Most effective for street fighting?

Skrewdriver - you wouldnt do it if you didnt enjoy it mate, so it becomes a hobbie.

Skrewdriver


Is it worth spending all that time and effort learning something, - just in case you might need it?  Just a thought :)

 
 
"Maintain an army for a lifetime if only to fight for one day"  Or something.

Skrewdriver


I've been alive for 34 years, - and i've never needed any martial art skills to protect myself.

Is it worth spending all that time and effort learning something, - just in case you might need it?  Just a thought :)

tbh outside working the door and going out on the piss i wd never need anything and wd never have had a fight.  but i do both of the above so better do something.  but thats my choice.  im sure if one wanted to you could avoid a fight for your whole life.  by turning the other cheek, but im not willing to do that sometimes. 

indie


This is street fighting we are talking about, sparring will do jack sh1t, especially when someone is trying to headbut you, his mates are holding you down giving you a kicking.

 
Rubbish. Sparring can, and will, help. I've seen small boxers destroy big guys without taking a hit. They are fitter, more experienced, calmer, more skilled, more accurate with shots and hit harder and quicker.
 
Whether it is more sensible to run away or not is irrelevant as that is not the purpose of the thread.
 

 

I would have thought sparring was the closest type of training you can get to a real fight? I know a streetfight is a world apart from sparring someone in a gym but it's more realistic than hitting a puncbag. You get a feel for how another human moves and feel what it's like trying to hit something that is hitting you back. No piece of training equipment can accurately simulate/replicate the movement of another human being.

mystictal

indie


This is street fighting we are talking about, sparring will do jack sh1t, especially when someone is trying to headbut you, his mates are holding you down giving you a kicking.

 
Rubbish. Sparring can, and will, help. I've seen small boxers destroy big guys without taking a hit. They are fitter, more experienced, calmer, more skilled, more accurate with shots and hit harder and quicker.
 
Whether it is more sensible to run away or not is irrelevant as that is not the purpose of the thread.
 

 

Take a re-read of the original post, its the exact purpose of the thread! "what is most effective in a streetfight", This ain't a sparring thread. A few times now this thread has decended into a hypothetical small guy taking out a hypothetical big guy, which certainly isn't the purpose of this thread.
 
As for being fitter, more experienced calmer, etc as you have described, could be said about any martial artist or fighter of any discipline. We then get into the realms of boxing vs wrestling vs jiu-jitsu vs CQC.
 
In a real world situation your not hanging around to do a stand up battle, we aren't talking "street fighter ll turbo edition" you be Ryu i'll be blanka!
 
This is the reality, two guys most likely drunk, with drunk mates, one guy has a weapon of some sort, a knife most probably a broken beer bottle, Police are 2 minutes around the corner, and your on CCTV.
You'd be a fool to hang around, to try doing an armbar, a thai clinch, or high kicks.
 
 As for sparring however you look at it is not real fighting, it won't prepare you for multiple attackers or weapons, In a time of real crisis, martial arts or boxing will fail 9 times out of ten, as those techniques follow rules which quickly disapate, when you or others are out of the controlled environment of a gym, and under the influence of adrenaline or alcohol.

indie

mystictal

indie


This is street fighting we are talking about, sparring will do jack sh1t, especially when someone is trying to headbut you, his mates are holding you down giving you a kicking.

 
Rubbish. Sparring can, and will, help. I've seen small boxers destroy big guys without taking a hit. They are fitter, more experienced, calmer, more skilled, more accurate with shots and hit harder and quicker.
 
Whether it is more sensible to run away or not is irrelevant as that is not the purpose of the thread.
 

 

Take a re-read of the original post, its the exact purpose of the thread! "what is most effective in a streetfight", This ain't a sparring thread. A few times now this thread has decended into a hypothetical small guy taking out a hypothetical big guy, which certainly isn't the purpose of this thread.
 
As for being fitter, more experienced calmer, etc as you have described, could be said about any martial artist or fighter of any discipline. We then get into the realms of boxing vs wrestling vs jiu-jitsu vs CQC.
 
In a real world situation your not hanging around to do a stand up battle, we aren't talking "street fighter ll turbo edition" you be Ryu i'll be blanka!
 
This is the reality, two guys most likely drunk, with drunk mates, one guy has a weapon of some sort, a knife most probably a broken beer bottle, Police are 2 minutes around the corner, and your on CCTV.
You'd be a fool to hang around, to try doing an armbar, a thai clinch, or high kicks.
 
