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Illegal working hours

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2 the max
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2008/06/01 15:36:58 (permalink)

Illegal working hours

How many hours would you have to work, before it becomes illegal for them not to send you home? my friend reckons her mum has worked 3 days and nights straight, at the NHS, and i basically told her that her mums lying, as it would be illegal. Am i right?

#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    boxer81
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 15:41:58 (permalink)
    no people actually have to work that hard sometimes. its probably illegal but it happens, ive worked 2 days and night straight several times before and in my old job averaged 80-90 hours a week.
    #2
    Ouch
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 15:48:25 (permalink)
    LOL! can't believe you told someone that there mums a liar...
    #3
    2 the max
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 15:49:27 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: boxer81

    no people actually have to work that hard sometimes. its probably illegal but it happens, ive worked 2 days and night straight several times before and in my old job averaged 80-90 hours a week.

    but have u worked 3 days and nights straight? how do they expect u to perform after the 3rd day with no sleep

    #4
    defected
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 15:52:14 (permalink)
    Not sure how many hours your allowed to work. But do know that you can average your hours out over longer periods. Normally people think of only working so many hours in a week, but you can average it out over a period of months.

    I work 84hours a week, which would be illigal unless you opt out of some european working directive thingy. But I get the next week off, so my hours are worked out over a three months period, which comes to 42 hours a week, which is allowed.
    #5
    defected
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 15:55:00 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: 2 the max


    ORIGINAL: boxer81

    no people actually have to work that hard sometimes. its probably illegal but it happens, ive worked 2 days and night straight several times before and in my old job averaged 80-90 hours a week.

    but have u worked 3 days and nights straight? how do they expect u to perform after the 3rd day with no sleep


    I'm sure there will have been some long periods of sleep in there, on-call or such like. There's no chance you could not sleep for that long even with a shed load of illigal drugs. I've done 24 hour shift and trust me, they would not have you working much past that, you'd be a waste of space.
    #6
    boxer81
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 15:57:45 (permalink)
    yeah there would be some sleep in there, even if its just in a chair in the staff room for a coupe of hours.
    #7
    dawniesb
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 16:22:05 (permalink)
    I would find it hard to believe to be honest (as well as illegal) if this woman had been working 3 days and nights straight. The Working Time Regs came into effect in 2003 and now cover the working activities of Junior doctors from 2004.

    The Regs cover basic rights such as:

    The basic rights and protections that the Regulations provide are:

    a limit of an average of 48 hours a week which a worker can be required to work (though workers can choose to work more if they want to).

    a limit of an average of 8 hours work in 24 which nightworkers can be required to work.

    a right for night workers to receive free health assessments.

    a right to 11 hours rest a day.

    a right to a day off each week.

    a right to an in-work rest break if the working day is longer than 6 hours.

    a right to 4 weeks paid leave per year.

    If I have read the regs correctly there are a few exceptions to the basic rights but these appear to be doctors, armed forces and folks working on a sea going fishing vessel. However the regs do also states the working limits for these guys and none of them permit 3 days straight working.
    #8
    boxer81
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 16:24:00 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dawniesb

    I would find it hard to believe to be honest (as well as illegal) if this woman had been working 3 days and nights straight. The Working Time Regs came into effect in 2003 and now cover the working activities of Junior doctors from 2004.

    The Regs cover basic rights such as:

    The basic rights and protections that the Regulations provide are:

    a limit of an average of 48 hours a week which a worker can be required to work (though workers can choose to work more if they want to).

    a limit of an average of 8 hours work in 24 which nightworkers can be required to work.

    a right for night workers to receive free health assessments.

    a right to 11 hours rest a day.

    a right to a day off each week.

    a right to an in-work rest break if the working day is longer than 6 hours.

    a right to 4 weeks paid leave per year.

    If I have read the regs correctly there are a few exceptions to the basic rights but these appear to be doctors, armed forces and folks working on a sea going fishing vessel. However the regs do also states the working limits for these guys and none of them permit 3 days straight working.


    thats the problem, when work needs doing it needs doing and you then end up choosing to work more hours, but you also have little choice if there are deadlines to meet etc
    #9
    dawniesb
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 16:31:14 (permalink)
    I agree and Im not saying it doesn't happen, just stating that it shouldn't. Especially in the NHS, when patient care can, and has been put at risk.

    In some cases money is an excellent motivator!
    #10
    187
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 16:37:29 (permalink)
    I had to work 72 hours before and quite a few times ive worked 48 hours doing day and night shifts one after the other.
    depends how tight a deadline is... i always get a few days off work afterwards though.

    nhs can be like that, the way they did it with my neighbour who is a nurse was that they would make him work say 24, 48 or 72 hours then give him a day or so off work.
    its similar to the fact that if you work on a pc your meant to have a break every hour etc but instead they add up the break and give you a long lunch break instead.

    not sure how legal it all is but they do it, and they get away with it.
    #11
    Gym Gorilla
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 17:12:01 (permalink)
    lol try telling that to security firms. last week did 14 hours on sat without a break on the doors, 10 on monday, and 12 wed


    "eat, lift, live, BIG"
    #12
    The Kid
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 17:44:03 (permalink)
    The one area where there in NO flexibility is driving hours.

