Frankie NY's Mass Building Program

hi frankie you seem to know your stuff and i have a few questions for you....

i usally train 3 times a week sometimes 4 ( always 4 if on gear)
mostly like this.
chest/triceps
legs/ biceps
back /shoulders
its not always like the above but hope u get the point i dont train like Push, pull, and legs

i usally only train abs every 2 weeks and dont do much 2 exericies max.......reason for this u train your abs while training other body parts .

i am a hardgainer but have gained well on the above since i stopped smoking....

i usally do 3-4 exercises on each body part and do 4 sets for each body part and always go for around 5-6 reps......

my weak parts are my back and my wrists...

what do u think of the way i train and what am i doing wrong and how can i improve????


i have been training 3 times a week since stopping smoking but am just starting to go to 4 times a week due to starting a cycle ( 1st in 2 years).
after finishing i will go back to 3 times a week.......

SHADOW:

I won't give advice to people who I know use drugs. Please don't take it personally. Post your question in the main "Bodybulding Routines" forum, and you will get many responses.

Hi Frankie,

I was wondering if you could do me a big favour? Would you do me the honour of having a look at my journal (it's only the one page so far) and giving me your comments? (I haven't had many comments as yet).

I've been doing 5x5 since Xmas, and was doing 4x6 from around September last year.

My problem is I am progressively getting stronger, which is great and very motivational.. - but as far as size increases are concerned... - virtually non-existant.

I remember last year I could hardly do one unweighted dip... - now I can dip five reps with 27.5Kgs round my waist.. - but my arms (for eg, as the rest of me) are still the same size!??

I've have tried eating more, but this hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. Maybe I need to eat even more? Unfortunately there is only so much I can eat in a day, and only so much time I can spend preparing meals a day!

Here is the link to my journal, any help would be most appreciated.

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=66777

Best regards

franky,
in back day i currently do, lat pulldown, cable pulley follwed by deadlifts, al on 5x5 basis. is this ok? is any of these excercises less effective then bent over rows? would doing those aswell be too much?
also, i mentioined that doing three sets of bicepes after would be ok, would five sets not be? after all the biceps are the quickest muscle to recover.

ad19, how do you have the energy to do deallifts at the end of a back routine?i have to do mine first or im too knackered to do them properly!

Skrewdriver:

What was your bodyweight when you started and what is it now?

From looking at your progress journal you need to improve your diet. Your first meal of the day needs to be a meal not a protein shake. When you're bulking, try to get all your protein from food not protein powder. Try to have a protein, carb, and vegetable or fruit at each meal.

For breakfast have eggs or cottage cheese AND oatmeal, cream of wheat, or wheatena AND a banana, apple, or some other piece of fruit. It's very important to have some fat in your first meal of the day.

Your evening meal seems hearty, but your earlier meals seem pretty light for someone who's trying to add mass. Too many sandwiches, not enough protein. Try to eat more chicken breasts, canned tuna, ground meat, turkey breast, etc. Try to eat more beans, which in addition to being a great carb also have protein.

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Originally posted by ad19

in back day i currently do, lat pulldown, cable pulley follwed by deadlifts, al on 5x5 basis. is this ok? is any of these excercises less effective then bent over rows? would doing those aswell be too much?

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Do deadlifts first. They are the most important exercise and deserve all your attention and energy. Lat pulldowns are a complete waste of time and will do nothing for you. Do chins instead, a great back exercise. Cable rows are far inferior to barbell or dumbbell rows. Do either barbell or dumbbell rows instead.

Doing all these exercises would be too much. Do only 3 weight exercises per workout. For example, deadlifts, dumbbell rows, and chins.

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also, i mentioined that doing three sets of bicepes after would be ok, would five sets not be? after all the biceps are the quickest muscle to recover.

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Don't forget that your biceps get hammered when you deadlift, chin, and row. If you're deadlifting, chinning, and rowing, I wouldn't do any direct bicep work. If you want to do some direct bicep work, then drop either chins or rows.

Who says biceps are the quickest muscle to recover? Even if that were true, you wouldn't want to add more volume to your biceps work because they are a small muscle and are worked so hard whenever you work back that doing so would be counterproductive.

i was doing deads last to finish off my back. I find that they take a lot out of me and someone i know said that by doing them first you have a lot less energy for the other exercises. so i put them at the end so i could concentrate on the other exercises, which wouldnt leave me as tired, leaving me with energy to complete the whole program. after doing heavy deads i feel shttered and find it hard to give 100% on other exercises.but am now confused as to which is best!!

it was in the Arnold Schwarzeneggers new encyclopedia of modern body building that told me bout bi's being the quickest to recover. I have been adding three sets of bi's to the end of the back session, but have found little improvement. So i think il drop them and see how it does. Think il go for single arm rows, get a good kick out of doing them.
when doing chins, should you bring yourself up so the bar is behind your neck? or up to the chin?

oh yeh, i have seen some people doing squats with their heels slightly elevated on a piece of wood or a lying down weight, how does this affect the exercise? im guessing it puts more stress on the quads? would this be advisable or will they be hit enough purely through the flat footed version?

