Gradually reducing carbs, or just stopping?

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CHRISLA - you really need to do some research into your comments before you post
 
granted the ketosis diet has benefits - but your comment that 'you dont need carbs' - thats again just diabolical
 
complex carbs are essential, even when losing fat! you cant train as efficiently with deplted muscle glycogen stores....
 
they help keep your blood sugar levels constant, this reduces fat storage and fatigue and promotes the release of insulin, essential for muscle development. 
 
PWO you NEEEEEDDDD a source of quick carbs straight away, the insulin spike generated helps to push your body into an anabolic state.

in response to the OP you do want to lower your amount - i would stick to a meal of carbs upon waking, possibly a small amount pre training and carbs in ur PWO shake - the remainder of ur meals i wud incorporate proteins and EFAs

 


This is pretty much what I'm doing; carbs in morning, pre-workout & post workout meal (i don't have a shake). The other 3 meals are protein & fats. I suppose Chrisla is saying the Ketosis diet your body swtches from using carbs as an energy source to using fats instead meaning you lose more fat and still manage lift heavy weights. I'm a bit sceptical about the heavy compound lifts especially Deadlift as my heart races high which normally means your body tries to use carbs as a fuel source as fat can't be burned quick enough that's why you have a fat burning zone in cardio. 

tap_out


CHRISLA - you really need to do some research into your comments before you post
 
granted the ketosis diet has benefits - but your comment that 'you dont need carbs' - thats again just diabolical
 
complex carbs are essential, even when losing fat! you cant train as efficiently with deplted muscle glycogen stores....
 
they help keep your blood sugar levels constant, this reduces fat storage and fatigue and promotes the release of insulin, essential for muscle development. 
 
PWO you NEEEEEDDDD a source of quick carbs straight away, the insulin spike generated helps to push your body into an anabolic state.

in response to the OP you do want to lower your amount - i would stick to a meal of carbs upon waking, possibly a small amount pre training and carbs in ur PWO shake - the remainder of ur meals i wud incorporate proteins and EFAs

Perhaps you are the one who needs to research first.

Try reading Dave Palumbo's diet thread. I assume you know who Palumbo is, owner of RX Muscle and has hundreds of clients, including in the past Toney Freeman (IFBB Pro)

Dennis Wolf, Freeman and countless other IFBB pros, not to mention normal bodybuilders have all used the Keto diet to great affect.

Take your head out of the sand and accept there is more than one way to diet.


When you have spent a good few hours reading around the subject please do feel free to come back.

Bluenose17

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CHRISLA - you really need to do some research into your comments before you post

granted the ketosis diet has benefits - but your comment that 'you dont need carbs' - thats again just diabolical

complex carbs are essential, even when losing fat! you cant train as efficiently with deplted muscle glycogen stores....

they help keep your blood sugar levels constant, this reduces fat storage and fatigue and promotes the release of insulin, essential for muscle development. 

PWO you NEEEEEDDDD a source of quick carbs straight away, the insulin spike generated helps to push your body into an anabolic state.

in response to the OP you do want to lower your amount - i would stick to a meal of carbs upon waking, possibly a small amount pre training and carbs in ur PWO shake - the remainder of ur meals i wud incorporate proteins and EFAs

 


This is pretty much what I'm doing; carbs in morning, pre-workout & post workout meal (i don't have a shake). The other 3 meals are protein & fats. I suppose Chrisla is saying the Ketosis diet your body swtches from using carbs as an energy source to using fats instead meaning you lose more fat and still manage lift heavy weights. I'm a bit sceptical about the heavy compound lifts especially Deadlift as my heart races high which normally means your body tries to use carbs as a fuel source as fat can't be burned quick enough that's why you have a fat burning zone in cardio. 

Well I haven't done deadlifts for a while, but I still manage my BB rows of 140kg and squats of 230kg on this diet, same as on my diet with 500g of carbs.

Granted, when cardio is up to 90minutes daily I will drop a little strength, but nothing major.

Chrisla



Perhaps you are the one who needs to research first.

Try reading Dave Palumbo's diet thread. I assume you know who Palumbo is, owner of RX Muscle and has hundreds of clients, including in the past Toney Freeman (IFBB Pro)

Dennis Wolf, Freeman and countless other IFBB pros, not to mention normal bodybuilders have all used the Keto diet to great affect.

Take your head out of the sand and accept there is more than one way to diet.

Perhaps you need to stop arguing like an idiot and provide proper citations. You just said "Why do you think carbs are essential? They aren't." I asked you to provide names of people who train year round without carbs (meaning they would need to build muscle too and gain strength without carbs and you haven't done so).

It is you who needs to get your head out of your a$$ and provide scientific evidence .

The OP asked about dieting down, so his aim is to retain lean tissue and lose fat.

Nowhere in this diet have I advocated a Keto approach for the offseason.

^Exactly. Nobody is advocating giving up carbs forever! I asked about cutting, Chrisla said 'carbs are not essential' so obviously reading his response in the context of the question I asked at the start of this thread, as well as harmoniously with the rest of his replies, it's quite clear that he means 'carbs are not essential when cutting'.

john93 - why so hostile? No need for that kind of language and tone it's completely uncalled for!

No doubt a 10stone pencil neck

Ok people, can we debate pleasently please?  On the net you will get people making silly claims, but we can debate politely!

CitizenKane

john93 - why so hostile? No need for that kind of language and tone it's completely uncalled for!

That's a bit one-eyed of you isn't it? Who started by making an outrageous claim and then says take your head out of sand? Perhaps that is the kind of language and tone that is called for isn't it?