 As for sparring however you look at it is not real fighting, it won't prepare you for multiple attackers or weapons, In a time of real crisis, martial arts or boxing will fail 9 times out of ten, as those techniques follow rules which quickly disapate, when you or others are out of the controlled environment of a gym, and under the influence of adrenaline or alcohol.

How can a punch to the face fail? You can do a couple in under a second!

indie

mystictal

indie


This is street fighting we are talking about, sparring will do jack sh1t, especially when someone is trying to headbut you, his mates are holding you down giving you a kicking.

 
Rubbish. Sparring can, and will, help. I've seen small boxers destroy big guys without taking a hit. They are fitter, more experienced, calmer, more skilled, more accurate with shots and hit harder and quicker.
 
Whether it is more sensible to run away or not is irrelevant as that is not the purpose of the thread.
 

 

Take a re-read of the original post, its the exact purpose of the thread! "what is most effective in a streetfight", This ain't a sparring thread. A few times now this thread has decended into a hypothetical small guy taking out a hypothetical big guy, which certainly isn't the purpose of this thread.
 
As for being fitter, more experienced calmer, etc as you have described, could be said about any martial artist or fighter of any discipline. We then get into the realms of boxing vs wrestling vs jiu-jitsu vs CQC.
 
In a real world situation your not hanging around to do a stand up battle, we aren't talking "street fighter ll turbo edition" you be Ryu i'll be blanka!
 
This is the reality, two guys most likely drunk, with drunk mates, one guy has a weapon of some sort, a knife most probably a broken beer bottle, Police are 2 minutes around the corner, and your on CCTV.
You'd be a fool to hang around, to try doing an armbar, a thai clinch, or high kicks.
 
 As for sparring however you look at it is not real fighting, it won't prepare you for multiple attackers or weapons, In a time of real crisis, martial arts or boxing will fail 9 times out of ten, as those techniques follow rules which quickly disapate, when you or others are out of the controlled environment of a gym, and under the influence of adrenaline or alcohol.

i know what ya getting at and the choas and total randomness seen in street fights cannot be trained for really.

but if you know what your doing tecnhically and your prepaired to use it with force it will work!!

how can you say 9/10 boxing or martial arts wont work.  thats bullsh1t!!  i can assure you on many occasions while working ive had to use my training.  the only times where training has not figure in is when there have been multiple atackers with weapons then yea realisticly your fuct.  just have to stay aware of your surroundings and hope you dont get attacked from side or behind.  so positioning yourself in doorway or against a wall is ideal.   but for all other scenarios martial arts will and does work and is used regularly.  theres not always multiple attackers with weapons some people just want a dust up.

who says you have to follow the rules anyway, if im fighting im not gonna give them a bloody standing 8 or let them tap out its for real ill choke them out or keep punching till they've had enough 

We often train multiple attacker drills and sparring in Krav Maga.  I'm not claiming that it's going to ensure that you come out of a real life situation unscathed but I can't see it but helping.

Afterall does the army train by fighting a battle?  No, they simulate it as much as possible in a controlled environment.

My hope is that by training repeatedly that the movements and drills will become ingrained so that when faced with a knife at my throat, I can act appropriately and not necessarily think intensively about what I need to do.

To back to the OP, my opinion is that a good combo of MAs would be

Krav Maga - teach you awareness and how to 'get out of' attacks such as head locks, bear hugs etc

and a striking art such as Muay Thai so you can put some purpose behind your strikes and through sparring get used to the adrenalin dump that accompanies fighting and the feeling of getting hit full on.

odog


i know what ya getting at and the choas and total randomness seen in street fights cannot be trained for really.

but if you know what your doing tecnhically and your prepaired to use it with force it will work!!

how can you say 9/10 boxing or martial arts wont work.  thats bullsh1t!!  i can assure you on many occasions while working ive had to use my training.  the only times where training has not figure in is when there have been multiple atackers with weapons then yea realisticly your fuct.  just have to stay aware of your surroundings and hope you dont get attacked from side or behind.  so positioning yourself in doorway or against a wall is ideal.   but for all other scenarios martial arts will and does work and is used regularly.  theres not always multiple attackers with weapons some people just want a dust up.

who says you have to follow the rules anyway, if im fighting im not gonna give them a bloody standing 8 or let them tap out its for real ill choke them out or keep punching till they've had enough 

Your in a different situation, your on a door, not drunk! throwing out...most probably rowdy drunk youngsters, plus you have backup from other doormen.
 
