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MGF/IGF-1 LR3

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welshmatt983
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2010/01/11 23:26:11 (permalink)

MGF/IGF-1 LR3

Thinking of trying out this stack as a bridge between current and next cycle, I train 3 x week and was going to do both of these on training days only.
 
I was thinking...
 
IGF-1 LR3 (Pre-Workout, into muscles to be trained)
MGF (Immediatly post workout, into muscles trained)
 
I am new to both of these, have ran GH a few times in the past for around 6 months at a time, want to try something new, mainly to hold as much gains as poss from my steriod cycles and add some new muscle cells at the same time.
 
Does this sound ok to you guys?
 
From what I gather MGF is best injected immediatly post workout due to the short half life. Some say IGF is better post workout but I think as its the LR3 type might be better injected pre-workout so its in your system already to repair tears etc from your workout, Im no expert on peptides so your opinions would be great?

"Get big or die trying"
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    welshmatt983
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/11 23:46:00 (permalink)
    .... was either going to be as above or MGF immediatly post workout, IGF-1 LR3 30 mins post workout.

    "Get big or die trying"
    #2
    welshmatt983
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/12 16:43:36 (permalink)
    Anyone?? :P

    "Get big or die trying"
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    leerc
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/12 20:34:53 (permalink)
    my protocol goes against the tinterweb way of thinking but its what info was around when i first used it and it worked well so i stuck with it-dont fix whats not broke and all that

    70mcg bi latterally into the muscle that you training the next day, say you doing back and bi tomorrow-today you,d jab 35mcg in each bi and tomorrow train them, ive done this with both mgf and peg mgf and found they both worked well

    ive never used igf so i cant comment on that

    started at 68kg
    PB,s
    bench: 170kg 3 reps cg 155kg single
    deadlift: 5 reps 245kg 1RM 260kg @knee height
    squat: 200 kg 2 reps
    clean and press 100kg 2 rep 110 1RM
    weight:108kg bf 14%~
    #4
    welshmatt983
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/12 21:09:02 (permalink)
    Ah right yeah I've read you do the evening before with peg MGF but you do it immediatly after traning if its the normal MGF?

    How did you rate it mate?

    "Get big or die trying"
    #5
    StillBulking
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/13 00:57:50 (permalink)
    I've read on other forums that MGF is the muscle the night before - and IGF immediately after. I've also read that preworkout is ok for IGF aswell - as it simply repairs during the workout.

    To be honest I'd scope around at other forums with more active peptide discussions.

    I'm starting IGF in a week, plan to do it 15 mins preworkout. My last cycle was immediately post workout (in the gym, little dodgy)... but I nicked a bicep vein once and it was bruised for nearly a month. So look out for that because it looked awful... going to be injecting biceps at weird angles this time round to avoid any hidden veins :)
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    leerc
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/13 09:40:06 (permalink)
    the info i got was for peg mgf and the second time i went with the same idea with mgf, i rate it very highly its a nice addition to anything, ive used it during pct and on cycle and found they worked well for both

    ^ive nicked a vein before and it does take ages to go away

    started at 68kg
    PB,s
    bench: 170kg 3 reps cg 155kg single
    deadlift: 5 reps 245kg 1RM 260kg @knee height
    squat: 200 kg 2 reps
    clean and press 100kg 2 rep 110 1RM
    weight:108kg bf 14%~
    #7
    mick_the_brick
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/13 10:53:12 (permalink)

    IGF preworkout is not an issue as the halflife - the IGF will still be active after workout.

     
    www.ugm.org.uk
     
     
    #8
    welshmatt983
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/13 10:56:31 (permalink)
    Great, Im going to try it during PCT with the IGF, if I like it I'll do it between cycles all the time then, my mate is a big fan of IGF-1.

