Gyno from prolonged zma use?

Hi,, it's been over a year since I used any steroids and won't be doing so again, I hve been taking zma religiously everyday, and have been enjoying v good gains from training naturally, but.... A few weeks ago I noticed a lump had come up under my left nipple,, luckily I have letro left over and have been taking 5mg Ed and it's getting smaller,, but do you think it's possible that the zma has caused it or do you think i should see my doctor? Cheers

Highly doubt it. ZMA has shown not to have any effects on test levels and it certainly doesent aromatize or anything like that.
 
 

Vibora


Highly doubt it. ZMA has shown not to have any effects on test levels and it certainly doesent aromatize or anything like that.

Well, there are studies that show that Zink can have positive effects on Test., but no where on the scale where you would get gyno from it, besides people take it as an Anti-oestrogen, which it helps to certain extent.
 
SO it is impossible. ;)

IIRC, the only way zma would work is if you are deficient in zinc
 
but please do post up the studies on it boosting test since i've not seen then before

m118


IIRC, the only way zma would work is if you are deficient in zinc

but please do post up the studies on it boosting test since i've not seen then before

You are correct about Zinc deficency. Here are some studies, none the less.
 
"Om AS, Chung KW.Dietary zinc deficiency alters 5 alpha-reduction and aromatization of testosterone and androgen and estrogen receptors in rat liver, J Nutr. 1996 Apr;126(4):842-8."
Therefore, aromatase activity is greater and the amount of oestrogenreceptors is higher and at the same time androgenreceptors are lower.
 

Om AS, Chung KW.

Department of Food and Nutrition, College of Home Economics, Hanyang University, Seoul, Korea.

We studied the effects of zinc deficiency on hepatic androgen metabolism and aromatization, androgen and estrogen receptor binding, and circulating levels of reproductive hormones in freely fed, pair-fed and zinc deficient rats. Hepatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone was significantly less, but formation of estradiol from testosterone was significantly greater in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet compared with freely fed and pair-fed control rats. There were significantly lower serum concentrations of luteinizing hormone, estradiol and testosterone in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet. No difference in the concentration of serum follicle-stimulating hormone was observed between the zinc-deficient group and either control group. Scatchard analyses of the receptor binding data showed a significantly higher level of estrogen receptor in zinc-deficient rats (36.6 +/- 3.4 fmol/mg Protein) than in pair-fed controls (23.3 +/- 2.2 fmol/mg Protein) and a significantly lower level of androgen binding sites in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet (6.7 +/- 0.7 fmol/mg Protein) than in pair-fed control rats (11.3 +/- 1.2 fmol/mg Protein). There were no differences in hepatic androgen and estrogen receptor levels between freely fed and pair-fed controls. These findings indicate that zinc deficiency reduces circulating luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations, alters hepatic steroid metabolism, and modifies sex steroid hormone receptor levels, thereby contributing to the pathogenesis of male reproductive dysfunction. 

 
So it appears that the simple addition of adequate zinc to your diet will increase testosterone and the number of receptors fortestosterone, in addition to reducing estrogen and the number of receptors for estrogen, as well as preventing decreases in lh - leutenizing hormone - from happening.
 
 

Zinc status and serum testosterone levels of healthy adults.

Prasad AS, Mantzoros CS, Beck FW, Hess JW, Brewer GJ.

Department of Internal Medicine, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, Michigan, USA.

Zinc deficiency is prevalent throughout the world, including the USA. Severe and moderate deficiency of zinc is associated with hypogonadism in men. However, the effect of marginal zinc deficiency on serum testosterone concentration is not known. We studied the relationship between cellular zinc concentrations and serum testosterone cross-sectionally in 40 normal men, 20 to 80 y of age. In four normal young men (27.5 +/- 0.5 y), we measured serum testosterone before and during marginal zinc deficiency induced by restricting dietary zinc intake. We also measured serum testosterone in nine elderly men (64 +/- 9 y) who were marginally zinc deficient before and after 3 to 6 mo of supplementation with 459 mumol/ d oral zinc administered as zinc gluconate. Serum testosterone concentrations were significantly correlated with cellular zinc concentrations in the cross-sectional study (lymphocyte zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.43, p = 0.006; granulocyte zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.30, p = 0.03). Dietary zinc restriction in normal young men was associated with a significant decrease in serumtestosterone concentrations after 20 weeks of zinc restriction (baseline versus post-zinc restriction mean +/- SD, 39.9 +/- 7.1 versus 10.6 +/- 3.6 nmol/L, respectively; p = 0.005). Zinc supplementation of marginally zinc-deficient normal elderly men for six months resulted in an increase in serum testosterone from 8.3 +/- 6.3 to 16.0 +/- 4.4 nmol/L (p = 0.02). We conclude that zinc may play an important role in modulating serum testosterone levels in normal men.

PMID: 8875519 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

 
Etc., there are some more studies on it.
 

Bid

m118


IIRC, the only way zma would work is if you are deficient in zinc

but please do post up the studies on it boosting test since i've not seen then before

You are correct about Zinc deficency. Here are some studies, none the less.

"Om AS, Chung KW.Dietary zinc deficiency alters 5 alpha-reduction and aromatization of testosterone and androgen and estrogen receptors in rat liver, J Nutr. 1996 Apr;126(4):842-8."
Therefore, aromatase activity is greater and the amount of oestrogenreceptors is higher and at the same time androgenreceptors are lower.

Om AS, Chung KW.

Department of Food and Nutrition, College of Home Economics, Hanyang University, Seoul, Korea.

