'Natural' Female muscle building

Hi everyone :)
 
I have recently become very disheartened with all my training as I think I have had a bit of a reality check.
As I am sure all of you UK users have seen the photos of Jodie Marsh. She says she takes protein supplements but otherwise is naturally building muscle.
 
I think that our bodies where very similar before we both began weight training and we are about the same hight and weight and so on.
 
I first began lifting weights mainly because I enjoy it and secondly to gain a 'fitness model' style physique, I wanted the muscle and the 6 pack but still wanted a little bit of fat covering it all as I do not want to compete in body building competitions. (plus I don't think i have the discipline to drop that much fat)
 
Anyway, I then got a bit more confident and wanted to grow a bit more muscle. and had an image in my head, slightly larger muscles than Jodie Marsh but also with a bit more fat than in her competition photos.
 
Now My logic tells me: She has a personal trainer, a dietitian, a huge amount of money and has pretty much made body building her full time job.
I on the other hand, work full time at an office desk. have to motivate myself, learn everything I can by myself and eat what I think to be best for me....
 
Now comparing the two, how will I ever be able to get more muscle than Ms Marsh?
I think my goal is unrealistic and this has left me very disheartened with my efforts.
 
I guess what I would like to know is, without all this extra help she has could I at least get to her size? How difficult is it for females to be able to pack on much muscle without taking steroids?
At a rough guess how much do you think she bicep curls for example to get to that size? Or bench presses?
 
Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Even if it is to tell me to be more realistic with my expectations.
 
Thanks,
x
 
 

i dont think jodies physique is unattainable for anyone. she has very low bodyfat but she is not particularly muscular and for anyone to suggest she uses steroids to reach that size is laughable.
 
i would imagine she is incredibly driven and sticks to her diet rigidly, and does plenty of cardio daily.
 
yes it helps when there is someone there to help motivate you- but look at all the girls Jodie competed alongside. many of them in office jobs, with no personal trainers- and some placing higher than jodie.
 
you can get there!!
 
 

Liz - awesome answer
 
In a word yes, you can get there!
 
Jodie didn't have a dietitian, just a personal trainer who competes, and thus knows a lot about contest dieting. It should be noted, it took her about 3-4 years to gain that level of muscle, and diet back down too to show it off.
 
It can totally be done naturally, as many of us here (myself included) can attest to!
 
GOOD LUCK! 

Depending on your genetics it could be easy or difficult. Jodie Marsh with all due respect is very skinny and hasn't got muscle quality yet as it takes years to build that foundation. I have been competing for a long time in both BB and fitness and always naturally. 
Given that I have a strong muscle base from years of training, these days I do split routine on 3 days and HIIT on 2. I suggest you start with compound exercises like squat, chest press, shoulder press, dead lift to build your foundation. Go as heavy as you can and do 3 set of 8 reps or you can do a pyramid 8-6-4 but it has to be heavy. You may want to have a spot to be able to go to failure. Then you need to combine a good nutrition, high in protein and good fat, never skip meals, with the right ratio of carbs and also take protein supplements. It's not easy if I am honest but you get amazing results in relatively short time if you manage to get into a routine, get organised and disciplined. 
Good luck

wow thank you for such great responses. I had no idea that she took 3-4 years to get to how she is. All the 'gossip magazines' make out like she did it in a few months.
 
That alone has brought my confidence back as I have only been training about one year. I have seen results I am proud of in that year; from how I was to how I am now. Think by the sounds of things I am being too impatient as I thought in one year I should be bigger than I am.
Plus I see the guys in the gym and how quickly they grow and how much they lift and it just makes me feel small.
I think that is something I just need to get over and ignore them.

she didn't take 3-4 years, I meant that it takes about 3-4 years to build the right density. Jodie only trained for a few months but as she was already quite slim and small she got ripped quickly, but in terms of muscle quality anyone with a bit of experience can tell she hasn't got it yet. But good effort on her to do it!! Good luck to you too and if you need tips, shout!

