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 Is it a must or not !!


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Sustanon

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Is it a must or not !! 02 February 2012 13:16 (permalink)
Back in the days. I did not know about pct. And i did all my cycles with out doing pct. I remember my first cycle. It was 250mg test e and 400mg deca a week.  I was on for 6 weeks only. And went up 15kg on this cycle. And i did drop 7kg after coming off. My second cycle was the same. But this time i was up only 10kg. And i did keep 5-6kg's if i not remember wrong.
 
It did take some time to recover. But i had no problem doing so. Now everyone talk about doing pct. To keep more gains and to recover faster. And everyone say its a must to do pct. But is it really a must ??
 
I did join some forums first time 6 years ago. And i did pick up all the info about doing pct and bla bla bla. But to be honest with u guys. I do all ways lose x kg's after coming off. Even if i do a proper pct. So to say that u will keep more gains from doing pct. Is just bull**** if u asking me. I maybe recover faster but nothing more.
 
Please feel free to add a comment to this thread. Positive or negative it does not matter !!
 
 
 
Sust.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
#1
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    Liebow

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    Re:Is it a must or not !! 02 February 2012 13:33 (permalink)
    I agree.
    PCT is new hat. Some of my older veteran mates say "PCT? Whats that?" and they been eating Dianabol and injecting for over 20 years. They say its an utter waste of time.
    Me personally? I think its a break-through. A way you can recover quicker and maintain a few more lbs or kgs in a shorter time. Is it essential? I dont think so... depends on the individual. Some come off a cycle, and feel great within a month. Others, it takes a lot longer...
     
    But no... I dont believe its an essential, but I reccomend it as a "base coverer"

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    #2
      AlexGTR

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      Re:Is it a must or not !! 02 February 2012 16:14 (permalink)
      Ive only been on my PCT for a week and already feeling back to my self so in another 3 weeks should feel awesome.
       
      I would definetly run a PCT always and wouldnt think twice not to.
       
      #3
        Liebow

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        Re:Is it a must or not !! 02 February 2012 16:24 (permalink)
        See.... prime example.
        Your feeling great already and deffo be 100% (or almost) by the end of PCT. Whereas me, Im down and miserable for a good month or two after PCT ends. Im someone who needs PCT... maybe your not?

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        #4
          Nigalwayne

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          Re:Is it a must or not !! 02 February 2012 17:06 (permalink)
          AAS user's are more informed in this age,10/20 years ago it was the norm to just taper down doses towards the end of cycle.As you stated your first cycle 250 test e & 400 deca per week,who would honestly now run deca now at a higher amount than the test??? I would suggest nobody fella,but people/user are much more aware/knowledgeable in the present day,hence a emphasis on PCT protocols being used periodically.
          <message edited by Nigalwayne on 02 February 2012 17:08>
           
          #5
            Minger

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            Re:Is it a must or not !! 02 February 2012 17:47 (permalink)
            Back in "the day" one old bb said he used to run 200mg of deca on its own every 2 weeks!

            But Ye they would taper the dose up and down gear has been about since around the 1930's? And was in use for the olympics 1950's? So it's been around a long time before the pct meds were available.

            Minger
             
            #6
              Sustanon

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              Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 04:29 (permalink)
              AlexGTR


              Ive only been on my PCT for a week and already feeling back to my self so in another 3 weeks should feel awesome.

              I would definetly run a PCT always and wouldnt think twice not to.

               
              How old are u and whats ur cycle history ?

               
              #7
                Sustanon

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                Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 04:43 (permalink)
                Nigalwayne


                AAS user's are more informed in this age,10/20 years ago it was the norm to just taper down doses towards the end of cycle.As you stated your first cycle 250 test e & 400 deca per week,who would honestly now run deca now at a higher amount than the test??? I would suggest nobody fella,but people/user are much more aware/knowledgeable in the present day,hence a emphasis on PCT protocols being used periodically.

                 
                I know what u say. And have done it many times before. So i will have no problems doing so again. I have to change the subject. And talk about frontloading gear. I have done that only 2 times. And i will never do it again. Thats something new to. And it makes no sense to me.

                 
                #8
                  Bigfella

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                  Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 07:12 (permalink)
                  I would always do a PCT as it works and costs very little, but if you don't want to, you don't have to mate, your choice.
                   
                  Why don't you believe in frontloading? It works and does exactly what it is supposed to, but again personal choice is yours whether you do it or not.
                   
                  Bigfella.
                   
                  #9
                    Sustanon

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                    Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 10:38 (permalink)
                    Bigfella


                    I would always do a PCT as it works and costs very little, but if you don't want to, you don't have to mate, your choice.

                    Why don't you believe in frontloading? It works and does exactly what it is supposed to, but again personal choice is yours whether you do it or not.

                    Bigfella.

