Frankie NY's Mass Building Program

Frankie, I've been reading more on the web and I'm even more confused. The Romanian deadlift appears to be the standard deadlift(down to squatting position). For the stiff leg deadlift I just need to clarify if I should keep legs rigid or slightly bent at the knee?

Romanian deadlift is the SLDL. Here's how you do it:

http://www.protraineronline.com/past/june9/romaniandeadlifts.cfm

So legs are slightly bent... but no movement in the joint during the exercise.

Lars:

Keep the legs straight with no bend in the knee, but DO NOT lock the knees in place. As you lower the weight, your knee will bend ever so slightly. This works the hamstrings. If you put bend in the knee, then it works the lower back more. And you don't want to work the lower back with deadlifts twice a week. Not a good idea.

I like doing SLDLs with a double overhand grip (both hands over). This gives you the added benefit of working your grip. You should be able to hold on to the bar unless your SLDL is unusually close in weight to your traditional deadlift.

Hey Frankie, I got a question for you: In your routine, you say Deadlift or Power Clean. I personnaly prefer power clean to deadlift. Are the both exercise as good for mass and strength? What are the advantage of one exercise over the other?

S1MON:

In my opinion, deadlifts are a superior exercise for mass because no momentum or technique is used to move the weight, just raw muscle. Power cleans are an excellent power movement and will also add mass, but they're not as effective as deadlifts. I know that it can get boring deadlifting all the time, so you can mix in power cleans now and then. Deadlifting supports a heavier power clean, but power cleans don't necessarily help you deadlift more.

Frankie,

I am almost done with 2 complete weeks now and its goin great! I lift in the basement of my home, because i have all the weights and things needed and i don't have access to a gym, up until now i haven't had any problems, but now on push day i have maxed out on incline db presses, what should i do? go out and buy bigger weights? or is there another lift i can substitute in? I currently do...

Bench Press 5*5
Incline DB Press 5*5
Standing Mil. Press 5*5
Close Grip 3*5

Your input would be great, thanks frankie!

Frankie i wanna add some barbell curls like 21's at the end of my Monday back workout which is deads, bb rows and chins as i dont feel theyre gettin hit, do u think i should?

PainF5:

That's always the problem with dumbbells. If you have the cash, I would buy the all-in-one dumbbells by PowerBlock. It's one dumbbell that can be changed from 20 to 125 pounds in a few seconds. See

http://www.powerblock.com/frame.html

Or you could buy dumbbell handles and put the weight on yourself. You can find dumbbell handles pretty cheaply at any fitness equipment store. They should cost you about US$60 for two dumbbell handles. They look like this:

http://www.bluelight.com/product/index.jsp?productId=6039&cp=694001&parentPage=family

If you want dumbbell handles and have the cash, IronMind makes some 2" handled Olympic dumbbell handles that are awesome. See

http://www.ironmind.com

Personally, I like dumbbell handles better because you don't have to keep buying dumbbells, which take up a lot of space.

If you don't want to buy any more dumbbells or dumbbell handles, then I would do incline barbell bench press or wide grip dips if you can do them in your current set up.

Since you're doing flat bench, incline bench, and military press, your triceps are getting all the work they need to grow. I think doing even 3 sets of close grip bench press is too much. If you really want to do a tricep movement, then drop one of your chest exercises.

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Originally posted by T_aslam

Frankie i wanna add some barbell curls like 21's at the end of my Monday back workout which is deads, bb rows and chins as i dont feel theyre gettin hit, do u think i should?

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With deads, barbell rows, and chins, your biceps are getting all the work they need. In fact, with 3 compound exercises for your back, your biceps are getting absolutely destroyed. If you want to do a direct bicep movement, then drop either rows or chins. Either approach is fine.

Hey Frankie,

Since your routine is probably the most talked about on this forum, I thought I should finally check it out :-) I have been bb'ing for quite some time, and I don't really consider myself a beginner - I have been working in the low rep range for quite some time now, and my current routine isn't all that much different than yours - except in a few aspects:

1) I incorporate the push/pull/legs split, except instead of doing 5x5 with 3 exercises, I usually do 3x5 with 4 (rarely 5) exercises.
2) Variation is ALWAYS introduced in my workout - I keep the cores and do them every week (deads, squats, bench, sldl's), but to fill up the rest of the exercises, I always rotate exercises. So a typical routine would look like this:

Push: Flat Barbell Bench
Incline Dumbell Bench (or rotate with incline barbell)
Standing military press/overhead press (depending on what you call them)
Close-grip bench (rotate with narrow-grip dips)

Pull: Deadlifts
Barbell rows (rotate with weighted chins)
Barbell curls
Weighted chins

Legs: Squats
SLDL's
Usually just one grip exercise...

