own way and have them winning.  They have had the same amount of time as everyone else, and a much bigger budget to come up with a competitive car, and they couldnt manage it.

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What is this new team all about? F1US or something...

Isnt the USA grand prix dead and buried now? Would this mean a possible return to the states???

After that tyre fiasco where 5-6 cars finished the race a few years ago, i cant see the yanks entertaining it again... Maybe im wrong, anyone heard anything?

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

Its USF1 Red Man. Its one of the new teams entering next year. There isnt any plans on F1 returning to USA at the minute.

I dont see how you can bash Kimi. Im obviously biased as ive been a fan for years but just as the man doesnt like the spotlight as much as some of the other drivers doesnt mean he has the personality of a brick. He has said himself before the only part of F1 he likes is the racing and doesnt like the spotlight.

Tbf, im a Raikonnen fan, always have been....
However, this year he has been a disgrace! Eddie Jordan made a good comment after the race today when he said Ferrari should suspend him and stick someone else in the car. He just has no drive what so ever and cant wiat to get the race over with it seems...
Pity as i still think he's awesome, or can be anyway...

Good race today, its starting to get a little boring now though. The Ferrari/Mclaren domination has been replaced with Brawn, and to a very small extent Red Bulll. Massa ruined any chance of us seeing a competitive race today when he held up Vettel for so long. Still enjoyable to watch though and tbf, Ferraris progress with Massas car was quite remarkable imo! Lets hope it continues and spreads to the other cars aswell and lets get a good few races where litterally anyone of 6-8 drivers can win.

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

Red Man


Tbf, im a Raikonnen fan, always have been....
However, this year he has been a disgrace! Eddie Jordan made a good comment after the race today when he said Ferrari should suspend him and stick someone else in the car. He just has no drive what so ever and cant wiat to get the race over with it seems...
Pity as i still think he's awesome, or can be anyway...

Good race today, its starting to get a little boring now though. The Ferrari/Mclaren domination has been replaced with Brawn, and to a very small extent Red Bulll. Massa ruined any chance of us seeing a competitive race today when he held up Vettel for so long. Still enjoyable to watch though and tbf, Ferraris progress with Massas car was quite remarkable imo! Lets hope it continues and spreads to the other cars aswell and lets get a good few races where litterally anyone of 6-8 drivers can win.

anyone of 4-5 drivers could have won today, but through one thing and another they didnt.
 
your still in denial, but your going to have to admit soon that button is a good driver.  Or are you ready now?
 
ferrari and mclaren are moaning about the 40m cap, but did you see the monstrosities they have parked in the paddock as pointed out by the commentary team? 
 
how is whats happening now boring, when you yourself loved the scumacher years when we had team orders making sure rubens didnt win (and he could have) and there was normally only one other car able to even challenge.  was boring as anything.  Now we have redbull who are every bit as fast as brawn, the ferrari is capable, so are the toyotas.
 
what we are seeing is two of the best drivers doing well, with the webber and vettel pushing them all the time. 
 
hamilton should be up there, but his car is nearly a second a lap off race pace. 
 
did you watch qualifying?  dont know how you can say that was boring!!!

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I only seen q3 mate, was too busy in work.

I agree, the Schumacher days were pants as he was completely dominant even in terms of his own team. I liked Schuey though so the cracks were easily papered over... lol

Today though for me was a different situation. Button was away and no one else stood  chance. Massa massively held up the Red Bulls and imo the 'kers' system is a joke. The red bull was massively faster than the Ferrari but the kers system on the Ferrari acted like a blocking system...

For something that was introduced to improve overtaking and make a better 'race', its has failed imo. I think they should make all cars use it or all cars get rid of it. Its the only way to make things fair.

Oh and Daz, i never said Button wasnt a good driver, i said i didnt like him, i dont however believe he is as good as some of the others. It has showed however, more than ever in F1, that the car IS EVERYTHING.

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

How McClaren are screwing up at this kinda level is beyond me, they have moved backwards as the reast of the field is moving forwards as the season usually goes.

Im enjoying wathing Brawn win, tho I think Barracello was cheated out a good bit today.

