Frankie NY's Mass Building Program

No offense taken Frankie, I'll try what you have suggested but as I'm too sure it'll make a difference as I've always done hammers. I can see the logic though, I've just started plate curls, I'll try the lever lifts too.

great routine been on it for the last couple of weeks and has been working well, the only problem i find is that my biceps still have power left in them at the end of the workout for back/bi's is this okay,i make sure i do all the exercises with correct form and so am not cheating.will the biceps get enough stimulation to grow?

Ross:

Exactly what are you doing on PULL day?

im doing deads 5*5,wide grip chins 5*5, seated row 5*5 and a bicep exercise either barbell curls(5*5) or hammer curls(5*5), the thing is i can still work my bi's although with a lightish weight at the end,but theres enough stimulation to grow here isnt there?

Ross:

Why are you doing 4 exercises on PULL day?

What are seated rows? Cable rows?

You're doing 20 sets in which the biceps are heavily involved and you're worried about them not getting enough stimulation??? On the contrary, your volume is too high for optimal bicep growth.

i see. its just that if i only do three exercises then it doesnt seem like ive done enough,even though i train with high intensity.i find it difficult to make my biceps hurt after a low volume workout

Soreness in the muscle is not always an accurate indicator of how well that muscle was stimulated. The soreness or D.O.M.S that you experience is caused by the relative "stretching" of the muscle during the negative repetition. Ever wonder why your ass is so sore after a squat workout? Or chest after a heavy bench day? It's because those muscles are fully stretched with the maximum load at the strongest point of contraction.

I can say that I've followed Frankie's program for 3 weeks now incorporating only compound movements and I'm already seeing gains!! No curls, no pressdowns, just heavy compound movements. Trust me, if you follow his program precisely, you will see results!

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Originally posted by ross20

i see. its just that if i only do three exercises then it doesnt seem like ive done enough,even though i train with high intensity.i find it difficult to make my biceps hurt after a low volume workout

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Remember, you're trying to add muscular size and strength, not cut up for a bodybuilding contest. If you're doing 5x5, then 3 exercises if done with the correct level of intensity should kick your a**! Not to mention that it's almost impossible to do 4 exercises on 5x5 in one hour.

Don't judge your bicep progress by soreness for all the reasons Bo outlines. Deadlifts, chins or rows, and barbell curls are all you need. Trust me.

cheers never realised that about soreness,will follow this routine to the letter and hopefully get some good gains.thanks all.

Hi Frankie, I read another post you made about 'bench press technique' and from what I can make out(the original post was edited and I think a link was removed), the correct form for benching is straight up and down above the nipples. Is this correct?
I've always avoided using the smith machine because I thought it caused an unnatural range of motion. i.e. straight up and down!
I found that the optimum position for me with the smith machine was bringing the bar down to slightly above the nipples? Is this wrong?
I used it today and was able to get 25 reps(5X5) easier than I got 22 reps last week. Do you think the smith machine is OK or particularly good for form?
OR
would you avoid using it at all?

also, with regard to dips, can you explain what is the difference between wide grip and close grip dips? Which should I use on push day if dipping? and is dipping with a wider grip similar to adding weight or does it impact muscles completely differently?

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Originally posted by Lars

I read another post you made about 'bench press technique' and from what I can make out(the original post was edited and I think a link was removed)

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That post was an article on breaking through plateaus, but it got hijacked and turned into a bench press technique discussion, so I moved the article on plateaus into a new thread.

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The correct form for benching is straight up and down above the nipples. Is this correct?

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That's correct.

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I've always avoided using the smith machine because I thought it caused an unnatural range of motion. i.e. straight up and down!

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The problem isn't the straight up and down. It's that the bar is in a fixed plane of motion, which places unnecessary stress on the shoulders and elbows. Avoid the Smith machine like the plague.

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With regard to dips, can you explain what is the difference between wide grip and close grip dips? Which should I use on push day if dipping? and is dipping with a wider grip similar to adding weight or does it impact muscles completely differently?

