'Golfers elbow'

guys and girls, 
 
just kinda looking to see if anyone has gone throu this, I have been training hard over the last 5-6 months, and seen some massive improvements in my appearence, going from a 24stone lard arse, to a 21st 'big guy'. I have ensured I have looked after myself as much as I can but at the start of december I got a pain in my right shoulder whenever i tried to do dumbell shoulder presses. I treid lowering the weight slightly and powering thru (i know i know, mistake). When my shoulder didnt take to kindly to this my gym was shutting for 2 weeks as its in a college so I used this as a complete rest period.
 
after my first few sessions back I have switched my traaining program to a strongholds routine, but I did a shoulder dumbell press 2 weeks ago instead of militay press as I wasnt feeling as strong as normal (working till 7am will do that i suppose) and straight away this feeling of pain starting in my front left delt and wrapping its way down my arm to the elbow started again. I have since had a few sleepness nights when I wake and have either very sore elbows (pain in joint) or a sense of numbness in my lower arm. I decided to bite the bullet and visit the docs and was surprised when he told me it was golfers elbow, basically the same as tennis elbow but in lifting rather than pushing movements. He has reffered me to physio and says worse case it will be some ultra sound or injections but as long as I use elbow supports I should be fine to train but avoid the dumbell press.
 
Now that was fine till I went to work and one of my collegues is a certified sports physio, When i mentioned to her what was said, she informed me it was probabol that when I went to physio they were going to tell me to stop training till its healed...which could take months and may require surgery!! this has concerned me and I was wondering if any of you have had kind of similar problems?? and how you solved them?
 
 

It sounds like a large spread of pain for golfers elbow, but either wat could still be tendonitis.
 
I get this a lot and just have to train around it. You will almost certainly be told later in this thread that there will be an underlying cause that needs treating, and there may well be - if so this will eventually need treating.
 
Personally, my elbow tendonitis is because I climb and am 15 stone. Whilst I'm strong enough to handle my mass, my tendons take a hammering. I deal with this by doing eccentric exercises and training around it when it flares up. Diet also seems to help.

Hey Buddy, I am sorry you are suffering and what you have described is a very common series of events.
 
I cannot predict accurately what the professionals will do but, like your colleague, there are some likely scenario's which are why people are losing faith in the therapy world - sadly!
Ultimately there is a mechanical reason why your shoulder/elbow is uncomfortable - yes it can be caused by pressing movement BUT it is the mechanical loading inside your body that actually causes the problem not the lifting bit - if that makes sense!? For example many people lift over head and dont have this problem so why do you? Well instrincally there is something not in its correct place for whatever reason.
So if the physio does ultra sound and offers cortisone injections this will be to address the pain itself, fair enough BUT it wont be addressing the root cause of your mechanical issues which could be related to pelvic alignment, rotator cuff muscle spasm, median or radial nerve tethering or many other reasons.
 
What I would suggest is firstly avoid anything that makes it worse but keep doing what ever you can. See the physio and accept what you are happy with by way of treatment but you also need someone to check your biomechanical set up so that you can understand exactly WHY you have this problem. If anyone says 'because you lift heavy weights over your head' they are not giving you a satisfactory answer.
Have a look at the imovefreely programme thread and see if anything rings bells in there for you mate
hope this helps

thanks for the advice and help guys
 

Haha! I predicted that one Rach!
 
Quick question if I may - what do you know about the MacKenzie Technique for a lower back derangement?

Bollard


Haha! I predicted that one Rach!

Quick question if I may - what do you know about the MacKenzie Technique for a lower back derangement?

hahaha we were typing at the same time buddy!
When you say 'what do I know' exactly what is the question mate? sorry you know I am pedantic about being technical

The missus has a lower back derangement (prolapsed disc of some sort).
 
She's been guided towards a MacKenzie Specialist - it actually seems fine and she's making progress - but I just wondered if you had an opinion on whether this is indeed the best way forward.
 
Also, she has had fairly major knee surgery (7 yrs ago now) - she used to be a very good tennis player but since the injury and subsequent op has never fully recovered, she certainly carries the knee and is nowhere near confident enough to get back on court with it.  I'm thinking long term with the MacKenzie treatments and whether we can get her moving better and with more confidence again.
 