James


Ok people, can we debate pleasently please?  On the net you will get people making silly claims, but we can debate politely!

x2!

john93

CitizenKane

john93 - why so hostile? No need for that kind of language and tone it's completely uncalled for!

That's a bit one-eyed of you isn't it? Who started by making an outrageous claim and then says take your head out of sand? Perhaps that is the kind of language and tone that is called for isn't it?

Well in fairness, he said "take your head out of the sand" (which wasn't even directed at you!).

Whereas on the other hand, you said "take your head of your ass" and accused him of making "idiotic" comments. Two ways of saying the same thing, one polite, the other not so much!

The key is being prepared to learn new things in this game. If you are constrained by the accepted schools of thought and aren't prepared to challenge theories and try different things, how can you ever expect to get anywhere?

    

Chrisla


The key is being prepared to learn new things in this game. If you are constrained by the accepted schools of thought and aren't prepared to challenge theories and try different things, how can you ever expect to get anywhere?

There are other ways. There is stuff like body recomposition and carb-cycling but most people are singing "keto" like parrots. I haven't been around this forum for long but how many discussions on body recomposition or carb-cycling have you seen mate?

john93

Chrisla


The key is being prepared to learn new things in this game. If you are constrained by the accepted schools of thought and aren't prepared to challenge theories and try different things, how can you ever expect to get anywhere?

There are other ways. There is stuff like body recomposition and carb-cycling but most people are singing "keto" like parrots. I haven't been around this forum for long but how many discussions on body recomposition or carb-cycling have you seen mate?

Carb cycling works well, I agree with that.
More than one way to skin a cat. Keto is very easy to follow, I will be following it for 10weeks and then using a carb cycling plan for final 4weeks.

3 low days (100g carbs), 1 medium (200g), 2 lows and then a high (450g) and then repeat.

Do you prefer carb cycling then? Have you had bad experiences with Keto?

Chrisla

Carb cycling works well, I agree with that.
More than one way to skin a cat. Keto is very easy to follow, I will be following it for 10weeks and then using a carb cycling plan for final 4weeks.

3 low days (100g carbs), 1 medium (200g), 2 lows and then a high (450g) and then repeat.

Do you prefer carb cycling then? Have you had bad experiences with Keto?

Keto wouldn't work for me because of the practicalities involved. When I'm out, I can still "sneak in carbs" and they fit in with my goals.

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CHRISLA - you really need to do some research into your comments before you post
 
granted the ketosis diet has benefits - but your comment that 'you dont need carbs' - thats again just diabolical Carbs aren't essential, you don't need them, what is the issue with a statement of fact?
 
complex carbs are essential, even when losing fat! you cant train as efficiently with deplted muscle glycogen stores.... No they are not. They can be off assistance, but they are not essential
 
they help keep your blood sugar levels constant, this reduces fat storage and fatigue and promotes the release of insulin, essential for muscle development.  Easier to do this with less insulin i.e. no carbs
 
PWO you NEEEEEDDDD a source of quick carbs straight away, the insulin spike generated helps to push your body into an anabolic state. No it doesn't, the insulin is shown to be good at preventing catabolism, but not promoting anabolism, sufficient PWO protein is fine for growth

in response to the OP you do want to lower your amount - i would stick to a meal of carbs upon waking, possibly a small amount pre training and carbs in ur PWO shake - the remainder of ur meals i wud incorporate proteins and EFAs Agree with this, though upon waking is not needed IMO, around training should at least be a boost for glycogen stores

Timed carbs seems to be the best boat for many, though low/zero carb approach can definitely work for fat loss, particularly if re-feed based.

Personally would I attempt to gain on a zero carb diet? Yes - mainly to see what happens! I've also been gaining fine on my low carb approach so far.

With regards to glycogen reserves, I often wonder how much glycogen people think they can use up. You can store 1500-2000kcal+ of glycogen, if you are training for say 40 minutes, how many kcals of that do you think that you are actually going to use up...? Maybe a quarter?

This is where depletion followed by re-feeds makes so much sense IMO

Lyle mcdonald UD2 diet

Tony Barnes

Timed carbs seems to be the best boat for many, though low/zero carb approach can definitely work for fat loss, particularly if re-feed based.

Personally would I attempt to gain on a zero carb diet? Yes - mainly to see what happens! I've also been gaining fine on my low carb approach so far.

With regards to glycogen reserves, I often wonder how much glycogen people think they can use up. You can store 1500-2000kcal+ of glycogen, if you are training for say 40 minutes, how many kcals of that do you think that you are actually going to use up...? Maybe a quarter?

This is where depletion followed by re-feeds makes so much sense IMO

Body recomp and carb-cycling are preferred by many to keto. If you read this stuff from people who know their sh1t, then you can get calculators and spreadsheets which go down to the minute details.

I don't have time for those microscopic details but just have high, medium and low carb days and slot in strength training and cardio. There is none of the refeed days of keto and seems to be working for me.

john93 - What exactly is body recomp? I am admittedly a total n00b when it comes to cutting so I'm looking for all the info I can get!

Ballbag AKA onefatidiot


Lyle mcdonald UD2 diet

The UD2 is not for everyone. From the book description :-

Please note: the UD2 is an advanced diet for advanced dieters and is only for those seeking very low levels of body fat.  A male should be at 12-15% body fat or lower and females at 21-24% body fat or lower prior to considering the UD2.  As well trainees must have at least 6 months of consistent training in the weight room under their belt before they even consider the UD2.