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Wide grip dips (about 24-25 inches) work the chest more and close grip dips (18-19) inches work the triceps more. Which should you use? It depends on whether you're doing dips as a chest movement or as a triceps movement. Adding weight is the same as on all the other exercises.

hey, can anyone direct me to the article on plateus that Frankie mentions above? thanks.

Blacklab:

Here it is: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64851

I see that you're still new to MT. Learn to use the search function. It's very useful as there's a lot of accumulated knowledge on this site.

hey frankie, can u check out my post? i need a little help about my routine to do now that football has started, and im lifting with the team

my chest day is starting to worry me. my chest press is goin fine, and shoulder press is doing ok, making small gains. but then, inc db press has made no increases, and today i even had to drop a weight.why is this? i dont get it. also, how much body fat is an acceptable level whilst bulking?

ad19:

Your chest and shoulder structure is probably too wasted from bench press and military press. Try dropping the 2nd chest exercise (incline dumbbell presses) and adding a direct triceps exercise, either tricep dips or close grip bench press.

A maximum level of bodyfat when bulking varies from person to person. Rather than thinking in terms of bodyfat percentages, use a waistline increase guideline. When you're bulking, don't let your waist increase by more than 4".

cheers mate, il give that a try. What if my tri's are also ahot to sh*t? jus drop the last exercise? Are tricep dips the standard type of dip? also hitting the chest?
Whilst im at it...mondays deadlift, when lifting the weight my legs tend to extend before i extend at the hips. I this wrong? are there any pages on here that i can check my form against?
Thanks for the help

Hi Frankie,

I got a query for you.

what chins hit the bi's the most?

I'm thinking, a really close grip, palms facing me and going all the way down and up till my palms hit my chest? Is this right?

Thanks.

DaveH:

Yes.

Once again thank you.

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

Blacklab:

Here it is: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64851

I see that you're still new to MT. Learn to use the search function. It's very useful as there's a lot of accumulated knowledge on this site.

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thanks frankie, i found it .. you're right, tons of other useful info
cheers

frankie - could you please suggest the format (alternate, simultaneous, 5 on 1 arm at a time) for 5x5 bicep dumbbells which you deem most appropriate. the responses i have had have been helpful but not decisive. cheers

Frankie, did legs today. Realised while squatting that I was breathing eratically during the first set. Used your method of inhaling and holding for the complete rep, and got an immediate improvement in form and was able to shorten my rests between sets. How should I be breathing for the benchpress and deadlift? Same? Inhale and hold for complete rep?
Also, a question about benchpress technique: You say 'straight up and down above the nipples' but this would lead to the arms being angled slightly towards the feet! Is this correct? Should that not be straight up and down so that the arms are at a 90 degree angle with the body? This would be a point a few inches above the nipples. Can you elaborate on benchpress technique a little please?
Thanks!

Interesting that, about holding your breath for the complete rep, first i've heard. I'll be sure to try that next week.

I find bench pressing from my nipples about the perfect angle. Coming down anywhere closer to my shoulders feels more stressful on my shoulder joints... ? I'm not sure you should be directly over your nipples when your arms are extended (I have no idea of telling from where I'm lying anyway) - but certainly when you come back down, the bar comes over my nips.

am thinking of trying a cutting phase even though i have not reached the muscularity i am after. Never done one before and am thinking that i should experience one before i try putting on any more size. so i can find out how easy it is to lose the weight. stupid???

i am trying to do three light cardio sessions a week with the 5x5 routine just to ward off too much unwanted fat.but when?!! I can fit in a session sunday, tuesday (the 2 rest days), but am avoiding thurs as its the day before the leg session. i also thought sat would be a bad day as i might reduce my leg gains. any idea's?

frankie, whats the best way to add in cleans to my deads day? I would like to both, even if i clean light, because my form in that is pretty shaky and i want to do it so i can get that down. So what would be the best sets/reps for my pull day?