Feeling sorry for Lewis cause all he wants to say is that the car is crap and he cant do anything about it, but that would get him i trouble, every corner I saw him in he was correcting and twitching all over the place.

redman, rubens is a top notch driver, and just behind button, so how can you say its the totally the car making button fast? were that the case rubens would be killing button but hes not! he could have won it, if the pitstop strategys had stayed as planned, had the safety car not been out, i think rubens would have taken it, and the redbulls would have been challenging for podium, and the whole race would have been alot more exciting

i was gutted for him really, i wanted rubens to take a win, he deserves it after all the years ferrari held him back so schumacher could win. 

cubed- with you on the mclaren thing, how can such an experienced team, with one of the biggest budgets and most staff be struggling on such a huge scale to match teams that have tiny budgets compared to them!  hell brawn only just have enough to go racing for the year not even having a major sponsor, redbull have a very limited budget, yet here is mclaren with pretty much unlimited funds (compared to others) and they cant do anything.

Its funny they keep saying the cars not up to it, well they designed and built it, using the same regs as everyone else but with more money!! 

There is something fundamentally wrong in their team leadership and setup, and untill they change they will stay at the back.

What they need is someone like ross brawn. . . . .  lol

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Its was funny when its was annoucned the Brawn would be sponsored by the new terminator 4 film fo this race....and it was the tinyest little logo on the side of the rear wing lol.

cu3ed


Its was funny when its was annoucned the Brawn would be sponsored by the new terminator 4 film fo this race....and it was the tinyest little logo on the side of the rear wing lol.

yeah it looked more like a dirty mark!
 
I think this is because the rules are pretty strict about the cars changing appearance mid season, so they are very restricted on what they can put on them, hence why the virgin logo is small as well
 
if they were allowed i bet they would have no problem at all finding a major sponsor to take the cars colours and team name.  Id say for certain there is some lined up ready for next year!
 
Its very weird seeing a car and the teams overalls with virtually on sponsors logos on!

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hearing on the news today, ferrari say they are pulling out of F1!!

Bye then. .   lol

cant say i would be fussed really, all they ever seem to do is moan about anything they dont like, basically anything that makes it fairer for the other teams.  There is hopefully at least one new team coming in next year, spurred on by the budget cap

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Hahaha, not heard about this Daz....
Ill search about tomo...
Thanks for the heads up

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

So basically this season has already shown that F1 is a battle between who can make the best car and tha tall the drivers are basically around the same skill levels.

Worst sport (and I use the term loosely) in the world!!!!! ;)

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Cardifflad


So basically this season has already shown that F1 is a battle between who can make the best car and tha tall the drivers are basically around the same skill levels.

Worst sport (and I use the term loosely) in the world!!!!! ;)

 your missing the point big time.  F1 (or any motor racing for that matter) is a team sport, its about the teams and the car as much as it is the driver.
 
Yes, the drivers all have similar skill level, can you name me one top level competition where the skill levels arent similar?  like any sport there are better and worse drivers, but all highly skilled at the very top end of motorsport, so that part of your post makes no sense at all.

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I can see Cardiffs point but as a football fan myself i can see the link between the 2 sports already... Mainly money...

This year however this changed in F1. The richest teams are struggling and the poorest teams are flying. You just dont get that in football.
Imagine West Brom winning the prem this year... Thats not far off what Brawn are about to do in F1. Completely unpredicted and i would still be laughing now if someone tried to tell me last year what would be happening now.

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

apparenlty Ferrari have contested the rules of every F1 season they've entered in since 1950. However we will see if this is just a bluff to try and get their own way, 29th May is the closing date for entries into the 2010 season so not that long to wait to find out if there in or out

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Red Man


I can see Cardiffs point but as a football fan myself i can see the link between the 2 sports already... Mainly money...

