Jazz's Journal

I tried Madcow's routine (as recomended by Ice-Mach) today.

Loading phase- 4 weeks

Day 01- Work up to 5 reps maxes through 5x5
Squat
Bench
Row

Day 02-Use 20-25% less weight than Monday
Squat
Deadlift
Military Press
Chins

Day 03-Use 10-15% less
Squat
Bench
Rows

and it went something like this....

squat 5x5 at 80, 90, 100, 110 , 120 kg (just completed the reps so weight about right)

Bench 5x5 at 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 kg (too heavy so dropped it down to 80 kg)

Row 5x5 at 25, 35, 45, 55, 65 kg (weight just right)

Seemed alright bench I miscalculated though.

Using barbell bench is also impractical at my gym. I have to move a bench to the rack and have great difficulty unracking and racking the weight.

I'm a member at two gyms the better equiped one is thirty five minutes drive.

1. I'm uncertain of how to split my routine. I can only really train Tues, Wed, Fri, Sat three days a week.

Not sure whether its best to have a rest day between light and med days or heavy and light days ?

2. The light day has four exercises all of which use the same item of equipment (could be a problem at the gym), and squats and deads on the same day. Would it be detrimental to the program to drop the light squat and add another upper body exercise instead ?

I find my lower body to be more developed than my upper.

3. I managed today's routine in less than 45 mins. should I take longer rest between sets ?

1) med and light I would say
2)Squats are the corner stone of this routine mate
3)Nah thats normal

Pure sexiness
READ THIS BEFORE MAKING ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ROUTINES

I did my light day today

Squats 5x5 90kg (felt good and relatively easy + quite explosive)

Deadlifts 5x5 105 kg (very draining last two sets especially)

Military Press 5,5,5,5,3 45 kg (first three sets ok only just got reps on set four and just managed three on set five).

Chins (close grip) 5,5,5,5,4 15kg (assisted weight) (again didn't quite complete the reps for the last set).

Notes :

I completed the session in about 45 mins (including warm-up).

I'm not too keen on squating and deadlifting in the same session might drop the deads + add some ab work and have longer rest periods. Would this make a huge difference ?

The 'light day' seemed much more intense than 'heavy day' and by the end I felt pretty exhausted. Probably better to train Mon, Wed Fri but I don't think this is possible.

Felt I was pushing the weight too fast on military press and wasn't well balanced.

Overall I felt I rushed the routine a bit.

ORIGINAL: Jazz
I'm not too keen on squating and deadlifting in the same session might drop the deads + add some ab work and have longer rest periods. Would this make a huge difference ?

NO, don't even think about it!!! LOL I don't think Ice will be too pleased!

The 'light day' seemed much more intense than 'heavy day' and by the end I felt pretty exhausted. Probably better to train Mon, Wed Fri but I don't think this is possible.

Yes, mon, wed, fri would be better. But if thats not poss, I'd go...

Mon - off
Tues - Heavy
Wed - off or Light
Thur - off
Fri - Light or off
Sat - Medium
Sun - off

You've chosen a good routine mate either way!

My New Journal . .

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/tm.aspx?m=3894787 

ANyone got a link to this routine in its original form?

My Journal: "El-Supremo does Bill Stars 5x5"
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_524613/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

Back on this routine after recovering from a bad cold. I only managed to train twice last week.

Tuesday's Heavy Routine was as follows....

Squat (top weight 130 kg found this really heavy managed just three reps)

Bench (last set 85 kg just managed last rep)

Row (top set 75 kg. I accidently put 85 kg on and wondered why it felt so heavy )


Todays Light Routine

Squat 97.5kg 5x5

Dead 110kg 5x5

Press 45 kg 5x5

Close-grip chin 5x5 (3rd setting assisted)

Today went quite well. I was really wiped out after deads. But managed Military Press ok. Still struggling to get the reps on the last two sets of assisted chin-ups though.

Light day seems more demanding than heavy or med day. I was really exhausted at the end.

