Helping someone with depression

Yeah actually yungdest your right and im wrong, ive read what i wrote and realized that it was a bit of a sweeping statement. If someone is depressed its not as simple as doing things to pick you up. Not something im an expert on tbh but i have helped people in the past.

Red Man

Blue_Lagoon3000

Incredible Bulk


I have found from experiance you cannot pull someone out of a hole.

x 2 but they can pull you in to one, I don't like people who are depressed.

Nothing against someone who is depressed but don't expect me to be hanging around with them if they are gonna moan all day.... If someone is depressed deep down but lives a normal life im not too bothered and will help pick them up etc, but if someone is 'properly' depressed then i steer WELL clear as they drag others down. Im an extremely positive person and negative thoughts are not what i need in my head.

Agree 100%

Ive never hidden my thoughts on depression...
The vast majority of the 'cases' of depression need to man up, or get off the sick and try and get a job...
Edit...
That wasnt helpful so, be positive and try to change the misery of the person. Positive attitude ftw!

Red Man, why do you post this stuff in every thread about mental health?

It's obviously offensive to anyone who knows a mentally ill person. And it accomplishes nothing. Don't you care that you're offending people whilst accomplishing nothing?

Blue is a bit doolally so I expect him to talk nonsense at times, I doubt he means any harm he just can't stop himself rabbitting on. You on the other hand present yourself as level headed on other topics. So learn to control yourself. These threads don't need your negativity or your spite

When you feel the urge to talk down on people with mental health conditions - stop yourself - you are able to do this I take it

Dr Z


I have a good friend who has depression , this depression is almost to be expected TBH considering the trauma they has been through
Recently they have been immersing themself in social activities , and good friends have really pulled together here , which is nice , but I have always had this hunch that this may not be "the best" thing in the long run , and it may be evading issues rather than dealing with them.
They have started getting counselling now , which is good IMO , But I want to be sure that my "I'm here if you need me , anc I'll keep an eye on you , but won't push things " approach is correct , or if I should be taking more of a pro-active approach in support, i.e. , "come on , we're going to go and do this / that ... "

Any thoughts / experiences ?

Dr Z has your friend been long-term depressed mate, or are they just naturally down because they are grieving? Obviously grieving is normal and even healthy, it would be a little worrying if someone was not miserable after their husband or wife died

If your friend is going through the normal grieving process, is still seeing friends, is undergoing grief counselling, and has mates like you who are there if she needs them, then I would say all is going as well as can be expected. People do deal with these things in different ways although I can see why you might be worried about them avoiding the real issues. Hopefully the counselling will see to that

If the depression extends indefinitely then it would be termed more along the lines of clinical depression, a depressed state which extends beyond the normal bounds of grief after tragedy. In that case you and other friends may need to be a little more proactive in encouraging your friend to seek more thorough psychiatric treatment so that they can move on

For now, from what you've said, it seems as if things are going as well as can be expected in tough times

My two cents as a long term depression sufferer. I havent read all the posts. I am saving Drabs in particular for a really long train journey!

What I suggest you do is let your friend know that everyone is there should they need support but do not force the issue. There is nothing worse than people hounding you on the phone and saying things like "It'll do you good to get out of the house". Whilstt the intentions are good generally If I want to go out I will arrange something.

When I have been hassled into meeting up with friends in the past I tended not to enjoy myself most of the time. Best to let them deal with it themselves and just be there should you be called upon

Quote Drab 4

"Blue is a bit doolally so I expect him to talk nonsense at times, I doubt he means any harm he just can't stop himself rabbitting on"


Im not mad, Just ask my camel Steven.

There is one obvious thing about true depression - people who haven't suffered from it do not understand it.  Therefore all logic goes out the window.  thats the first step to understanding it.

99.9% of people I know have no clue about my history of mental illness, my years on prozac etc.

However I've never once in my life taken a single day off work for it, even when it was very bad.  Because I know that the worst thing (for me) is to NOT be busy.  you end up thinking about things and that makes you worse.  Therefore you HAVE to do things to take your mind off of it.

