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HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems!

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gym_will_fix_it
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2011/04/26 00:08:19 (permalink)

HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems!

Hi People,
 
Im 27, been bb for around 3 years and hit a plateu at the gym so decided to hit the gear.
Ive almost finished my first ever 12 week cycle and the gains have been great.
Here is what I have been doing:
 
Week 1-6 100ml Deca, 500ml Testoviron Entanthate
Week 7-10 100ml Deca, 750ml Testoviron Enanthate
Week 11-12 100ml Deca, 500ml Testoviron Enanthate
 
After around 4-5 weeks I started to notice what appeared to be gyno so I asked my supplier (he's been doing gear for years) what I should do.
He suggested I start taking some nolvadex to counteract the estrogen so I done 20mg a day for around 4 days until I started getting unbearable headaches and blurry vision. I told him about this and he had no further advice for me except to stop the nolvadex.
 
I asked if he has any clomid which apparently has less side effects and is slightly weaker than the nolvadex but still does the job and he said no.
 
I came off the nolvadex after 4-5 days because the headaches and blurry vision were too much and since Ive been ok, and the signs of the apparent gyno have pretty much dissapeared too.
 
My problem is that I dont really trust my suppliers advice anymore because when I told him about the headaches and blurred vision he pretty much turned his back on me which is fine because he probably doesnt want to get involved with my issues with the gear.
 
So now I need some advice on PCT. I have got a HCG pack which comes with both the powder and water vials and i still have the Nolvadex.
 
I was told initally that I should wait till 2 weeks after my last jab and start on the HCG (3 jabs in 9 days) and then 20mg of nolvadex for 2-3 weeks to complete the PCT.
 
Can somebody please advise me if this is correct? Also, I have access to clomid from another supplier, should I take a lesser dose of the nolvadex to avoid the crazy side effects I am getting or should I switch to clomid? If so, how should I take the clomid?
 
I would really appreciate any help at this time.
 
#1

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    Bigfella
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/26 09:30:37 (permalink)
    Hi mate, the doses were a bit too high for a first cycle and you have had bad advice and support throughout from reading that. Nolvadex should never be used for gyno with that cycle and an Aromatase Inhibitor would have been the thing to use.
    HCG is only to be used during the cycle (before starting PCT) it is only to correct any shrinkage of the Testes caused during their period of shutdown on the cycle and must be finished dosing 1 week before PCT should begin.
     
    Have a read of this article mate
     
    http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.aspx
     
    Bigfella.
    #2
    lightweight_newbie
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/26 16:12:00 (permalink)
    im on a test/deca cycle and ive read on many websites and forums that you cant use nolva for gyno on or even after a deca cycle as PCT. So ive had get an ai instead, should of researched a little more but its done now. i also agree with big fella its quite high dose for first cycle, i got wrapped for doing a high dose on second cycle but its still not even as much as your doing

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    #3
    gym_will_fix_it
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/26 19:11:48 (permalink)
    Hi Bigfella,
     
    Thanks for posting the link to your article, that was very helpful.
     
    I gather from reading it that the best thing to do for PCT is wait 2-3 weeks after the last administration of Deca and Testoviron and start a clomid cycle for 3-4 weeks. Is this the recommended thing to do in your opinion?
     
    Also, I have had some testicular atrophy while on the course so Im assuming it has shut me down pretty hard because now I have learned that it was a heavy dose for a first cycle; would the above PCT be sufficient to kick start natural test production and bring my testicles back to normal?
     
    The article says as you mentioned that the HCG should be used during the cycle, is it too late for me to use this considering I only have one week left till I complete the 12 week cycle?
     
    Also, I have started to notice the gyno kicking back in, do you have any suggestions for what I can do about this? Is there a particular Aromatase Inhibitor I should get hold of?
     
    I really appreciate your advice mate, feel really let down by my supplier as he hasnt given me good advice but then its my own fault for not double checking everything.
     
     
     
    #4
    gym_will_fix_it
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/26 19:18:20 (permalink)
    Hi 'Lightweight_newbie'
     
    Thanks for your message, can you tell me which AI you used and what the results were?
     
    And yes you are totally right, I should have done my research and I feel like a complete nonse for not doing so.
     
    I realised that I messed this up and I need to get it sorted so I went to my GP, who doesnt want anything to do with it, hence me being on this site looking for some support.
     
    If anyone knows a private consultant I can see please PM me, as I want my natural test back!!
     
    p.s, what did you mean by 'wrapped'
     
    Thanks mate
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    BjjFreak
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/27 06:41:28 (permalink)
    calm down, your natural test will be back eventually, this way or another...
     
    if you didnt notice any testicle atrophy, hit the clomid for 100 MG/day for 30-45 days along with 20 MG/day of nolva and continue the nolva for 2 weeks after you stop the clomid.
     
    if you do have atrophy, hit hcg at 1500 IU EOD for about 6-8 shots along with the protocol i listed above.
    im not sure that all the AAS is out of your body, and if this is the situation, the pct wont do much, wait another 2 weeks just to be sure and then hit the protocol...
     
    do this and you will be fine.
    even if you wouldnt have done it, eventually after few month your levels were propably back to normal. (assuming they were normal before cycle of course...)
     
    after the pct, wait 2 weeks, and do bloodwork for
    Testosteron free
    Testosteron Total
    E2
    LH
    FSH.
     
    if you want to be super sure you can do also this bloodwork right after you last hcg shot, and it will be an indication that your testes are responding. and if they do, the rest of the pct from there will be good...
     
    long post, but i hope it helpd.
    #6
    gym_will_fix_it
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/28 18:52:49 (permalink)
    Thanks for your advice guys, gna go with bjjs suggestion

    If anyone has any more suggestions on pct please do let me know as i prefer to avoid the nolvadex due to the blurred vision i was getting.
    #7
    BjjFreak
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/29 06:54:34 (permalink)
    if your meds are legit, and your HPTA is healthy (no hypogonadism/low levels to start with before touching AAS), this protocol will 99.9% get you back in action (there is no 100% in medicine :D)...
     
    also, if possible, keep us updated with your bloodwork resaults.
    post edited by BjjFreak - 2011/04/29 06:57:09
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    lilmighty
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    Re:HELP!! PCT for Testoviron & Deca - Nolvadex Problems! 2011/04/29 08:29:51 (permalink)
    u can still use nolva but 3 weeks after last jab, another thing people advice to run the test for an extra 2 weeks after last deca injection.

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