OK....Firstly, I believe you need to work with the body YOU have. A very well respected female bodybuilder once said 'it is stupid to look at someone else and say 'I want to be like that' because realistically it is impossible. So firstly really LOOK in the mirror and see what YOU have then start SEEING where the changes need to be made.
Its like working with a piece of sculpture you mould the clay, you take a bit of here and there and add some in other areas. These things can be realised through CONSISTENCY in three areas, diet training and rest.
1st step look at your diet - what is it you are REALLY eating? Is it consistent with trying to bring about the changes you want in your body - if not RESEARCH what eating habits you need to change.
2nd step is your training working for you? If not look at how you need to approach it to achieve the results you want. But above all LIFT HEAVY weights and work hard in the gym, do CARDIO AFTER your work out and if at all possible before breakfast in the morning.
3rd Make sure you get adequate rest, during rest periods and solid sleep is when you grow that all important muscle.
 
As for motivation that has to come from YOU we can help with advice, lead the horse to water so to speak but we can't make you drink.
Remember you have to do this with YOUR body no one else's
 
Lou X

Its blimmin blimmin blimmin blimmin hard - thats the holy truth!
As others, wiser than me have said above its a case of consistent proper eating, heavy training and rest.    Ive got a bit discouraged too at just how hard it is for me to build muscle - but have to keep reminding myself Ive only been training for 7 months and my diet is up and down with self induced alcohol sabotage, so what do I expect?!
Do you keep a training and food diary?   Ive found thats good to do - if Im honest with what Ive put in my gob then its easy to see why gains are slow.  Also I can keep checking that Im always pushing forward in weightage/form, etc.
I think Jodie was training on and off for 3 years or so and then really went for it training solid all day in the run up to the show.  Of course its easier if you can dedicate your life and pay for unlimited one to one training, but there are plenty of fantastic muscular competitors, juggling full time work and family stuff.   Every bit of advice Ive had is about organisation and commitment - I just need to follow it .....:o
KEEP GOING KEEP GOING KEEP GOING XX

fitmodel64


she didn't take 3-4 years, I meant that it takes about 3-4 years to build the right density. Jodie only trained for a few months but as she was already quite slim and small she got ripped quickly, but in terms of muscle quality anyone with a bit of experience can tell she hasn't got it yet. But good effort on her to do it!! Good luck to you too and if you need tips, shout!

 
It did take her 3-4 years to build that muscle. A friend of mine helped her along the way, along with Tim, her trainer, and I remember when they started!!!
 
She just dieted for 12 weeks, that's all.

Lou I think you are right about the consistency issue. It is something I am not.
I was at the gym a year and was building muscle but just wasn't loosing the fat I wanted to shift so joined British Military Fitness about 3 months ago. (The classes are 1 hour long in Parks across the UK and you run round lots and do a huge variety of exercises. the main ones are press-ups, situps, squats and burpees with lots and lots of running) In a typical class you burn about 650 calories and do about 50-100 each of the exercises mentioned above. I do this 3-4 times a week.
 
From doing this and also going Paleo (I eat a predominantly caveman diet: so eggs, meat, fish, nuts, fruit and veg) Although i am not strick and do still have my porridge in the morning.
 
Doing this I have lost the fat I wanted to and am happy with that. but now I want to get back to the gym to grow more muscle.
I eat:
8am- Porridge made with Soya milk, a small spoon of honey, a piece of fruit chopped up and mixed in and a scoop of L-Glutamine.
 
11am- Protein shake and maybe some nuts depending how hungry I am
 
2pm- lunch varies a lot. Could be a fish salad but most of the time it is meat and veg. so like pork chops or a large chicken breast with sweet potato and broccoli.
 
5pm- fruit and nuts. so say a banana and small handful of nuts.
 