Here is the first key, IMO, to understanding depression and why it isn't logic.  As a human, you rationalise things in your brain.  Logic dictates that you are in the western world, you may not be financially that badly off compared to many in the world, you may have a roof over your head, clothes, shelter etc.  Compared to many in the world, you are very lucky.  Therefore logic dictates that you shouldn't really be depressed.  Consequently, the battle in the depressive's mind is one that struggles with this, it is circular.  "Why am I depressed?  Life could be a lot worse, there are people dying of cancer, people starving in the world."  You then take that logic, and because it doesn't actually help you be non-depressed, it makes you MORE depressed.  "I shouldn't be depressed, yet I am."  Thus it is a viscious cycle and circle that increases your depression.

This is furthered by people who do not understand true depression who will come across with comments like "cheer up, could be worse" or "there are people far worse off in the world, you should be grateful for what you have" and "just smile and everything is better" and "if you are negative negative things will happen" etc, etc.  Those things make the depressive ultimately MORE depressed, usually. 

True depression (suicidal thoughts that are serious, thoughts of self harm, feeling at times of just bursting into tears for no reason, having no enjoyment of anything in life, etc, etc) is an actual condition usually with altered chemicals in the brain different to normal.  To say someone with true depression should just "man up" is like saying the heroin user to just "give up heroin" just like that - like anyone can do it and they are lazy and weak.  Or even like the diabetic to just "start producing your own insulin."  You cannot change your serotonin and other neurotransmitter levels just like that (and there is VERY strong evidence that proper depression have serious deficiencies in these areas).  To think that you can "just shake that off" just shows a lack of understanding of the disease.

Having said that, the people that are most vocal about their depression, take the most time off of work, are usually the ones NOT depressed, just being low, feeling sorry for themselves, and using it as an excuse to be somewhat lazy.  Not always, but often.  IME, its the quiet ones, the ones that never use it as an excuse (eg if it is really bad and they are really down at work just say they have a migraine or similar).  Most depressives don't want others to treat them differently etc, or even for others to know - partly because they don't think others will understand (which mostly they don't - its hard to understand unless you've had it, for the logic reasons I've given above - its an illogical condition).

Even though I believe the above to be true generally for most true depressives, there are varying forms of depression (some brough on by circumstances and even these can bring changes in your brain), some run in the family (runs in mine) and is linked genetically to a degree of susceptibility, and other times its just periods of being low.  One thing I find for most cases though, that routine, and keeping active and busy is the best remedy for it all - it occupies the mind away from being logical about an illogic condition and from thinking about things that make one more depressed.

I would say just make sure the person knows you are there for them, but don't treat them differently, don't give them that "I feel so sorry for you look," try to have a laugh with them, don't mention the depression much but do show a genuine care and concern for them at the same time.  Suggest things to do, tell them you want to do these things with them and so never make it look like you are doing it because you feel obliged to etc.  And never use the "things could be worse" or "there are people worse off than you" lines!

mcl

As usual MCL has taken the time and effort to write a well informed balanced post! Great post!

A true credit to MT (forgive my brown nosing just there lol)

I brown nosed the last top post too, but thats another classic. Do some work MCL :)

Very good post mcl, helped me understand it a bit more.

john_cappa

Its very easy climb out of a hole when you want to...... unfortunately from what my experience when your depressed you dont really care about being in the hole, the hole is normality so to speak

Yeah very well put. My experience of anyone with depression is that 'just getting out and having fun' is the absolute least desirable thing they can possibly think of. That's why they call it a 'hole' I guess: it's lonely and isolated but it's also safe and comfortable - a place to hide from all the stuff you can't deal with.

I don't know if I have any sort of clinical depression or whatever but I know I have felt like that^^^ many many times, more often than not recently.

drab4



Dr Z has your friend been long-term depressed mate, or are they just naturally down because they are grieving? Obviously grieving is normal and even healthy, it would be a little worrying if someone was not miserable after their husband or wife died

 

   My thoughts exactly ! ...No they weren't generally depressed , so I have been outting it down to grieving , but now they have seen a counsellor, who says they are suffering from depression (although I must say I thought this would be the GP's call rather than a counsellors ? 
        I think the point you make actually makes the point I have been concerned about all along but couldn't quite put my finger on , When does grieving become depression ?    -  Suppose we have to leave that to the experts to decide.  
     

With all due respect Blue you know fcuk all about depression and you are doing yourself a dis-service trying to discuss it.  

What experience of it do you have to claim any knowledge and thus perspective on what it actually is?  Like i've said before, telling someone to man up with full on depression is like telling someone who has shattered their leg in several places to walk it off.

Drab, i did edit my post to begin with to try and add some positivity.