This year however this changed in F1. The richest teams are struggling and the poorest teams are flying. You just dont get that in football.
Imagine West Brom winning the prem this year... Thats not far off what Brawn are about to do in F1. Completely unpredicted and i would still be laughing now if someone tried to tell me last year what would be happening now.

it just shows how much money ferrari waste!  Its a good thing, now that it has been proved you can be competitive on much much smaller budgets than historically needed (brawn and redbull in particular) more teams will be encouraged to join.  more teams can only mean better races, no matter where they place in the field, even if they were at the back, more cars on the grid means more racing!
 
i just dont see the point ferrari are trying to make, their statement is very round about.  but basically they are saying that they think spending should be unlimited, and that to cap it goes against the spirit of F1 and everything that ferrari stand for. 
 
The thing is, its not spending limits that have made ferrari uncompetitive this season, as they havent been introduced yet, so i dont see the point they are trying to make!  Their position is one of their own making, as much as they are trying to blame everyone else!
 
 

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dazc

Red Man


I can see Cardiffs point but as a football fan myself i can see the link between the 2 sports already... Mainly money...

This year however this changed in F1. The richest teams are struggling and the poorest teams are flying. You just dont get that in football.
Imagine West Brom winning the prem this year... Thats not far off what Brawn are about to do in F1. Completely unpredicted and i would still be laughing now if someone tried to tell me last year what would be happening now.

it just shows how much money ferrari waste!  Its a good thing, now that it has been proved you can be competitive on much much smaller budgets than historically needed (brawn and redbull in particular) more teams will be encouraged to join.  more teams can only mean better races, no matter where they place in the field, even if they were at the back, more cars on the grid means more racing!
 
i just dont see the point ferrari are trying to make, their statement is very round about.  but basically they are saying that they think spending should be unlimited, and that to cap it goes against the spirit of F1 and everything that ferrari stand for. 
 
The thing is, its not spending limits that have made ferrari uncompetitive this season, as they havent been introduced yet, so i dont see the point they are trying to make!  Their position is one of their own making, as much as they are trying to blame everyone else!
 
 

Well said Dazs.

I think they realise that as they couldn't compete this year with mammoth funding that next year they would be completely screwed with a relatively small pot. I think their threat is to avoid potential humiliation.

I think Ferraris point of thought is quite simple really mate.....
Look how sh1te they are with an unlimited budget, now imagine how bad they would be with very limited funds.. haha

Ross Brawn and to a certain extent (imo) made Ferrari what they once were again. Now both have gone (mainly Brawn imo) the team is fukced. I can only see this thing about them pulling out as a way of keeping face and leaving F1 without admitting they are off the pace. If the money is capped, they will only get worse. Ferraris history in the sport have revolved around spending money.
Im reading Schumachers autoboigraphy atm and the money spent is obvious from the beggining of F1.

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irishbeast



I think they realise that as they couldn't compete this year with mammoth funding that next year they would be completely screwed with a relatively small pot. I think their threat is to avoid potential humiliation.

C0ck head!!! Just because you can type faster then me doesnt make you special!!! hahaha

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

I can see where you are coming from daz but as the Red Man said it is all money orientated and just doesn't have the edge that it used to.

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Cardifflad


I can see where you are coming from daz but as the Red Man said it is all money orientated and just doesn't have the edge that it used to.

thats the thing tho mate, its less money orientated than it ever has been! the team with one of the smallest budgets is doing the best, the teams with the massivly bigger budgets are midfield or worse!!
 
i think the racing is the best that it has been since the days of senna, prost, berger, mansell etc

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Cardifflad


I can see where you are coming from daz but as the Red Man said it is all money orientated and just doesn't have the edge that it used to.

Not this year mate, its the complete opposite atm...??? Im as baffled by it as the next man....

"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

I think I had better back out of this thread as I am talking sh8t ha ha

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Worst thing that can happin the the sport...yas really think Ferrari are just hinking...umph, we can do well with lots of money, so we will quite?

Please...and look ath the history Ferrari have in F1...they are the history of it, theirs been plenty of years before they never won a thing and didnt say anything.

The budget cap and prefereences being shown is going to kill it now, its not just about the money, theirs a whole lot of crap thats being dragged along with it.

Its worth noting that Toyota and Red Bull ( and look how well they have done this year),have issued the same threats to leave next year if this idea isnt binned.