We studied the effects of zinc deficiency on hepatic androgen metabolism and aromatization, androgen and estrogen receptor binding, and circulating levels of reproductive hormones in freely fed, pair-fed and zinc deficient rats. Hepatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone was significantly less, but formation of estradiol from testosterone was significantly greater in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet compared with freely fed and pair-fed control rats. There were significantly lower serum concentrations of luteinizing hormone, estradiol and testosterone in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet. No difference in the concentration of serum follicle-stimulating hormone was observed between the zinc-deficient group and either control group. Scatchard analyses of the receptor binding data showed a significantly higher level of estrogen receptor in zinc-deficient rats (36.6 +/- 3.4 fmol/mg Protein) than in pair-fed controls (23.3 +/- 2.2 fmol/mg Protein) and a significantly lower level of androgen binding sites in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet (6.7 +/- 0.7 fmol/mg Protein) than in pair-fed control rats (11.3 +/- 1.2 fmol/mg Protein). There were no differences in hepatic androgen and estrogen receptor levels between freely fed and pair-fed controls. These findings indicate that zinc deficiency reduces circulating luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations, alters hepatic steroid metabolism, and modifies sex steroid hormone receptor levels, thereby contributing to the pathogenesis of male reproductive dysfunction. 

So it appears that the simple addition of adequate zinc to your diet will increase testosterone and the number of receptors fortestosterone, in addition to reducing estrogen and the number of receptors for estrogen, as well as preventing decreases in lh - leutenizing hormone - from happening.

Zinc status and serum testosterone levels of healthy adults.

Prasad AS, Mantzoros CS, Beck FW, Hess JW, Brewer GJ.

Department of Internal Medicine, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, Michigan, USA.

Zinc deficiency is prevalent throughout the world, including the USA. Severe and moderate deficiency of zinc is associated with hypogonadism in men. However, the effect of marginal zinc deficiency on serum testosterone concentration is not known. We studied the relationship between cellular zinc concentrations and serum testosterone cross-sectionally in 40 normal men, 20 to 80 y of age. In four normal young men (27.5 +/- 0.5 y), we measured serum testosterone before and during marginal zinc deficiency induced by restricting dietary zinc intake. We also measured serum testosterone in nine elderly men (64 +/- 9 y) who were marginally zinc deficient before and after 3 to 6 mo of supplementation with 459 mumol/ d oral zinc administered as zinc gluconate. Serum testosterone concentrations were significantly correlated with cellular zinc concentrations in the cross-sectional study (lymphocyte zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.43, p = 0.006; granulocyte zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.30, p = 0.03). Dietary zinc restriction in normal young men was associated with a significant decrease in serumtestosterone concentrations after 20 weeks of zinc restriction (baseline versus post-zinc restriction mean +/- SD, 39.9 +/- 7.1 versus 10.6 +/- 3.6 nmol/L, respectively; p = 0.005). Zinc supplementation of marginally zinc-deficient normal elderly men for six months resulted in an increase in serum testosterone from 8.3 +/- 6.3 to 16.0 +/- 4.4 nmol/L (p = 0.02). We conclude that zinc may play an important role in modulating serum testosterone levels in normal men.

PMID: 8875519 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Etc., there are some more studies on it.

good posts, very good in fact
 
however, saying addition of zinc will do x n Y without knowing if you have enough zinc, which one would hope if already taking a multivit/mineral is a little adventerous IMO

thanks for the replies, im gona stopping the zma, and had already ruduced the letro dose to 2.5mg ed, the only other thing i could think that had changed was a stronger minoxidil i started using (spectral dncL) i have actually stopped using spectral alltogether and am using rogain foam ( much better product imo )
 
anymore ideas?
 
cheers

m118

however, saying addition of zinc will do x n Y without knowing if you have enough zinc, which one would hope if already taking a multivit/mineral is a little adventerous IMO

Actually, I didn't say that, it was one of the researchers I believe. My mistake should've been in quotes. BUT supplementing 5-10mg is not going to have adverse effects. Since a lot of BB's use up to 150mg of Zinc, now that is dangerous. ;) Anything around 50mg over an extended period of time is unhealthy. :)

8pack_1979


anymore ideas?

cheers

You say its a year since you took steroids,is it possible that even after a year your test levels are out of whack,ie low and  estrogen levels maybe on the high side of normal.
have you had bloods done to check.

Tbh honest no I havnt ever had them checked, think that will be my next step,, it took 2 rounds of pct to get me feeling normal again, libido has been all good for at least 6 months,, will keep you posted

Update,, been to the docs, she did a quick check, doesn't think it cancerous and checked her bible and apparently minoxidil can cause nipple puffiness! So anyone using spectral dnc L beware .. Cheers

Off topic but can I ask why you'll not use again?
 
Personally weighing up a mild course atm and its rare you hear of people say never again?
 
Feel free to tell me to piss off if I have over stepped the mark. 

May sound strange and I only found a few other posts regarding this, but I did get some nipple soreness/sensitivity from ZMA. I didn't really think anything of it as it's just a mineral matrix. Perhaps it promotes some sort of estrogen rebound from a previous ph/steroid cycle? I stopped using the ZMA anyway.

Mark s no prob mate, after weighing up the pros and cons, I much prefer who I am off gear than on, also I like my hair and steroids and hair dnt mix with me unfortunately..

Gymmonkey, i think you're right,, I had a blast with some letro too, but was still taking the zma with it,, think i will stop the zma, and I have a doctors app 2mora asthe lump is definitely getting bigger and is now sore,

Cheers

Is your doc gonna treat you for gyno,or is she still trying to workout what it is causing it.from what ive read the longer you let the gyno develop,the more likely you will need surgery to remove it.
 

8 pack, in your avi is that you on or off a cycle?