    I dont even think you can voluntarilly work more, i dont think its
    an option.

    If as an employer you push drivers to exceed there hours and a fatality
    occurs your into the realms of corporate manslaughter, which is somewhere
    you dont want to be

    Regards
    Martin
    #13
    jim2406
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 21:00:30 (permalink)
    i believe you can opt-out of the 48 hour directive thing. i'm a contractor, but employees of one of my clients have opted out of it, i think.

    can definately believe 3 days straight with some shut-eye caught during quiet periods, 3 days straight with no rest at all would be pointless.

    i've done a few weeks clocking over 100 hours, and 60-70 hour weeks are regular. this has been common for others, too.

    i'm a software developer. paid by the hour, thankfully. :-)
    #14
    gibbers
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 21:04:23 (permalink)
    She prob goes to sleep during that time, my mum used to work in a&e and used to sleep until she was needed
    #15
    lilbigman
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 21:18:47 (permalink)
    They tend to be on call when working at the hospital. It means they work over the night, have some rests then go home for a bit. They sign a contract which states they would have to do odd hours, however they get better pay for doing shifts. So no it's not illegal.
    post edited by lilbigman - 2008/06/01 21:19:28

    Lead guitarist and vocals of a one man band...
    #16
    Carl_T
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 21:33:27 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: defected

    Not sure how many hours your allowed to work. But do know that you can average your hours out over longer periods. Normally people think of only working so many hours in a week, but you can average it out over a period of months.

    I work 84hours a week, which would be illigal unless you opt out of some european working directive thingy. But I get the next week off, so my hours are worked out over a three months period, which comes to 42 hours a week, which is allowed.


    Same sorting thing with me i do 77 hours a week but get a week off, so its 7 on 7 off
    #17
    doc
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/01 22:31:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dawniesb

    I would find it hard to believe to be honest (as well as illegal) if this woman had been working 3 days and nights straight. The Working Time Regs came into effect in 2003 and now cover the working activities of Junior doctors from 2004.

    The Regs cover basic rights such as:

    The basic rights and protections that the Regulations provide are:

    a limit of an average of 48 hours a week which a worker can be required to work (though workers can choose to work more if they want to).

    a limit of an average of 8 hours work in 24 which nightworkers can be required to work.

    a right for night workers to receive free health assessments.

    a right to 11 hours rest a day.

    a right to a day off each week.

    a right to an in-work rest break if the working day is longer than 6 hours.

    a right to 4 weeks paid leave per year.

    If I have read the regs correctly there are a few exceptions to the basic rights but these appear to be doctors, armed forces and folks working on a sea going fishing vessel. However the regs do also states the working limits for these guys and none of them permit 3 days straight working.


    the only problem is though, this is the working time directive , and you can opt out of it if you want

    also the 48 hour week is averaged out over a 17 week rolling period , 11 hours rest is in any 24 hour rolling period . so reading between the lines they can squeeze you if they want
    also overtime payment is seen as valid compensation for you breaking the 11 hour rule

    also when they say they have been at work for 3 days , ive heard lots of nhs workers doing similar, ive done similar myself in telecoms , not strictly working every hour and having 4-6 hour sleeps
    per day while in work , which is classed as working time (compensatory rest) .yes you feel like sh1te , and yes it is borderline illeagal but you would need a 17 week diary with proof that you where forced to work it , also in environments like that people you work with are willing to work it , and you would be the odd man out and soon get your cards marked by sticking your neck out , unfortunatley thats the way it is
    #18
    sillynarbie
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/02 00:39:18 (permalink)
    I know people who work 100 hours a week. You can sign an opt-out clause, so it's not illegal in some cases. There's also a difference between being made to work 3 days/nights straight and making yourself work 3 days/nights straight.
    #19
    Rebel87
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    RE: Illegal working hours 2008/06/02 00:44:01 (permalink)
    I've worked 68 hours straight along with a few other lads at a time when our summer intake weren't able to get started soon enough / pass airside security (airport "ramp" work - basically everything involved in turning around planes from when they land, until they take off).

    As far as we understood it, it was no big deal - we were fed, watered and (shock horror!) thanked by the management (given most of us turned up expecting a 10hr shift). Thankfully we were able to get a few 20 min naps in the gaps in the traffic! We were a sorry sight at the end of it.

    The only other thing worthy of note was that we got paid well for this... We knew this when we started down that path, and its the reason we were there while some others were at home in bed, or out in their gardens enjoying bbq's.

    At the end of the day, you'd be surprised what people do for money... And working a few days on the trot is only the tip of the iceberg.
    #20
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