Frankie NY's Mass Building Program

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

Front squats are a great exercise and in many ways better than back squats.

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Frankie - would you mind elaborating please?

I was doing fronts for three months, i've switched to Back's now, so would be very interested in your opinion.

Skrewdriver:

Relax my friend. Back squats and front squats are BOTH great leg developers. Front squats have the benefit of shifting some of the stress away from the posterior chain and transferring more of it to the quads. Front squats also help you develop better balance. Finally, front squats allow you to rest your lower back a little more if deadlifting taxes it too much.

That being said, back squats are an excellent exercise. I would alternate between the two from cycle to cycle.

I've never tried front squats, when i plataeu on my regular squats i normally shift to leg press. I think the next time a change is due i'll incorporate them.

I'm seeing if i can back squat 200kg by the end of march for 5 reps at least once, i'm doing 4x5 with 187.5k now.

Two questions, 1) does this look realistic and two given my current strength what would it be reasonable to assume i could front squat (given that for the first month or so i will simply be learning a new technique)

any suggestions about the ant/post compartment syndrome i mentioned on p20?
also, my obliques are... well i dont have any! could i add a set of these to the ab ses at end of legs. I kno u'l say i dont need to cos they will get hit enough, but would one extra set lead to overtraining?

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

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Originally posted by Ozman

I'm in my 5th week of the Frankie program. My problem is I have made very little progress.

I am eating about 2000 to 2200 cals a day at 3hr intervals

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As Pike suggests, I think you're not eating enough, even for someone who weighs 160 pounds. You need to eat closer to 3,000 calories. Try to eat a protein, carb, and fruit or vegetable at every meal. Given how lean you are and your desire to bulk, don't be too fat conscious. Eat good fats - peanut butter, avocado, nuts, etc..

Are you sleeping enough? 5x5 is very taxing on the body, and you need to get plenty of sleep (8 hours or more per day)

In terms of your routine, is it possible that you started off too heavy and immediately plateaued? When I see someone describing your kind of results, often that is what has happened.

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Thanks for the replies guys.

I have been feeling a bit tired so it's possible I need more sleep and rest so I'll work on that.

I don't think I started too heavy cos I chose weights that I could do 6/6/6/5 reps in the 4x6 routine.

I don't think I need more calories. Maybe I'm not adding them up correctly, but if I am putting on fat then I have an excess, IMHO.

First off Frankie thanx for this great routine and much respect to you for the effort you put in to replying to people. This routine has postponed my use of gear (maybe permantly as the gains are what I was looking to be post cycle after only 6 weeks of 5x5) I have just a few questions.


my routine
Mon Pull
Deadlifts
Bent over BB rows
BB curls

Wed Push
Flat BB bench
Incline DB presses
Standing Military Press

Fri Legs
Squats
SLDL
abs


First question is my grip I have read your replys that the grip will eventually catch up but was just wondering how long it takes as it is the only thing hindering my deadlifts right now. After warmups it is usually fine for the first 3 sets but then it just goes and I have to regrip the bar after every rep or two for the remainder (on both deadlifts with same weight)and I am not sure if that is benificial or not because it takes 5-7 seconds(been at the same weight for 3 weeks after making good gains the first few weeks, its really not that difficult for me just trying to be patient) Also a question about farmers walk do I really need to walk or can I just hold (just had the house tiled and will catch hell from the misses if I break anything)

Second question is on press days. These are my favorite days as I see the most improvement however the last two weeks been totally exhausted after benching that military press suffered in form and weight. Today I took a 30 minute break and when I returned all was good. Is this OK to do or is it not recomended.

do you eat or drink anything between that half hour? im not sure if it matters to be honest but i get well paranoid if i dont get some nutrients in me straight after a work out!
do you do both presses then military? c i cant do that, after flat bench i do shoulders, and after that my shoulders and chest feel pretty dead! i was told by the all high and mighty franky(!) to do a tricep execrise after that. this personally works for me as i was actually getting weaker in my last exercise!-the inc db press.

I also do flat bench, then military press and then back to inclines. If I do flat bench and then incline press, I can't really give the military press much of a go as I get too sh@gged out....

Frankie, could you comment on Barbell Curl form please. I curl with my elbows tucked in and my forearms moving through a vertical plane, keeping my knees bent and body as rigid as possible. Problem is that I'm getting a pain in my right forearm. It hurts most as I let the bar back down on the negative rep, and most of all, just as I rack the bar and remove all pressure from the arm. Maybe it's nothing to do with form!! Whaddya think?

Thanx ad19 and robt
I tried that also but my incline presses aren't as much at the end as they are as the second exercise. I eat a bananna during the break and then after presses its the hot tub and a nice big clean meal.
Either way it seems that the first two exercises kill me and whichever is last just suffers without the break. Maybe I will just change them up each time so each one gets a chance to be first second and third

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Originally posted by Dan321

After warmups it is usually fine for the first 3 sets but then it just goes and I have to regrip the bar after every rep or two for the remainder.