All of these are 3x5 as mentioned... so my concern isn't #1, I don't mind giving 5x5 and reducing the # of exercises - it's #2, variation. From what I have read, you recommend staying with the exact same routine for 12 weeks, whereas I have introduced variation to give a broader range of what is worked. Do you feel this is unneccessary and/or detrimental for gains? I am not interested in switching because my progress has slowed down, but merely because I'm always trying new things when they look promising.

So I guess what is your take on variation? Would simply modifying my routine to a 5x5 and keep the rotations be ok, or would you take those out too?

jdhar:

I think your routine looks good.

With regard to variation, it's highly overrated. It's good to vary your exercises every 8-12 weeks just to provide a new stimulus and to keep you from getting bored.

Your muscles need the same stimulus for a while to grow in strength and size but not so long that they completely adapt. Most guys rotate their exercises way too frequently like every few weeks or even every workout. It's hard to make good strength and size gains this way in my experience.

Remember too that there are trainers that hardly ever change their exercises. Powerlifters are one example. Football players are another. Most football players I trained did benches, squats, deadlifts, overheads, cleans, and a couple of other exercises. They almost always used a barbell, so they didn't alternate between barbells and dumbbells. Yet, year after year they got bigger and stronger.

Fair enough.. like I said, I'm always open to changes - so I will stick with what I have w/o variation, see how it works. Not like it can do much harm anyway :-)

Hey Frankie,

I've been doing something pretty similar but 3x6 (and as stupid as it might sound adding 2kg per week when I can), and not training my bi's and tri's due to the same theory, I wasn't adding any inches by curls so I stopped for a while to see if it actually did make any difference.

I'm 19 and I've been active all my life due to playing football all my life (at the age of 8) doing press ups/running (in off season training), then @ 13 I started lifting weights (high reps of 15).

So my endurance should be better (apparently), but I've tried going 5 sets and that KILLS me.

Is doing it to failure just as good, or should I use lower weight to enable me to reach 5 sets but in my opinion that defeats the strength side of this?

Thanks, appreciated.

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Originally posted by PauliE

Is doing it to failure just as good, or should I use lower weight to enable me to reach 5 sets but in my opinion that defeats the strength side of this?

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Training to failure won't lead you to greater size or strength gains, so you don't need to do it. Unless you are an advanced trainer using very, very heavy weights 3 sets is not enough volume. I would make whatever adjustments you need to and do 5 sets of 5 reps. It will just take you some time to get used to it.

I'm assuming that you've been lifting weights between 8 and 15 reps for at least 6-9 months before doing 5x5.

what do u do if u cant complete a set of 5, say on the 3rd or 4th set? do u lower the weight in that workout or continue, like a madman, and lower it in the next workout? sorry if its been asked b4 or if its just common sense. just wanted verification. cheers

You stay at that weight the following week if you can't do the 5 reps on the last set. If you do less than 12 reps on the last three sets then lower the weight the following week.

frankieNY do you train woman and if so could you help my girlfriend out she wants to losse bodyfat add some muscle and be lean she dosnt want to get big just toned and lean ,she is 5foot 6inches 135lbs 20 years old hasnt realy worked out that much before i guess you could say she is a beginer with little experience she needs help with a routine.

Crazyhorse:

Unfortunately, I have never trained women, so I can't really give you advice based on experience. There is a forum on MT dedicated to weight training for women. You might do a search there. Sorry I can't be of more help, but I like to stick to what I know.

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Originally posted by Boxer

You stay at that weight the following week if you can't do the 5 reps on the last set. If you do less than 12 reps on the last three sets then lower the weight the following week.

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I personally wouldn't lower the weight at all. You have already beaten it the previous time. From my experience on the routine so far, staying at the same weight one week and failing, and trying again the next week, makes me more used to that weight. Just MHO.

Also, I need to change my routine up after New Year's or so. I want to do as many DB Excercises as I can, as I never really have used them and I figure it would really shock me. What do you think of this, and how would I go about it?

I disagree Sly mate. If you do that then you will be training to failure regular. This will be a recipe for injury with the heavy weights used with 5x5.

frankie and everyone else who knows something about it, what do u think of weighted push ups,with elevation pads to give the fullest ROM and with weight ? i ask this because i BB at home and for the time being,i lack dumbbells , for push day!

thks in advance.

2nd week in, I've noticed using this routine my form has improved, I think that's because there's less reps.

Strength is definitely up and my chest is looking more muscular already!