Sat

Med Routine

Squat 110kg 5x5 (nice and steady)

bench 72.5 kg

Row 62.5 kg


A fairly good day. I didn't feel overtaxed

Heavy Day

Squats 5x5 (last set 130kg)

Felt much stronger this week managed all the reps by resting a bit between reps and really getting the form tight. The last rep of the final set was taxing. The final couple of reps were just to parallel. I think that if I went a bit lower that would help bring the hams and glutes into play a bit more and I'd squat much better.

Bench 5x5 (last set 90 kg)

Only managed three reps on the last set but increased weight 5kg since last week. I'm thinking of pyramiding the weight upwards in 5kg increments rather than 10 kg. I only feel the mucles working when I get to about the 3rd or 4th set.


Row 5x5 (last set 75 kg)

About 3 reps again on the last set. Prob increased the weight too much again....

Light Day

Squats 97.5 kg

Deadlift 115 kg

Military Press 47.5 kg

(supposed to be anyway. I loaded one side heavier than the other, and only noticed after the fifth set.)

Close Grip Chins (3rd machine setting) 5,5,5,4,3

Again I find light day really exhausting. I needed to lie down afterwards. I think I should up the carbs next time.

Med Day

Squats 5x5 (112.5kg)

Good but felt a bit light headed

Bench 5x5 (2x5 75kg, 3x5 77.5kg)

Row 5x5 (3x5 62.5kg, 2x5 65 kg)

No problems with any of the lifts. Will probably do light day after heavy day next week since I felt a bit drained today after yesterday.

Hi mate i have been doing a similar type of routine. Personally i don't think you need to pyramid sets at all. Just do the heaviest 5 sets you can, especially the heavy day. Afterall you are loading. On the medium day i do pyramid squats to my 5 rep max as it is the 3rd squat session of the week. Also i found that benching twice a week was not at all benficial and i have swopped the second bench session for dips and my bench has shot up.
In terms of rest, i personally need two days to recover after heavy day, then light and medium days i can do in two days if necessary without any problems.
But stick at it and you should get great gains.

Shez

I know what you mean about the pyramiding. Somehow it seems the first three sets are too easy especially with bench and row. I don't find myself too tired though and can easily squat three times a week.

Should I be accumulating more fatigue ?

I've been on Frankie's routine before and that really burnt me out. I had really good strength gains though, benching 5x5 with 95kg and squating 150 kg. I've never quite got back too this level yet.

I'm going to stick with this routine as written for the moment. Maybe cutting the pyramid sets to 5kg increments on Bench and Row.

I don't want to mess with the routine too much but was considering putting deadlifts first on 'light day', since I find these highly demanding after squats.

Cheers

Jazz

Heavy Day

Squats 5x5 (top set 132.5 kg) No problems this week. I sat back a lot more into the lift and that really helped.

bench 5x5 (90 kg max) Only managed four reps this week.

Row 5x5 (75kg max) completed all the reps, only just.

I managed to get the bar to the stomach but couldn't retract my scapula for very long.

Hi Jazz,

Your not a Jaspal or Jasvir by any chance?

Got any stats? Height, weight etc.

Good luck with the Journal.

Jimbo

Formerly 'lil_jimmy'

No I'm a Jez or Jeremy

Here are my stats...

Height 5ft 10.5

Weight 87 kg (approx)

Chest 38 inch

Arms 15 inch flexed

Quads 25 inch (fullest part)

Calves 17 inch

Waist 34 inch

Hips 44 inch (not sure that seems massive)

ORIGINAL: El-Supremo

ANyone got a link to this routine in its original form?

You can find some useful info overhere: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215&page=1&pp=20

Light Day

Squats 5x5 (100 kg)

Fairly easy, but felt much harder than last week

Deadlifts 5x5 (117.5 kg)

Managed the reps ok. First set I leant back too far and fell backwards and had to throw my leg back to balance. My back muscle also 'locked' after the 3rd set. It took about four minutes for the stiffness to go and I could carry on.

Military Press (47.5 kg)

Fine only just made the last rep.

Chins (3x10kg machine assist then felt strong so did one set on default weight and only managed three reps. Final set went back to 10 kg and managed four reps).

So 3x5x10 kg, 1x3 default, 1x4 default.

My lower back seemed to protest today. Squats and then deadlifts really affects me.