                     
                    Bigfella i do pct after all my cycles. I started this topic in a negative way but ment to be positive. Because i see so many pct threads here. And questions about this and that. Do i need pct after var only cycle is a popular question. And the answer is yes and no. But if u skip the pct it will just take some more time to recover. No one will die if not doing it. And the gains will be the same. So to say that pct is a must is wrong if u asking me. But again who am i ? I am just a regular guy i am not a doc. So why listen to what i say. I am not defending my self now. I just lay things out the way i see them.
                     
                    You need people like me. So u can point your finger and say. Thats the bad guy        
                     
                    Why i not believe in frontloading. Because i have done it 2 times. And the results are the same. Now everyone say that u have to do 500mg test a week to. I started out doing 250mg and seen many others doing the same. And we all did explode and was happy about the results. All this new fansy things i not believe in them.. Thats why !!
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     

                     
                    #10
                      Liebow

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                      Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 11:08 (permalink)
                      LOL so say Goodnight to the bad guy.... its the last time you'll see a bad guy like this let me tell ya...
                       
                      I think frontloading works for some, but not for others. It depends again on individuals. But with the scientific advancements and aids in recovery, in ways I think it would be irrational and quite a waste not to do it?

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                      #11
                        Bigfella

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                        Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 15:06 (permalink)
                        I don't think questioning stuff makes anyone a bad guy, we do what we do or believe in as it suits us. Whether people 'feel' they get the benefits doesn't really disprove that they really do work as there are so many other variables to consider but everyone is still free to do as they see fit for themselves.
                        Frontloading works plain and simple, whether people like it or see a difference doesn't matter, again we are all free to follow our own beliefs but factually it does work to get blood levels to the cycle peak faster which is the whole point of it.
                         
                        Bigfella.
                         
                        #12
                          Bigfella

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                          Re:Is it a must or not !! 03 February 2012 17:12 (permalink)
                          OK with a little more time on my hands now to respond to your Q's mate. To answer the initial question of 'Is it a must or not?' No, nothing is a must, but as there is plenty of evidence to support the fact that it will help with returning natural T levels to normal faster than leaving them to their own devices, it makes good sense to use a PCT protocol. Although levels will eventually self correct, it makes sense to use something which cost-effectively does so faster.
                          The sooner you have full natural T levels restored, the easier it is to maintain the gains made during the cycle!

                          Just a few studies supporting the elevation in natural T etc from Nolvadex dosing
                           
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...st_uids=3123401
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...st_uids=6193975
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...ist_uids=640052
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...st_uids=7250160
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...st_uids=6785950
                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...st_uids=6404663
                           
                          Regarding Frontloading - I often read people suggesting it doesn't work, but the facts are clear that it does work, it all depends what you are expecting from it really, if you assume you will make peak cycle strength gains from week 1, then that isn't the case. Frontloading is all about getting blood hormone levels up to cycle peak levels as fast as possible rather than waiting for the natural taper by straight dosing. It does this without question! The fact that people may feel the benefits of this protocol don't appear worthwhile to them is an individual thing, but the fact is, it did get the levels to peak values faster!
                           
                          Just for anyone reading this who doesn't understand Frontloading, here is a very simplified explanation I wrote many years ago on how it works.............................
                           
                          Here is an example to simplify the activity for anyone not a believer in how it works, we will take a straight dose of 400mg/week in our example and see how blood levels are affected through the first few weeks, we will, for ease of maths, ignore the ester weight which is irrelevant to the outcome anyway other than dose difference. We will assume the steroid has a half-life of 7 days.

                          Week 1 start 400mg administered, after 7 days, 200mg left, so 200mg dose delivered in that week.
                          Week 2 400mg admin to give total 600mg, after 7 days, 300mg left, so 300mg delivered in that week.
                          Week 3 400mg admin to give 700mg total, after 7 days, 350mg left, so 350mg delivered in that week.
                          Week 4 400mg admin to give total 750mg, after 7 days, 375mg left, so 375mg delivered in that week.

                          As we can see even by the close of play in week 4, we are only getting 375mg of steroid in that week, it has slowly risen from 200mg, 300mg, 350mg to 375mg by week 4, it will continue creeping until you are getting the full weekly dose in a single week.

                          Now let us view the same dose, only following a front-load, we will double the weekly dose for week 1 only, everything else will remain the same.

                          Week 1 800mg administered, after 7 days, 400mg left, so 400mg delivered in that week.

                          There you have it! We have achieved the peak cycle dose (not exceeded it) by the end of week 1 as opposed to still short at end week 4 with a straight dose, you can continue adding the dose and halfing and see it stays constant at 400mg/week delivered.....Result!!! The benefit of achieving peak doses earlier in the cycle? Obviously achieving the gaining part of the cycle earlier is the benefit rather than waiting 4 to 5 weeks for the dose to peak and level out somewhat.