What other sports have 2 sets of rules for the exact same competition?.

cu3ed


Worst thing that can happin the the sport...yas really think Ferrari are just hinking...umph, we can do well with lots of money, so we will quite?

Please...and look ath the history Ferrari have in F1...they are the history of it, theirs been plenty of years before they never won a thing and didnt say anything.

The budget cap and prefereences being shown is going to kill it now, its not just about the money, theirs a whole lot of crap thats being dragged along with it.

they are saying that unless the budget cap rules are withdrawn they will pull out. 
 
so what if ferrari have been in F1 since the begining.  i dont see the point, if they have noone to race agains there is nothing to watch, and no fans.  noone wants to watch a team drive round at the front, and a couple of teams follow them.  We want racing, and as close and competitive as possible.
 
ill watch f1 just the same with or without ferrari, makes no difference to me, and i think most poeple feel the same to be honest.
 
how is a budget cap going to kill it?  competitive racing, more teams, you have a strange idea of what killing it is.  To me that looks the exact opposite! 

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They didnt say that, they said their was no discussion FIA just said this is it, and the teams looked at each and said...what?

Dirvers are saying it stupid, more than Ferraro are saying it stupid, you will have 2 classes of cars racing on the same track but they can win the same prize?

You may say that people wont watch, but based on Ferraro dominating for years with Shuy, that doesn't stand.

Its stupid it makes no sence, and I think the FIA will realise how much damage this would do TBH, im not a fan of Ferrari, but they should have a place on the grid, and why would Ferrari amidst a bad turn of money for them, want to argue this point?...surly they are looking to save the way things are.

You wont have cometitive teams anymore, you will have us and them mentality to the sport, you see it alittle with cars that have the Kiers )sp) system in.

More teams doesnt mean good quality teams, so we have a few more cars at the back...great...it wouldnt be the opposite, I think people will just see it as alittle fragmented and just not have the interest.

Ferrari, the name, the logo, the colour, are branded to F1 as much as Ferraro themselves...never...ever undersell what a big brand impact can have on anything.

Just because things have flipped about this year, then leave it at that, stop changing the bloody rules, we have had a year on year set of ruls since I can remember, they seem to think pushing on what they have now will make it better, it wont.

ferrari moan about the rules every time they change though, it gets a little tedious with their constant foot stamping.

they could still race next year, its their choice not to.

i think they are using all this as a diversion from their utterly shocking performance!

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Dazc what gives you the impression that Brawn and Red Bull have a small budget? The Brawn car was developed by Honda and Red Bull arent short of cash. Toyota have a massive budget as well and them along with Red Bull have stated their worries about the budget cap.

Also on this due to them having a terrible season. What about the years before the Shcumacher era when Ferrari achieved nothing in the sport but still kept at it.

The FIA have made a balls up. Ferrari just spoke up first. Others will follow.

CloudStrife


Dazc what gives you the impression that Brawn and Red Bull have a small budget? The Brawn car was developed by Honda and Red Bull arent short of cash. Toyota have a massive budget as well and them along with Red Bull have stated their worries about the budget cap.

i was speaking comparatively.  the brawn car was developed under ross brawn, hes the reason the team is where they are, had honda stayed it would have had their badge, but they didnt.  What they did do however is provide funding for this year equivalent to what it would have cost them to wind up the company.  so brawn have till the end of this season to find funding to continue. 
 
the talk of budgets is really just about the fact that it has now been proved that money isnt the guarantee of sucess. 

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The Brawn car was fully developed by Honda. Had the car the Honda badge im sure it would not have went any slower. Brawns finances this year im sure are in great condition with their great start to the season.

Money means alot in F1 and the big teams usually win.

Cardifflad


So basically this season has already shown that F1 is a battle between who can make the best car and tha tall the drivers are basically around the same skill levels.

Worst sport (and I use the term loosely) in the world!!!!! ;)

 Alot of people struggle to understand motorsport because there are so many aspects to it where as football for example is very easy to understand. Two teams, win lose or draw.

Trust me with your life, not your money or your wife.