My back routine is amazing now, I used to almost faint every time I worked out and a couple of times I've actually been sick and fell flat out, I'm probably going to raise the weights and go through the same thing again because I'm crazy like that, but the new routine with my back routine makes me feel like I could do it twice over.

Obviously I'll do it gradually so I don't burn me out.

Thanks for this Frankie, I know it's not your discovery and you can't claim the routine as your own but it definitely proves something from the past isn't useless.

Respect.

Frankie, in another thread you wrote :

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If you plateau on one or two exercises during a 12 week cycle, that's normal. If you plateau on more than a couple of your exercises, that's a true plateau.

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My question is : what should be done if a single exercise plateaus for say 3 weeks, yet the others continue to increase? e.g. My bench has plateaued but my dumbell bench and military are still increasing steadily.

Thanks

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Originally posted by Vetzak

My question is : what should be done if a single exercise plateaus for say 3 weeks, yet the others continue to increase? e.g. My bench has plateaued but my dumbell bench and military are still increasing steadily.

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Are you doing both dumbbell FLAT bench and barbell FLAT bench? Or is one of them incline?

I am doing flat barbell bench then incline dumbells.

Vetzak:

One last question - do you always have a spotter or bench in a power rack?

Frankie,
Am currently following your regime and it really is an eye opener. Enjoying it [if that's the right thing to say!] and Know I will make some great gains on this.
I have one question....I do flat and incline bench using dumbells for both.
Is this ok? The reason is because my gym only has a Smiths press barbell incline and I don't like using these as they seem to restrict your natural movement. And because I go to the gym on my own [no spotter], I tend not to do barbell flat bench.
Thanks in advance.

Frankie.
I am in the same situation as Vetzak,I don't have a spotter and I don't use a powerack.
I think it maybe a confidence thing, don't want to get trapped under the bar.

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

Vetzak:

One last question - do you always have a spotter or bench in a power rack?

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I bench in a power rack so I have no fear about missing a rep. I also feel that bench press is my favourite exercise and I try my hardest on it, but for the past 3 weeks it has become stuck.

Thanks

Vetzak:

The best thing you can do to break through a plateau in the bench press is to switch to bottom position flat bench presses for a while.

Position the power rack pins so that the bar just barely touches your chest (or as close as possible). Push from the bottom, lock out, and lower the weight back down the pins. Set the bar down completely, but don't let go of the bar. Repeat. Do 5x5, and then move on to inclines and military presses.

Stay with the bottom position benches for 3 weeks and then switch back to regular benches to see where you are.

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Originally posted by rsharper

Frankie.
I am in the same situation as Vetzak,I don't have a spotter and I don't use a powerack.
I think it maybe a confidence thing, don't want to get trapped under the bar.

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Do flat dumbbell or weighted dips instead?

Thanks Frankie. I am already familiar with bottom position benching so I'll give it a go for 3 weeks and see how I get on, cheers.

Hey Frankie, how would you split this routine for two workouts performed on saturday and sunday? Because I don't have enough time to train on week days. Maybe a split like PUSH-PULL or UPPERBODY-LOWERBODY?

S1MON:

If you can only workout on weekends, then you need to space the workouts as far apart as possible. If you can, workout Friday night and Sunday night. You could try:

WORKOUT ONE: Bench Press, Military Press, Dips, Abs

WORKOUT TWO: Deadlift, Squats, Barbell Rows or Chins, Grip Work

Hi Frankie

Been doing your routine for a few months now and have put on 3kg of weight in that time which im very pleased with :)

I have ran into a problem though, i can no longer safely lift the barbell from the floor to over my head and on to the back of my traps to perform squats.

I workout at home on my own but have no squat/power rack and no spotter to assist. How detrimental to my gains would it be not to do squats? or what could i do instead?

My current routine is

Pull

deadlift
underhand chins
bent over row

Push

Weighted Pushups
Milatary Press

Legs/abs

Squats
SLDL
weighted crunches

all mainly 4x6

I built my own squat rack with wood and nails. It is really solid and easy to do. Otherwise, you can build a squat rack, it is very cheap. Squat are a essential exercise and it cannot be replaced by anything else.

hmmm, maybe are get my hammer out then :D

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Originally posted by BYF1

I workout at home on my own but have no squat/power rack and no spotter to assist. How detrimental to my gains would it be not to do squats? or what could i do instead?

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Squats are the most important exercise one can do. Not doing them will hold back your deadlift, overall body growth, etc.

Buy a used power rack for cheap if you can. If not, your next best option is to buy a trap bar and do trap bar deadlifts. This type of deadlift relies much more on the legs but still works the back.

thanks frankie!