                          A good rule of thumb to front-loading is to take the dose you are to administer each half-life and double it upto the first half-life period in the cycle, this will not overshoot your peak, so there is no dropping of levels at any later date. It is also beneficial to the maintenance of even blood concentrations to split that weekly dose up as evenly distributed through the week as possible.
                           
                          Hope that helps
                           
                          Bigfella
                           
                          #13
                            Sustanon

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                            Re:Is it a must or not !! 04 February 2012 07:34 (permalink)
                            ^^^^ Thanks for the input bro. Nice info there and u make it sounds so good. Think im in love  right now 

                             
                            #14
                              dementia

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                              Re:Is it a must or not !! 04 February 2012 10:13 (permalink)
                              Good studies Bigfella, but, i have yet to read a study which shows what happens after cessation of pct meds, would be a good read if there are any. Often wondered if they infact could cause negative feedback to hpt ? I have tried with, and without pct, and to be honest all that pct did for me was to delay coming off( ie feeling sh1t for a month) Not advising anyone not to do pct, just telling my experiences with pct. Not a problem for me now as i am on trt so dont have to go thro that anymore which for me was not nice. Although i had  mates who did`nt seem to have a problem coping  with shutdown, good thread this. Shows nothing is black and white with ped`s.
                              <message edited by dementia on 04 February 2012 10:15>








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                              #15
                                Keane

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                                Re:Is it a must or not !! 04 February 2012 10:26 (permalink)
                                Nigalwayne


                                AAS user's are more informed in this age,10/20 years ago it was the norm to just taper down doses towards the end of cycle.As you stated your first cycle 250 test e & 400 deca per week,who would honestly now run deca now at a higher amount than the test??? I would suggest nobody fella,but people/user are much more aware/knowledgeable in the present day,hence a emphasis on PCT protocols being used periodically.

                                 
                                Why not mate, low dose test seems to be in at the moment in ordrr to keep estro sides down when on things like tren. ok it's more experienced people that are sick of high test but lots stick to low test high npp for example.
                                 
                                I know why you are syaing test should be higher than deca though, for sex drive etc/
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                                #16
                                  Nigalwayne

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                                  Re:Is it a must or not !! 04 February 2012 10:50 (permalink)
                                  I agree upto a point,mate and I based my answer on a broader spectrum of AAS user's in general and not just the more experiecend.
                                  NNP as I understand(although not used)needs to be shot everyday,so yes NNP dose per week would exceed the test dose anyway??wouldn't it,I also seen that NNP needs a quiet heavy dose to be effective(but only repeating what I've read/seen).
                                  As for deca keane(I don't like it anyway) so would never advocate using it higher that the test,bearing in mind shutdown etc,I prefer tren in terms of gains vs sides as I find the sides are very overrated and defo don't effect me as much as the deca,but i accept your point fella.
                                   
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                                    Keane

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                                    Re:Is it a must or not !! 04 February 2012 11:29 (permalink)
                                    No I agree with you, I would stick to higher test also as I'm no where near some of the guys on here. Maybe they do it to see the best effects from the NPP or Tren (like muscle hardness for example). 
                                     
                                    I'm on 600 mg of test and 75 mg of tren ace eod at the moment.
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                                    #18
                                      Bigfella

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                                      Re:Is it a must or not !! 06 February 2012 07:51 (permalink)
                                      dementia


                                      Good studies Bigfella, but, i have yet to read a study which shows what happens after cessation of pct meds, would be a good read if there are any. Often wondered if they infact could cause negative feedback to hpt ? I have tried with, and without pct, and to be honest all that pct did for me was to delay coming off( ie feeling sh1t for a month) Not advising anyone not to do pct, just telling my experiences with pct. Not a problem for me now as i am on trt so dont have to go thro that anymore which for me was not nice. Although i had  mates who did`nt seem to have a problem coping  with shutdown, good thread this. Shows nothing is black and white with ped`s.


                                      Yes mate although sadly they never quite seem to do all the studies we would like to see which would be interesting. Although from the method of action of the meds, you can only assume that as long as the PCT period was long enough while it  blocked the ER's from the excess circulatory estrogen then there should be no issues once it is stopped and that if there was it would suggest the PCT dosing period wasn't long enough to cover the period of elevated estrogen presence. As you say though would be nice if there were some direct studies to demonsterate this.
                                      There are also so many variables involved which are often overlooked in peoples assessments and expectations of how well something performed.
                                      TRT is a surefire way of returning safely and consistently to basal values though
                                       
                                      Bigfella.
                                       
                                      #19
                                        Bigfella

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                                        Re:Is it a must or not !! 06 February 2012 07:53 (permalink)
                                        Sustanon


                                        ^^^^ Thanks for the input bro. Nice info there and u make it sounds so good. Think im in love  right now 

                                        LOL
                                         
                                        #20
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