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Regripping is normal. You should set the bar down completely, regrip, and reset your posture between reps. This should take no more than about 2 seconds.

Your grip strength will increase. Just be patient.

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Also a question about farmers walk do I really need to walk or can I just hold

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I really don't like static holds for grip work. Anytime you use your grip in weightlifting or everyday life you're moving, so I like to train grip that way. It's harder, and it's better.

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however the last two weeks been totally exhausted after benching that military press suffered in form and weight. Today I took a 30 minute break and when I returned all was good. Is this OK to do or is it not recomended.

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Don't take a break. Instead, try doing just 1 movement for chest, 1 for shoulders, and 1 for triceps. Many, many people find that 2 chest movements is too much on 5x5.

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Originally posted by Lars

Frankie, could you comment on Barbell Curl form please. I curl with my elbows tucked in and my forearms moving through a vertical plane, keeping my knees bent and body as rigid as possible. Problem is that I'm getting a pain in my right forearm. It hurts most as I let the bar back down on the negative rep, and most of all, just as I rack the bar and remove all pressure from the arm. Maybe it's nothing to do with form!! Whaddya think?

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Your form is spot on. Good job. Minimizing the amount you cheat keeps more stress on the biceps.

I suspect your forearm problem is caused by one of two things - either a relative weakness in your forearms or using one arm more than the other. If you are right handed and your right arm is stronger than your left, you may be using the right arm proportionately more than the left and thus placing too much stress on it. Try to focus on exterting both arms with the same force. Drop the weight if you need to.

If that doesn't alleviate the problem, then I suspect that your forearms may be relatively weaker than your biceps and shoulders. Try adding in 2 sets of hammer curls or reverse curls to PULL day and see if the problem doesn't go away after a few weeks.

mate, any thoughts on the shin issue or the obliques? glad you aint charging per question!!!! u should you know!any light on the problems would be great,

What you're currently doing with your son is just fine. Moderate weights at about 3 sets of 10 reps is great. 3 days a week of weights is more than enough. I wouldn't do 4 days at his age. Since his tendons, ligaments, and bone structure are still maturing, I wouldn't lift heavy weights. He'll make good progress staying at moderate weights.


Frankie,
I really appreciate you response. Could you tell me where moderate weight ends and heavy weight begins? My 14 yr old, 140lb son can bench 150lbs for 5 reps and easily squat 150lbs for 10 reps, I haven't let him go higher than that. I don't know if you consider that heavy or moderate. It may be my fault, but doing his body weight or more has been his main goal for bench, squat & deadlift. Also, can he do your workout at 3x8-10 or would you recommend something different. Thank you again for help.

Thanks Frankie. I assume you mean 2 sets of 5 hammer curls or reverse curls. I'll try that. It could definitely be related to relative weakness in my forearms. My wrists are skinny as hell but I'm quite happy with my upper arm.
Thanks again!

Moderate would be 10 reps at a weight that would equal his 15 rep max. Just guess at this, you should have a fairly good idea if you often train together

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Originally posted by ad19

can doing a sudden increase of leg work, like squats and deadlifts, increase the risk of acquiring anterior/posterior compartment syndrome? i now sometimes feel as if i have saw shins when jogging in my cv sessions and was wondering if this could be a possible cause?

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It shouldn't. The best thing you can do to protect your shins is to stretch them out really well before and after cardio sessions. Also, make your cardio sessions fairly intense but of shorter duration. This will reduce wear and tear on your shins and knees.

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Originally posted by ad19

any thoughts on the obliques?

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Obliques and abs are much more dependent on bodyfat level than the exercises you do. They shouldn't be a major concern for you until later. Hanging leg raises and cable crunches are good oblique exercises if you want to do something.

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Originally posted by NJ Viking

Could you tell me where moderate weight ends and heavy weight begins?

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A moderate weight is a weight that you can do for 8-10 reps. A heavy weight is a weight that you can only do for 3-5 reps.

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Also, can he do your workout at 3x8-10 or would you recommend something different.

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3x8-10 would be ideal. He could do up to 5 weight exercises per workout on a 3x8 scheme.

yes but (and i think this has come up alot!), will making sessions shorter and more intense reduce the amount of body fat i burn? and use up more glycogen instead? this isnt really the point of cv work. or, is shorter sessions, that burn roughly the same amount of cals anyway do the same thing?

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Originally posted by ad19

will making sessions shorter and more intense reduce the amount of body fat i burn? and use up more glycogen instead? this isnt really the point of cv work. or, is shorter sessions, that burn roughly the same amount of cals anyway do the same thing?

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No, this is why HIIT is so popular. You can burn 250 calories in 30 minutes or 20 minutes depending upon your level of intensity. I'd rather burn them in 20 minutes. Plus any muscle loss is lessened.

would splitting the leg day into 2 days be too easy for each of the days

gwaipor:

What are your reasons for wanting to do that?