Rules i'm not talking queensbury rules someone who trains Martial arts trains within a set of guidelines ie... without weapons, no knees or kicks, no eye gauging, mano e mano. How would you react to something you haven't trained for! the flowery elements of some martial arts won't cut it on the street, Thats what CQC like krav try to address.

indie

odog


i know what ya getting at and the choas and total randomness seen in street fights cannot be trained for really.

but if you know what your doing tecnhically and your prepaired to use it with force it will work!!

how can you say 9/10 boxing or martial arts wont work.  thats bullsh1t!!  i can assure you on many occasions while working ive had to use my training.  the only times where training has not figure in is when there have been multiple atackers with weapons then yea realisticly your fuct.  just have to stay aware of your surroundings and hope you dont get attacked from side or behind.  so positioning yourself in doorway or against a wall is ideal.   but for all other scenarios martial arts will and does work and is used regularly.  theres not always multiple attackers with weapons some people just want a dust up.

who says you have to follow the rules anyway, if im fighting im not gonna give them a bloody standing 8 or let them tap out its for real ill choke them out or keep punching till they've had enough 

Your in a different situation, your on a door, not drunk! throwing out...most probably rowdy drunk youngsters, plus you have backup from other doormen.
 
Rules i'm not talking queensbury rules someone who trains Martial arts trains within a set of guidelines ie... without weapons, no knees or kicks, no eye gauging, mano e mano. How would you react to something you haven't trained for! the flowery elements of some martial arts won't cut it on the street, Thats what CQC like krav try to address.

i think doing the door is a similar situation, and mabye even more mentally taxing as you have to maintain yourself and cant explode as you would during a fight.  like you have to be more aware etc while remaining calm.

i think monitor made a good point about the army, saying that they dnt have wars to train for it, instead they try to simulate it as much as possible.  IMO, the only think different in a street fight between an experianced boxer/martial artist etc and experianced street fighter is confidence.  Confidence not to bak down, confident of your abilities and your surroundings.  so all that **** about 9/10 martial arts dnt work is ballix, mabye you mean mean 9/10 martial artists dnt work, cuz they lack the confidence, composure etc. 

also, id like to think that most of the ppl taking there training seriously enuf would refrain from being drunk that often, and therefore avoid fighting drunk.  Therefore all that about it wont work wen ur drunk is out the window aswell...

its a tough debate, and could go either way like

The only time you generally get streetfights are when people are drunk! so to avoid fighting when drunk is a moot point!

9 out of ten times martial arts go out the window, when a situation arises that you haven't trained for, I've seen it many times where experienced martial artists, do a couple of moves they know instinctively, then revert to fighting like anyone else.

Jeez you can see it in cage fighting ufc etc! an experienced martial artist gets taken down and forgets his training, not responding to the moves that a novice could get out of in the dojo (like a rabbit in the headlights).
 
Knowing martial arts may improve your chances a little, but those odds are seriously dimished when you add unforeseen variables into the equation, which you will certainly get in these situations.

Well there you go everyone, MA training is completely useless in a street environment. So if a you piss off a good boxer MMA fighter it will be 50:50 on the street.
 
 

indie



As for being fitter, more experienced calmer, etc as you have described, could be said about any martial artist or fighter of any discipline. We then get into the realms of boxing vs wrestling vs jiu-jitsu vs CQC.
 
Exactly! Some will transfer better that others to street fighting, i.e boxing and wrestling.
 
 
In a real world situation your not hanging around to do a stand up battle, we aren't talking "street fighter ll turbo edition" you be Ryu i'll be blanka!
 okay... ?
This is the reality, two guys most likely drunk, with drunk mates, one guy has a weapon of some sort, a knife most probably a broken beer bottle, Police are 2 minutes around the corner, and your on CCTV.
You'd be a fool to hang around, to try doing an armbar, a thai clinch, or high kicks.
 
Who mentioned arm bars or high kicks? People are still commonly attacked one-on-one or when cornered, when running isn't an option.
  
 As for sparring however you look at it is not real fighting, it won't prepare you for multiple attackers or weapons, In a time of real crisis, martial arts or boxing will fail 9 times out of ten, as those techniques follow rules which quickly disapate, when you or others are out of the controlled environment of a gym, and under the influence of adrenaline or alcohol.
LOL is that stat based on scientific research?