While on a 5X5 routine, how long should the rest between sets be? 30secs, 1 minute, 2 minutes? I'm doing roughly around 2 minutes right now, is that too long?

what about this for day 1:
Deadlift
Wide grip chins
Underhand close grip chins?

Should I stop doing wide grip chins in favor of bent over barbell rows? And if so, should I do them underhand like someone mentioned in an earlier post?

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Originally posted by ad19

after doing heavy deads i feel shttered and find it hard to give 100% on other exercises.but am now confused as to which is best!!

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Good! That's a sign that you're doing them correctly and putting all your energy into them. Do the same with squats, bench presses, and military presses and you'll build an impressive physique!

This is another reason why you only do 3 weight exercises per workout.

Deadlifts are the single best back developer. Do them first. Period.

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it was in the Arnold Schwarzeneggers new encyclopedia of modern body building that told me bout bi's being the quickest to recover.

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If you own that book, burn it. Following anything in that book will only hold you back.

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when doing chins, should you bring yourself up so the bar is behind your neck? or up to the chin?

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Chin to the front, until your Adam's apple is above the bar.

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Originally posted by ad19

oh yeh, i have seen some people doing squats with their heels slightly elevated on a piece of wood or a lying down weight, how does this affect the exercise? im guessing it puts more stress on the quads? would this be advisable or will they be hit enough purely through the flat footed version?

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Squatting with the heels raised is not only unnecessary, it increases your risk of knee injuries. Raising the heels with a piece of wood shifts the stress to the knee joints, not a good idea. A mix of back squats and front squats, both with feet flat, will give you all the leg development you could ever want.

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Originally posted by White-Tiger

While on a 5X5 routine, how long should the rest between sets be? 30secs, 1 minute, 2 minutes? I'm doing roughly around 2 minutes right now, is that too long?

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2-5 minutes. Usually for squats and deadlifts guys need 3-5 minutes because they are such demanding exercises whereas most people need only 2-3 minutes between sets of rows, dips, etc.

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Originally posted by dustinlati

what about this for day 1:
Deadlift
Wide grip chins
Underhand close grip chins?

Should I stop doing wide grip chins in favor of bent over barbell rows? And if so, should I do them underhand like someone mentioned in an earlier post?

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Your routine is fine. You can do rows in your next 12 week cycle if you wish. Or you can do them this cycle. It's up to you. Wide grip chins should be done with an overhand grip to work the lats. Under hand works the biceps more.

its quite interesting to read, but have to say his methods seem rather stretched. he was spending six days a week in the gym, then talking about overtraining. which confused me a bit. ur rite tho, im not guna follow anything he says, nicely happy with ur program thank u very much! but always useful to read more around the subject i think.
Il go back to doing them first then and jus give myself some more rest before doing the chins/rows.
must admit the raised heel looks rather uncomfortable! and probably aint too good on the acheles is it?... so why are people doing them??!!!
I did the chins infront of the bar before but next morning feel soreness through my pecs, and seeen people take it behind the head and so thouhgt i was doing wrong.
what about forearms? i feel as if i have the forearms of an ephiopean! is it wrong to do some forearm curls after back? or should i focus on the whilst cutting?
Really appreciate the help[^]

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Originally posted by ad19

must admit the raised heel looks rather uncomfortable! and probably aint too good on the acheles is it?... so why are people doing them??!!!

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Why do guys do behind the neck presses? Why do guys use the Smith machine? Why do guys do upright rows? Why do people smoke? We all do stupid things.

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I did the chins infront of the bar before but next morning feel soreness through my pecs, and seeen people take it behind the head and so thouhgt i was doing wrong.

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Do them to the front. Doing them behind your head places too much stress on the shoulder joints. The chest and shoulders are heavily involved in chinning as antagonistic muscles, so it's normal that you should get sore there. Just like when you bench sometimes your lats getsore.

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what about forearms? i feel as if i have the forearms of an ephiopean! is it wrong to do some forearm curls after back?

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Heavy deadlifting will take care of your forearms for now. Don't add any more exercises to the routine. Just do 3.

Heavy deadlifting will take care of your forearms for now. Don't add any more exercises to the routine. Just do 3.

I meant to ask about this too....is there any reason why i cant do some forearm work after legs on day 3?

Frankie, I've got 2 questions about the 5X5 routine:

1. I don't use a lifting belt on Deadlift day but I do use it on squat day. Is this ok? I do this because I feel that deadlifts should tax the lower back whereas Squats should hit quads so I wear a belt to take some stress off the lower back. I did a search but there are mixed views on this subject.

2. My back day is getting pretty heavy now ( 325lbs deads, 205lbs rows, and chins+35lbs) and my grip starts failing especially with deadlifts and rows. Should I use straps? Chalk? What do you think?

Bo:

1. You don't need a belt for squats. Correct breathing will give you all the support you need.

2. Your PULL day strength is coming along nicely. Good work. No, don't use straps or gloves. Chalk is fine. If your grip is starting to fail, then increase your grip work on PUSH and LEGS days. Also, give it time. Just from deadlifting, chinning, and rowing your grip will strengthen over time.