    "Get big or die trying"
    #9
    Biopharm
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/13 23:15:44 (permalink)
    IGF-1 Lr3 seems to work well when taken once every 12 hours. For example, 30 mcg in the morning then 30 mcg in the evening. Keeping the systemic level of this peptide constant is all that a protocol requires as the half-life is proposed to be >12 hours. Introducing IGF-1ec and or IGF-2 also improves results markedly. Results depend greatly on the quality of the product used; clinical grade peptides are not cheap; the research grade material is very hit and miss.
     
    #10
    SATRAT
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/21 15:55:35 (permalink)
    Found this on a US site. I don't know if the info is correct but its a good read.

    Most of us are familiar with the peptides Insulin-Like Growth Factor (IGF) and Mechano Growth Factor (MGF). We know things like IGF creates new muscle cells and helps drop body fat and MGF helps facilitate this muscle growth and fat loss.

    In the beginning:

    When IGF first made its way onto the bodybuilding scene most people were injecting it every day and noticed that after somewhere around 30 days the effects of IGF wore off. This was blamed on receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization". To combat this people started a 5-on 2-off rotation and then went to a post workout only rotation which extended the time on IGF an additional 10-20 days. But the problem with the lack of "receptor response" was still present.

    Then MGF came onto the scene. MGF was suppose to be the next best thing in bodybuilding. It was suppose to be more anabolic than AAS and better suited for building new muscle than IGF, the problem was that it wasn't. Because of its instability it was quickly broken down once injected into the body, to prevent this PegMGF was created. This new MGF was now able to survive in the body from anywhere in the 1-3 days. Combining this new peptide discovery with IGF was suppose to be able to make all of us the next Mr. Olympia. But what happened? Why do we not see a flood of new pros?

    What happened:

    In theory these two peptides should cause some great results, the problem is they do not work together very well unless your timing is spot on (I will go into greater detail later). In short stem cells in the presence of MGF will cause the cells to split and multiply. When the cells are multiplying they cannot form new tissue and the effects of IGF are completely blocked. So the two together are not very compatible.

    Then why not just use IGF? Well most do use IGF only and get great results, but there is that pesky business of receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization" and you have to end a cycle of IGF after 30-50 days and there is no way to prevent it... or is there?

    The science:

    In a natural system (Our Body) we have peaks and dips with MGF and IGF levels. The reasons for these peaks and dips are to create the ideal amount of cells to repair and create new tissue. After strenuous exercise the levels of MGF in the body (more specifically in the muscle just trained) increase dramatically and there is a dramatic decrease of IGF levels. The reason for this is because MGF causes stem cells to proliferate (split and multiply). This process ensures that there are enough cells available to make repairs and to create new tissue in order for the tissue to function efficiently and properly (in this case skeletal muscle tissue). As mentioned above in the presence of MGF there is no need for IGF because it is rendered useless and cannot activate the stem cells, so this explains the bodies response to decrease IGF levels.

    In 12-36 hours MGF levels begin to drop and there is a direct correlation in the rise of IGF levels within the body. Stem cells have proliferated and now the IGF will bind to the proper receptors and cause differentiation (force the stem cells to form into a specific cell for a specific tissue type). This process repeats every time you exercise and keeps the natural system in an efficient state.

    When flooding the body with these artificial peptides a person will change this natural system dramatically. A person using MGF only is causing stem cell proliferation while at the same time preventing IGF to perform its duties of creating new tissue from those newly created stem cells. A person using IGF only is depleting the supply of stem cells at a rate much faster than the body can keep up, leading to a depletion of available stem cells and not receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization."

    This sounds like a lose-lose situation. You are throwing off your body's final tuned muscle repairing mechanism, depleting valuable stem cells or creating too many stem cells for your body to deal with. Why bother?

    The climax:

    The reason why we bother is because we want to reach or goals. We want to be the biggest bodybuilder, the best powerlifter or whatever it is that we are training so hard for. These peptides are a great addition to our ****nal, but learning to use them properly is the key to utilizing their benefits.