IMO you cant plit legs, there is way too much cross over between sessions

Yeah you can, IMO of course, I gained more on my legs by spliting hip and quad dominant movements.

just so I can go more intense on both hams and quads separately. normally on leg day I get buggered after doing front squats and have to do SLDLs. I thought since I do front squats, it would not work the hams or spinal erector muscles as much, so I can do SLDLs the next day. but the glutes I guess still would be worked both times...so I wasn't sure.

gwaipor:

Actually, I don't see a problem with splitting up squats and SLDLs and doing them on separate days. As long as you don't them on consecutive days it should be fine. As much as we do SLDLs for hamstrings, inevitably it works the lower back and hips in much the same way as standard deadlifts. I don't think squats or SLDLs work the hams so much that you couldn't split them up a few days apart.

Hams get alot from squatting, back squatting anyway. To do a second workout for hams, if you are doing normal deads on a different day, is too much. Normal deads stess the hams alot as well.

I shouldn't really have asked in this topic, but I also substituted deads with hang cleans, just to see how it goes, so I tried to consider that too when figuring out the effect ont he hams etc

What are hang cleans?

Hi

My apologies if this has been mentioned before, but ive been on your routine since august 2003 and have had some good gains in strength, and also added some size in my back and legs.

But im now struggling to train 3 times a week, plus i hava a very active job that involves walking up to 8 miles some days and the last thing i feel like doing is lifting weights. At present im lucky to get two good training sessions in a week, so this means for example im only doing pull day every 10 days sometimes. I still have one office day at work midweek and then the weekend and these are the days id prefer to train. As i don't think its wise to lift weights if ive already just walked 6 miles or so at work and probably burned off 1000s of cals in the process.

Should i switch to a 2day a week routine so im deadlifting, squatting , benching etc, once every week??

or carry on as i am which means only deadlifting and squatting etc only every 10 days or so?

My main goal is to add muscle mass for the next 3-4months.

From a motivational point of view i think a 2 day routine would be better for me as im doing the big mass builders more often.

what would a good 2 day a week routine look like ?

Ive done a search but only found one other thread about 2day a week routines and it was as follows

day 1 , squats, bench, milatary press


day 5 deadlifts, chins, barbell row

what do think about this as a 2 day a week routine?

BYF1:

Try this: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=70047

they're cleans that start about half way at the point when you're about to jump to the triple extension..i think

Frankie mate i know that this is a bit of a controversial question but in your opinion do you think that it is possible to 'make it' as a proffessional bodybuilder without chemical assistance ? the only reason i ask is because you seem to be against the use of steroids ? ( i think but correct me if i am wrong )

majorinsano:

It's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to compete professionally without using steroids. Steroids allow you to achieve a muscle mass greater than your natural genetic potential and to achieve lower levels of bodyfat. You'll always be smaller and less cut than someone of similar "size" who uses steroids. You simply couldn't compete.

But I don't consider professional bodybuilding a sport. It's a chemistry contest. Drug free bodybuilding, on the other hand, is a sport.

Life is all about choices. You have to make yours and be comfortable with them.

o.k thanks for your opinion mate - i am a natural trainer but was interested in your point of view.
Also thanks for all of the good advice !!

Frankie, I'm just starting my fifth week on your program. The weights for all of the exercises are increasing each week apart from close grip underhand chins, which, for the last 2 weeks have plateaued. I am very weak at chins, but surely they should not plateau this quickly? The other exercises I am doing on my pull day are deadlifts and barbell rows, and I am getting stronger with these every week. My form on chins is as you have recommended, with elbows staying close to my body, and my body not swinging. What do you suggest to remedy this problem?

Thanks in advance

ap:

Chins, whether wide grip or close grip underhand, are notoriously difficult to progress on. It's not an exercise to which you can expect to add 5 pounds per week. It's not uncommon to plateau for a period of time, then get stronger, then plateau again.

Also, if you're doing deadlifts and then rows, your biceps are already somewhat tired when you get to chins, so it makes progress harder. I'm not suggested that you change your exercise order. I'm just explaining why it's happening.

My advice is to stick with them and be patient.

hi guys, just wondering how you guys calculate the weight that you use for your 5*5 sets, should it be relativly easy on first set leading to difficult on 5th or should it be difficult on the first set and then very very difficult by the fifth?

I have a question when it comes to warm up sets. Lets say 100lbs is my work weight on any givin exercise. If I warm up 1 set 50, 1 set 75, then do I do 5 sets 100 or do the first two sets count as part of the 5*5. Example on push day I do 2 warm ups with flat bench, 1 at 75 with inc db, and 1 at 75 with standing military press does this leave me with 3 work sets with flat bench and 4 with incline db and standing military press

thanx