Found out my weight and bodyfat (electric impedance)

14 stone 3 lbs (90.45 kg) 21.5 % bodyfat

Think I've put on quite a bit of fat and hopefully some muscle

last weighed myself about two months was about 13 stone 10 lbs

Med Day

Squats 5x5 (112.5kg)

Rows 5x5 ( 3x65 kg, 2x67.5 kg)

Bench 5x5 (77.5 kg)

Not a bad day. Had to do rows as second exercise since someone was using the bench. Didn't make much difference though.

Heavy Day

Squats 5x5 (last set 135 kg)

Last set rotated my torso a bit and hit the rack.

Reps should have had more depth.

Bench 5x5 (last set 90 kg)

Completed the reps this week. had someone spotting which helped. Possibly went through the reps a but fast though.

Row 5x5 (last set 77.5 kg)

Struggled on last set only managed three reps

Light Day

Squats 5x5 (105 kg)

Used a bit more weight than normal on squats will see if that affects my Med day tomorrow.

Deadlifts 5x5 (120 kg)

They were tough but achievable. Deadlifts are the one exercise that really fatigues me

Military Press 5x5 (50 kg)

Not bad maintained good form throughout

Close-Grip Chins 5x5 (3rd setting on assist)

Only just completed the reps after quite long rest periods. I was using a different machine from last week (different gym).


The workout took about an hour about 5-10 mins longer than normal.

Med Day (last Day of Loading)

Squats 5x5 (115 kg)

Again I felt quite faint after yesterday but managed the reps.

Bench 5x5 (77.5 kg)

Not too taxing

Row 5x5 (65 kg)

No Problem

14 stone 06 lbs 21.7 % bodyfat

Deload Week Day 01

Squats 3x3 (135 kg thinking back it may have been 130 kg)

Bit unsteady on last set. Right knee went inwards and I hit the bar on the rack (left side) on another rep

Bench 3x3 (90 kg)

No problems

Row (77.5 kg)

Quite difficult to bring the scapula together on last set.

Light Day

Squats 3x3 (95 kg)

Deadlifts 3x3 (120 kg)

Military Press 3x3 (50 kg)

Close Grip Chins 3x3 (1st setting on machine)

Nice light day. Felt like I hardly did anything though

Felt like I hardly did anything though

Nice one mate, I think that's the best way to be at the start of the deload and intensity phases. I've just finished a full cycle of this programme and imo one of the keys to success is to set your targets at the start and keep your start weights (at the beginning of the cycle) realstic. It's a tough programme squatting 3x per week, and you will burn out if you are hitting max 5x5 all the time.

Good luck with the rest of the programme.

perry's commando adventure

Targets:

There is only one: green lid '06

Cheers

The one thing I haven't done is set my end goals. As in what weights to achieve by the end of the cycle.

The other thing is that during the intensity phase I'm tempted to add 5 kg to my lifts especially on 'light day'.

Would this be ok or should I be more conservative and add 2.5 kg instead ?

I found that the first cycle of this programme was a lot about seeing how I would react to it. It's difficult to set goals without having done it before - that's one of the reasons I'm doing a second cycle. The main thing about it is that it seems to get your body into a state of momentum i.e. each week you are increasing the weight and it almost becomes normal. However, that increase has to be sustainable. Presumably, you have an idea of you max weights for reps. Look at them and try to decide where it is realistic to be at the end of the cycle. I would say 2.5kg per week is sustainable (e.g. on bench), 5kg might be a bit unrealistic. And you have to be realistic. If you start the programme at you 5 rep max, you can't really expect to be lifting 10/20kgs more than that in 4 weeks time. Feel your way, and keep your eye on the goal, the main thing is to keep moving forward.

Use the light day for what it is. I do a couple of exercises that I don't do on other days (e.g. dips) but the exercises you are doing 3x per week, go light on. The big day is Friday where you increase for the triple and the Monday where you lift that weight for 5.

perry's commando adventure

Targets:

There is only one: green lid '06

How long you planning on staying on the prgramme Perry? I start the intermediate version in about half an hour.