    The key is retraining the way we think about MGF and IGF. We have to understand that we are dealing with the creation and depletion of stem cells that are going to be responsible for our muscular growth. Our bodies do not have a constant supply of these stem cells and our bodies will not naturally utilize all of the stem cells it has created. Since we are trying to artificially manipulate the amount and utilization of these stem cells we have to look at this is a different manner.

    While we may never get the exogenous MGF and IGF levels just right so that we may counteract the depletion of the stem cells we can adjust our protocols in a way that will increase the amount of time a person can use and respond to both peptides.

    The Conclusion Part 1, MGF:

    We know that the PegMGF will stay in the body for several days and we know that while in the presence of MGF stem cells will proliferate and the use of IGF is futile. We also know that MGF without the peg is of little to no help because of how quickly exogenous MGF is broken down within the body. So what are the options?

    Well both can be of use! PegMGF can be of great use as long as the individual using the peptide in conjuction with IGF understands that the two peptides must be injected in a manner that falls outside of the current way of thinking. And MGF without the Peg addition can also be utilized as long as you don't mind being a pin cushion.

    The key with MGF is to learn to either follow your bodies natural peaks and dips of MGF levels and force proliferation on a larger scale with MGF, or to force a longer period of cell proliferation with the use of PegMGF. The key is you have to have stem cells in order to create new muscle tissue.

    The Conclusion Part 2, IGF:

    Now that we have hit the MGF part of the cycle, now we move into the part of the cycle that utilizes the stem cells. Again we want to either follow the body's natural peaks and dips of IGF levels or we are going to want to cause a prolonged forced differentiation phase. The latter of the two options is simply following standard protocol of everyday injections or 5-on 2-off. The other is all about timing. We know that MGF levels peak in the body after strenuous exercise, so why would you want to inject a substance that is useless in the presence of MGF right when MGF levels are at their highest? The answer is you don't! You will want to wait and inject the IGF 24hrs after the exercise. This will give ample time for the MGF peak to start to dip and can closely mimic the natural rise in IGF levels. This will allow for a person to use a more efficient dose since the timing of the IGF will correspond closely to the dip in MGF levels resulting in greater utilization of the exogenous IGF.

    The cycles:

    There are a few cycles I would recommend.

    The first being IGF only. It works, maybe not the most efficient plan out there but it does work none-the-less.

    The second would be the PegMGF/IGF combination. This is not the most efficient methos but should significantly increase the amount of time one can be on an MGF/IGF cycle and still see positive results. (This may have to be altered according to your training schedule)

    Sunday - Off Training - Mid-day PegMGF 200-300mcg
    Monday - Training (Afternoon)
    Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
    Wednesday - Training (Afternoon)
    Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
    Friday - Training (Afternoon)
    Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF Injection 40-80mcg

    The addition of the PegMGF will cause an increase in amount and duration of stem cell proliferation and should subside about the period of the first IGF injection. While this will not keep stem cell levels stable it should prevent the drastic decrease in stem cell numbers seen with IGF only cycles and should significantly increase cycle length.

    The third would be the use of regular MGF plus the addition of IGF and woulld closely mimic the natural system.

    Sunday - Off Training
    Monday - Training (afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
    Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
    Wednesday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
    Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
    Friday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
    Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg

    This protocol should closely mimic natural peaks and dips in MGF and IGF within the specific muscles being trained. While regular MGF is short lived in the body the addition on the regular MGF 1 hour post workout should cause an increase in cell proliferation beyond the natural system's ability and should create a larger pool of stem cells for the utilization of IGF therapy.

    #11
    welshmatt983
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    Re:MGF/IGF-1 LR3 2010/01/21 22:24:37 (permalink)
    I think I'll do the first method I stated with regular MGF immediatly post workout then IGF-1 around 45 mins later, this way should work best as the the very short half life of regular MGF will mean that they wont work against eachother as I'll give it 45 mins after injecting the MGF before I shoot the IGF. This way  should promote maximum gains and make me Mr Olympia soon! :p


    "Get big or die trying"
    #12
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