I'm sure she'd love to get back on court, even if it was just at club level.

ok the MacKensie technique does carry the risk of damaging facet joints that are not aligned.
From what I know of it the idea is to 'squeeze' the posterior protrusion back into position through spinal extension. This is fine of there is good alignment throughout the joints. However it can have wearing affect on the facet joints if there is any pelvic asymmetry or shoulder dysfunction for example.
So while the technique can have immediate benefits it does carry a risk as described above.
 
My suggestion would be rather than address the problem itself, remove the excessive loads being put upon the area where the problem is first and then if there is still a need for another therapy use the more aggressive techniques. Using release techniques as described throughout the Biomechanics Q&A thread or in the imovefreely website.
 
If there is a pelvic or spinal asymmetry it is highly likely to transfer into her knees and feet. This could result in a lack of stability through her knee too.
 
As always the whole body approach will certainly be necessary for a thorough assessment of influencing factors to both her complaints.

Cheers Rachel.

So had my physio appointment today.....and rach I am sure you will glad to hear, I have more faith in it now. 
 
The assessment was not very painful although she did seem to be more aware of what I was saying and understand it a lot better than the doctor. The initial assessment was that although yes there is some signs of golf and tennis elbow there is more going on which is why the symptoms are appearing worse as a whole, than individually. After all was said and done she said I can continue training just avoid anything that hurts it.......
 
Got some nice movements to do at home, and a free rubber band, and got to report back in 2 weeks where 'they may get me to perform the movement that causes the pain' just to see it in action!! always somethign to look forward to :).
 

well sounds like you feel a lot happier mate
just remember to do what you have been told now and persevere. If this doesnt do the trick then the root cause has not been addressed still and I will recommend someone for you to visit.
 
Keep us posted!

well sounds like you feel a lot happier mate
just remember to do what you have been told now and persevere. If this doesnt do the trick then the root cause has not been addressed still and I will recommend someone for you to visit.
 
Keep us posted!

well sounds like you feel a lot happier mate
just remember to do what you have been told now and persevere. If this doesnt do the trick then the root cause has not been addressed still and I will recommend someone for you to visit.
 
Keep us posted!

well sounds like you feel a lot happier mate
just remember to do what you have been told now and persevere. If this doesnt do the trick then the root cause has not been addressed still and I will recommend someone for you to visit.
 
Keep us posted!

yeah am happier, 4 times over hehe;)
 

I've had/got golfers elbow, as Rachfit says it will be down to a weakness somewhere, this could literally be anything though and it is very hard to pinpoint ime, push your physio to address this and not just focus on where the pain is.
 
Good posts Rach, pretty summed my situation up.

bigredmonkey


yeah am happier, 4 times over hehe;)

hahaha just checking!!
no I dont know why it quadruple posted sorry!!

Big d, yeah she thinks its down to poor rear delt development, Poor elastisicty in the arm nerves, and my shoulder blades stick out like the hunchback of notre dame! trying to address all issues but the exercises are tough and make me feel like that first session in a gym!! hopefully all good thou, and I will forgive her cause she was cute! (yes rach all men think like this :) )
 

pmsl not sure if thats a comfort or not!?!?!?!
 
It is great that she seems to have the whole body approach as Big D says, it often isnt the site of pain that is the actual cause.
Keep us posted mate

So had the latest physio sesion today, all seems to be going well in the elbow department. Pity its not so well in the shoulder.
 
Positives, I can now 'salute' with both arms without either feeling tight, as in being pulled. This must mean the 'elasticity' moves are working. The elboe tendons have improved significantly and I have not had one sleepness night since starting the improvements.
 
Negatives, whatever is causing the shuolder pain is now affecting my barbell movements :(, had to stop my push/press the other day as the pain appeared. They want to continue as is, but with adding in some wall push-ups on a ball to try and resolve the shoulder blade aligment issue along with the elbow before looking at the shoulder. Was also very dissapointed that I had to show her what a seated shoulder press, and military press is thou.
 
Overall, cant really complain, as the situation is geting better, just wish I could do the big shoulder movements like I was, seems so wrong not punishing my shoulders as hard as I could.....perhaps I should use this as practice for leaving the ego at the door to the gym......
 
Next appointment is in 3 weeks, perhaps will be even better then :)