My Journal: "El-Supremo does Bill Stars 5x5"
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_524613/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

For another cycle, and then we'll see, so that will probably last another 8-12 weeks depending on how things go with my bust hamstring.

What do you mean by the intermediate programme?

perry's commando adventure

Targets:

There is only one: green lid '06

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

You dont do the deload phase you just keep adding weight till you cant any more.

My Journal: "El-Supremo does Bill Stars 5x5"
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_524613/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

Good luck with it mate, and keep us updated - it will be interesting to follow your progress. As I said, be realistic, set goals and start erring on the lighter side. It might take a bit of pride swallowing, but better that and see your gains progress steadily than burn out early doors.

perry's commando adventure

Targets:

There is only one: green lid '06

Heavy Day

Squats 3x3 (137.5 kg)

Not too bad, mostly to parallel though. Was a bit worried about going too low. I'm conscious of my back starting to round if I go to low

Bench 3x3 (92.5 kg)

First set felt real heavy then I got used to the weight.

Row 3x3 (80 kg)

Felt real heavy difficult to bring the scapula together.


3x8 high to Low woodchoppers

(not sure of weight)

1x8 low to high woodchoppers

Had some time left over so I did some 'core movement' exercises plus a couple of sets of planks.

Light Day

Squats 2x3 95 kg, 1x3 100 kg (forgot to bring my 1.25 kg weights)

Deads 3x3 (125 kg)

Military Press 3x3 (55 kg)

Close Grip Chins 3x3 (bodyweight)

No problems with any of these. I increased the weight 5 kg on all but squats.


3x8 High-Low Cable Woodchoppers (36 kg)

2x8 Low-High Cable Woodchoppers (36 kg)

Had loads of time left. Completed main workout in 30 mins so did some core work as well.

Heavy Day

Squats 3x3 (145 kg)

Went a bit deeper this week. Still strong lifting though

Bench 3x3 (95 kg)

Had a spot on the last set which made the weight feel real light.

Row 3x3 (82.5 kg)

Felt really heavy. Again the last couple on inches of the lift were challenging. I'll stick with this weight next time since I'm not 100 % confident with the reps.

Did some Woodchoppers again 3x8 (45 kg) + a couple of sets of planks.

Light Day

Military Press 3x3 (57.5 kg)

Squats 3x3 (100 kg)

deadlifts 3x3 (127.5 kg)

Close grip Chins 3x3 (Bodyweight + 2kg)

Had to do pressing first since squat rack was being used

Heavy Day

Squat 3x3 (142.5kg)

bench 3x3 (97.5 kg)

Reps went 2, 2, 1 The weight felt too heavy. I dropped the bar after the first set But managed to climb out from under the bar. I then sensibly used a spotter for the last two sets. I over did it a bit and went to failure.

Row 3x3 (82.5 kg)

Still not very good strict reps. I'll stay on this weight for a while I think.

I was still a bit fatigued from Saturday. Could have done with an extra day of rest.

You fairly well into this cylce now mate, so I wouldn't worry unduly if you are reaching levels where you are failing in a set or two. Looks like everything is still progressing well, and you have some impressive lifts there - well done.

Went a bit deeper this week. Still strong lifting though

Are you going to full depth on the squats?

perry's commando adventure

Targets:

There is only one: green lid '06

Ass to the grass, bitch!

Another Bill Star boy i see....

Cheers...

Are you going to full depth on the squats?

I try to go as far as I can without my lower back rounding which is about 2-3 ins below parallel at a guess

Light Day

Squats 3x3 (100 kg)

Deadlifts 3x3 (130 kg)

Military Press 3x3 (60 kg)

Close Grip Chins 3x3 (bodyweight + 5 kg)


3x8 Woodchoppers (40 kg)

Planks on floor and Swiss Ball

Heavy Day

Squats 3x3 (145 kg)

Not so confident this week. Struggling to keep arch and squat low. Had spotter on last set.

Bench 3x3 (97.5 kg)

Much better than last week. Completed the reps with no problem. Had a spotter on last two sets

Rows 3x3 (82.5 kg)

Still struggling with this lift. Pulling the scapula together is still giving me problems. Might reduce the weight next week ?