My genuine feeling on this matter is to man up. Anyway, ill not mention anything on mental health again. I do not mean any harm when i post the same responce every time. Maybe im just to old school.

No worries ill stay out from now on.

Dr Z

drab4



Dr Z has your friend been long-term depressed mate, or are they just naturally down because they are grieving? Obviously grieving is normal and even healthy, it would be a little worrying if someone was not miserable after their husband or wife died

 

  My thoughts exactly ! ...No they weren't generally depressed , so I have been outting it down to grieving , but now they have seen a counsellor, who says they are suffering from depression (although I must say I thought this would be the GP's call rather than a counsellors ? 
       I think the point you make actually makes the point I have been concerned about all along but couldn't quite put my finger on , When does grieving become depression ?    -  Suppose we have to leave that to the experts to decide.  
    

The link i posted on the previous page may go as far as helping to explain this. There are stages of grieving which have to be gone through after experiencing trama

"A common problem with the above cycle is that people get stuck in one phase. Thus a person may become stuck in denial, never moving on from the position of not accepting the inevitable future. When it happens, they still keep on denying it"

When does grieving become depression? I imagine it varies hugely from person to person/context to context so it very hard to try and pinpoint or pigeon hole in any way

The thing to bare in mind any 'smart' comments ultimately can end in someone killing themselves.  Bare this in mind when anyone thinks its funny or clever to come out with advice that is meaningless as they simply don't grasp what the problem is.

Some good points made here, don't think I have much to add.

Hope it works out Dr Z

john_cappa

Dr Z

drab4



Dr Z has your friend been long-term depressed mate, or are they just naturally down because they are grieving? Obviously grieving is normal and even healthy, it would be a little worrying if someone was not miserable after their husband or wife died

 

My thoughts exactly ! ...No they weren't generally depressed , so I have been outting it down to grieving , but now they have seen a counsellor, who says they are suffering from depression (although I must say I thought this would be the GP's call rather than a counsellors ? 
     I think the point you make actually makes the point I have been concerned about all along but couldn't quite put my finger on , When does grieving become depression ?    -  Suppose we have to leave that to the experts to decide.  
  

The link i posted on the previous page may go as far as helping to explain this. There are stages of grieving which have to be gone through after experiencing trama

"A common problem with the above cycle is that people get stuck in one phase. Thus a person may become stuck in denial, never moving on from the position of not accepting the inevitable future. When it happens, they still keep on denying it"

When does grieving become depression? I imagine it varies hugely from person to person/context to context so it very hard to try and pinpoint or pigeon hole in any way

 


    Cheers , I somehow missed you first post , but just looked back and that cycle is actually uncanny in how well it relates to my friends situation !  I'll show them this as I think it may help to see that what they're going through is "normal"

Papa Lazarou


With all due respect Blue you know fcuk all about depression and you are doing yourself a dis-service trying to discuss it.  

What experience of it do you have to claim any knowledge and thus perspective on what it actually is?  Like i've said before, telling someone to man up with full on depression is like telling someone who has shattered their leg in several places to walk it off.

Fair enough, but refer to the top of the page.

I have issues, in the past i have had serious issues i guess you just have to work on them and move on.

I suppose being so great stops me from getting down.... <<< Joke

What does it mean to man up?

To get on with it? To resolve the problem on your own? Grit your teeth and bear it?

I'm genuinely curious?

It's probably a fair comment for somebody having a bad day, or affected because they didn't get a promotion, or had a row with the other half.

That's not depression. If you think it is then you are simply wrong and should expand your knowledge a little bit.

.

essex_chris


What does it mean to man up?

To get on with it? To resolve the problem on your own? Grit your teeth and bear it?

I'm genuinely curious?

It's probably a fair comment for somebody having a bad day, or affected because they didn't get a promotion, or had a row with the other half.

That's not depression. If you think it is then you are simply wrong and should expand your knowledge a little bit.

Indeed.


I'm speaking from experience from both myself and indeed my other half's ex.  He battled with it and died because of it.  Its a vary serious condition.  Its a clinically diagnosed and known problem.  Why do you think there is so many drugs around to control the minds of so inclined people?  Bare in mind peeps that people get sectioned due to mental issues, this being one.  Its not a joking matter, its not a laughing matter, its not one you can make guesses at.


You telling someone who is depressed to "man up" could result in their death.  Are you really that up yourself that you think that you have no responsibility to others?  If you don't understand, keep schtum.