It should NOT be this difficult!

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westbelfastguy
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Re:It should NOT be this difficult! 2012/02/13 18:48:31 (permalink)
It's ok, i probably took it a bit thick.
 
The core work was one session, certainly not what I do all the time. Believe it or not I think it's helped my compound lifting. My form has improved since I started paying more attention to my core, so there was a purpose to it.
 
My pt is far from being in mediocre shape, in his defence. I've gone from nearly `18st down to around 14 in less than a year. What he's had me doing has worked so far so i'm willing to say he knows what he's doing.
 
CitizenKane

WBG - I apologise for coming across as rude or condescending, it wasn't actually my intention. I was merely trying to illustrate a point.

You say this stuff is working, insofar as I'm presuming you feel your core is getting stronger and your posture is improving, but then you go on to say that most of your routine is based around compound movements. It is far more likely that it is in fact the latter that is giving you the benefits you're speaking of and you're just attributing them to this fluff core work. Nothing will work your core like heavy deadlifting, squatting, OHP, chins and the like. Add in some Oly lifts and all the better.

It's nothing to do with the fact that a PTer is telling you to do this, insofar as you are suggesting that there is undue hatred for the profession here. If you were doing these exercises of your own accord our advice would still be the same, but the fact that a PTer is telling you to do it just gets our goat because so often we see PTers, usually in very mediocre shape, getting clients to do all sorts of useless sh1te like this and it just gets a little frustrating.


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westbelfastguy
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Re:It should NOT be this difficult! 2012/02/13 18:51:25 (permalink)
Thanks Bollard, the way I look at it is everything is playing its own part and the compound weights stuff will always be my main focus, not least cos that is what I enjoy the most.
 
I played rugby for a few years, got into it late in life comparatively. I was a loosehead prop so I probably used my core a lot more then than I realised and have let it go since.
 
Bollard

I think the main reason you're gatting abit of grief is that this stuff always comes over as gimmicky - there's a lot of  equipment laying around in gyms that is there to make money, PT's putting together these sessions seems diverse and well though out, but is basically another form of sales. It's not really a dig at you, moreso a dig at the fitness industry.

Havig said all that, working on unstable surfaces can be very good for you depending on your aims, whether or not it's the BEST way to strengthen the core is debatable, whether it will improve posture is doubtful, but it will have outcomes that move you in the right direction.

If you are, as mentioned, doing a lot of compound work, I suspect this is giving you as many benefits as the unstable stuff, but it does all go in the bank. Posture wise, you may have to look at some biomechanical issues though, it's unlikely that your core is the cause of this, in fact quite the opposite, the posture could well be the cause of your weak core.

Based on your avatar - do you play rugby? 20 years of rugby have given me a very decent core, and especially lower back. I can't imagine it's a very pleasant experience taking hits if your core is not great.


#22
Bollard
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Re:It should NOT be this difficult! 2012/02/14 09:11:58 (permalink)
^ Yeah, at prop you certainly used your core, especially in the modern scrummage where the whole thing has to be controlled and held tight. Weak backs get found out. (hahaha! backs are always weak eh?)
 
This makes sense, you are probably struggling to engage the core, rather than it being weak. I can kind of see an argument for the stbility work in doing this.
 
I played flanker so I was invariably on the receiving end of the loosehead prop.
Ouch!
 
post edited by Bollard - 2012/02/14 09:15:48
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Rachfit
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Re:It should NOT be this difficult! 2012/02/14 13:25:25 (permalink)
we went over and trained the rubgy coaches at IRFU and have been consultants for them and their training methods.
 
One things we never got them to do was this faddy trend of PT prescibed and supposed 'core' work.
A common misunderstanding of training the core is to de-stabilise you first which goes totally againts the principle of training for stability.
IF something is unstable why would you de-stabilise it further? This is asking for an injury to happen because IF the deep trunk muscles are nor firing correctly then they wont be the ones doing the stabilising, the global muscles will have to do it instead. This leads to premature fatigue of these global muscles and a higher risk of them failing and you gaining an injury.
So the sensible progression is this:
  • ensure you musculoskeletal system is level and moving freely first.
  • next challenge your deep trunk musculature on a stable surface using the usual muscular progressions ie floor flat on your back to start (not crunching btw try bracing instead)
  • once you have trained your deep core to work through all of these progressions (and there are hundreds) then you might, if it is appropriate add some de-stabilisation
BUT if you do this last phase too soon you could be setting yourself up for an injury, if not now, then later on.
 
hope this helps
 
WBG - all of the guys who have posted here are genuinely wanting to help and give great advise mate

"If you cant explain it simply, you dont understand it well enough" Albert Einstein
Rach
DipITS MBCA
Specialist Biomechanics Coach 
 
#24
westbelfastguy
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Re:It should NOT be this difficult! 2012/02/14 17:16:23 (permalink)
Thanks Rachel, thats very good information i think.
 
I had no problem with constructive criticism when it was explained, but what annoyed me a little was the comments that weren't backed up with the reasoning behind it. If you had said what you just did at the start then I would not have gotten a little defensive.
 
I'm here to get help and advice and as long as it's constructive I always welcome it
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Rachfit
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Re:It should NOT be this difficult! 2012/02/15 16:37:02 (permalink)
westbelfastguy

Thanks Rachel, thats very good information i think.

I had no problem with constructive criticism when it was explained, but what annoyed me a little was the comments that weren't backed up with the reasoning behind it. If you had said what you just did at the start then I would not have gotten a little defensive.

I'm here to get help and advice and as long as it's constructive I always welcome it


it is often difficult to 'read' sarcasm which is often where misunderstandings come from but hopefully you are nearer to an answer now that several people have offered their opinions.
it is also quite difficult with limited information in the OP online as the subjects dicussed are of such a practical nature so the more information up front the easier it is to respond more accurately.
Good luck with your training buddy   

"If you cant explain it simply, you dont understand it well enough" Albert Einstein
Rach
DipITS MBCA
Specialist Biomechanics Coach 
 
#26
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