 
 
Can I ask what your MA background is to be speaking so strongly on the subject?

mystictal


Well there you go everyone, MA training is completely useless in a street environment. So if a you piss off a good boxer MMA fighter it will be 50:50 on the street. 
  
Whats a boxer going to do when they are in a standing rear choke? whats a jiu jitsu practitioner going to do when a drink is thrown into his face and punched in the head? Kickboxer grabbed by the hair, with a girl scratching his eyes? They have as good a chance as anyone else!
 

indie



As for being fitter, more experienced calmer, etc as you have described, could be said about any martial artist or fighter of any discipline. We then get into the realms of boxing vs wrestling vs jiu-jitsu vs CQC.
 
Exactly! Some will transfer better that others to street fighting, i.e boxing and wrestling.
 
 
none will "transfer" if your attacker has a knife.

   
 
In a real world situation your not hanging around to do a stand up battle, we aren't talking "street fighter ll turbo edition" you be Ryu i'll be blanka!
 okay... ?
This is the reality, two guys most likely drunk, with drunk mates, one guy has a weapon of some sort, a knife most probably a broken beer bottle, Police are 2 minutes around the corner, and your on CCTV.
You'd be a fool to hang around, to try doing an armbar, a thai clinch, or high kicks.
 
Who mentioned arm bars or high kicks? People are still commonly attacked one-on-one or when cornered, when running isn't an option.
 
 
Arm bars, high kicks are moves in jiu jitsu and kickboxing respectively, both of which have been mentioned in this discussion of which martial art is best.

   
 As for sparring however you look at it is not real fighting, it won't prepare you for multiple attackers or weapons, In a time of real crisis, martial arts or boxing will fail 9 times out of ten, as those techniques follow rules which quickly disapate, when you or others are out of the controlled environment of a gym, and under the influence of adrenaline or alcohol.
LOL is that stat based on scientific research?
 
No mate, its based on police statistics. The amount of martial arts wannabe hardmen, who get there a**ses handed to them on a plate come friday night is high, its a false sense of security.

 
 
Can I ask what your MA background is to be speaking so strongly on the subject?

My background CQC krav, judo, boxing, CQC weaponry skills. 
 
Would I trust my skills in a street fight? One guy...probably, one guy and his mate...maybe, one guy two mates and a glass bottle/knife. It gets more and more unlikely. Trust me, I'm being realistic, going to your local martial arts lesson/boxing club twice a week does not make anyone invincable.
 
For the average street fight on a friday night, the most effective thing to do, have lots of mates who will back you up, to intimidate anyone into not fighting in the first place.
For a one on one mugging, depending on the situation, Something like krav maga, and get away as fast as possible.
 
You seem to be an expert in disecting my advice, whats your background?
 
 

CQC as a concept sounds a bit gimmicky to me?

No-one is saying training makes you invincible, but the point is that it clearly puts you in a better position that you would have otherwise been.

Does it "clearly" put you in a better position! other than conjecture, what are you basing that on?
 
Gimmicky , why do you say that?

I've only done a bit of MA training but I have 'performed' a lot better in self-defence situations than I did before. Just knowing how to throw a punch better has seen me in good stead.

CQC just sounds a bit gimmicky, just the unneccesary use of acronyms for a start, lol. Krav is Krav right, don't see anywhere promoting CQC Krav, just seems like an uneccessary distinction.

to be fair i think indie has some good points. 

the street is totally diff and ive seen a few skilled guys get battered just cos of the surroundings.

but i still think training helps.  and yuor right about working on the door its a totally diff thing.  ive been in street fights off the door too. and ive had a few kickings as well so i know the reality of street fights

One on one street fighting your best training is improve your standup and your KO power to the point where you can KO someone with one punch or a short flurry/combination.  IMO wrestling or a good take down is key - especially in Europe where very few people can wrestle and/or have a good sprawl (take down defense).  Rugby players are usually good at taking someone down but most people struggle to fight off of their back.
When facing multiple attackers or weapons your best defense is get the frig out of there as fast as you can.....I would not attempt to fight anyone who is carrying a weapon unless you absolutely know what you are doing which rules out about 99.9% of people

If your fighting drunk you'll forgot most of the things that you've learned in class...In my limited experiance anyway

But learning to punch correctly is surely an invaluable skill and so it should be said that some striking training is better then none