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Originally posted by the block

frankie - could you please suggest the format (alternate, simultaneous, 5 on 1 arm at a time) for 5x5 bicep dumbbells which you deem most appropriate. the responses i have had have been helpful but not decisive. cheers

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To be honest, I don't think it makes that much difference. Do whichever is most comfortable for you.

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Originally posted by Lars

How should I be breathing for the benchpress and deadlift? Same? Inhale and hold for complete rep?

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I'm glad to hear that it's helped. Yes, the same.

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Also, a question about benchpress technique: You say 'straight up and down above the nipples' but this would lead to the arms being angled slightly towards the feet! Is this correct?

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Yes.

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Should that not be straight up and down so that the arms are at a 90 degree angle with the body? This would be a point a few inches above the nipples. Can you elaborate on benchpress technique a little please?

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The position you are describing would mean that the elbows would be flared out, which is not what you want. This places more stress on the elbows and shoulders than need be.

Don't think in terms of the position of your arms. Think in terms of the path of the bar. If you lower the bar to your nipples and press straight upwards, your arms will follow the correct path. Because you can have a tendency to let the bar drift back toward the eyes when you press upwards, try to push the bar toward your feet. This will help you press the bar straight up and keep the elbows in the correct position.

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Originally posted by ad19

am thinking of trying a cutting phase even though i have not reached the muscularity i am after. Never done one before and am thinking that i should experience one before i try putting on any more size. so i can find out how easy it is to lose the weight. stupid???

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Incredibly stupid. The only reason to "cut" is to prepare for a contest or if your bodyfat gets way out of control. If you need to lose some bodyfat, then eat just a slightly cleaner diet. Over 6-8 weeks, you'll lean out a little bit.

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Originally posted by ad19

i am trying to do three light cardio sessions a week with the 5x5 routine just to ward off too much unwanted fat.but when?!! I can fit in a session sunday, tuesday (the 2 rest days), but am avoiding thurs as its the day before the leg session. i also thought sat would be a bad day as i might reduce my leg gains. any idea's?

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If you're eating a good diet, 2 cardio sessions a week is enough. The only day I wouldn't do cardio is the day after LEG day. The day before is fine.

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Originally posted by BigDirk

frankie, whats the best way to add in cleans to my deads day? I would like to both, even if i clean light, because my form in that is pretty shaky and i want to do it so i can get that down. So what would be the best sets/reps for my pull day?

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I wouldn't do them both the same day as they work many of the same muscles, and you want to be totally fresh for both exercises. For powercleans, I'd stick to 3 rep sets.

alrite, il believe ya! thanks for the help again! much appreciated

Frankie,

On small-muscle exercises such as bicep curls and tricep presses, should sets be limited to 3x5 or stay at 5x5? Know that it is easy to overtrain these areas...

Thanks

Mighty306:

On this routine 5x5. On a higher volume routine only 3 sets.

frankieNY do you realy have to do incline db or incline press to get the most size and strength in your chest , on my last 12 weeks i did bench press, mil press and dips, i would like to do incline in my next 12 weeks , but i had a problem with my mil press not going up in weight due to to much presses. what do you think about this for my push day. going for more strength than size now.
flat bench 5x4
standing mil press 5x4
incline dumbell or bar press 5x4

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Originally posted by crazyhorse

frankieNY do you realy have to do incline db or incline press to get the most size and strength in your chest

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No.

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on my last 12 weeks i did bench press, mil press and dips, i would like to do incline in my next 12 weeks , but i had a problem with my mil press not going up in weight due to to much presses.

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Many people have the same issue as you. After two chest movements, the shoulders and triceps are too tired to effectively do shoulder presses. In that case, do 1 chest movement (whichever you want), 1 shoulder press (barbell or dumbbell), and 1 tricep movement (dips or close grip bench press).

cheers frankie. are you kept busy mate or what!

Block:

Yes, but I don't mind. Running a gym you inevitably have down time during the day, so I'm happy to help others. Besides, I owe. Many people have helped me over the years to get to where I am now.

Frankie:
Just saying thanks again for the routine !
And its great to see you and others here giving out top notch advise !