6pm. work out. was BMF but now want to go back to gym
 
7.30ish- post work out protein shake.
 
get home shower and then I really struggle to eat at about 8.30 pm so i may have a veg soup or a very small dinner (smaller than lunch which is normally twice the size of everyone else's in the staff room) but again dinner could be small piece of salmon with veg or something like that.
 
Then about 11pm I go to bed and am out like a log as soon as my head hits the pillow
 
On non training days I would not have the post training shake and instead would have a much larger dinner. still meat and veg, just bigger portion. I find it hard to eat after working out and on non training days I am actually more hungry.
 
Is this sort of diet ok? I know that advice normally says to have a carb meal after workouts like pasta or rice. As I do not eat that being Paleo will this hinder my gains? Should I go back to eating 'normally'
I went Paleo because I found grains in pasta and bread and things like that make me bloat and feel full- not in a nice way. since going Paleo my skin has cleared and i feel much 'cleaner', healthier and just generally very good. It is hard to explain but I do feel much better for it. For example I suffered from acne for many years. This last 3 months i have given up grains my skin is almost entirely clear.
 
wow long post. sorry.
 
 
 
 

Carbs from fruit & veg are fine, you may of course just find you need a lot more veg (volume wise) than if you were eating pasta or rice. TBH I don't really do pasta or rice and definitely don't do oats, I get most of my carbs from veggies and sweet potatoes/regular potato and I'm OK :)

Exactly as NicChip says above, except I would definitely impress upon you that those PWO carbs are probably your most important of the day (certainly if you want to gain muscle).
BUT there's nothing to say that you can't have them from potato if that's what works for you 
 
I don't think Paleo will hinder your gains in the slightest, so don't worry about that 
 
All in all, diet looks good!

Sorry the above post was totally bolloxed by the aspx system. As was this one

Yes indeed, sorry, I should have said that although I get most of my carbs from veg, I always have "real" carbs after training - sweet potato, bit of fruit, ricecakes if in a pinch.... even rice if I have been bothered to batch-cook some(!)

sm270


Lou I think you are right about the consistency issue. It is something I am not.
I was at the gym a year and was building muscle but just wasn't loosing the fat I wanted to shift so joined British Military Fitness about 3 months ago. (The classes are 1 hour long in Parks across the UK and you run round lots and do a huge variety of exercises. the main ones are press-ups, situps, squats and burpees with lots and lots of running) In a typical class you burn about 650 calories and do about 50-100 each of the exercises mentioned above. I do this 3-4 times a week.

From doing this and also going Paleo (I eat a predominantly caveman diet: so eggs, meat, fish, nuts, fruit and veg) Although i am not strick and do still have my porridge in the morning.

Doing this I have lost the fat I wanted to and am happy with that. but now I want to get back to the gym to grow more muscle.
I eat:
8am- Porridge made with Soya milk, a small spoon of honey, a piece of fruit chopped up and mixed in and a scoop of L-Glutamine.

11am- Protein shake and maybe some nuts depending how hungry I am

2pm- lunch varies a lot. Could be a fish salad but most of the time it is meat and veg. so like pork chops or a large chicken breast with sweet potato and broccoli.

5pm- fruit and nuts. so say a banana and small handful of nuts.

6pm. work out. was BMF but now want to go back to gym

7.30ish- post work out protein shake.

get home shower and then I really struggle to eat at about 8.30 pm so i may have a veg soup or a very small dinner (smaller than lunch which is normally twice the size of everyone else's in the staff room) but again dinner could be small piece of salmon with veg or something like that.

Then about 11pm I go to bed and am out like a log as soon as my head hits the pillow

On non training days I would not have the post training shake and instead would have a much larger dinner. still meat and veg, just bigger portion. I find it hard to eat after working out and on non training days I am actually more hungry.

Is this sort of diet ok? I know that advice normally says to have a carb meal after workouts like pasta or rice. As I do not eat that being Paleo will this hinder my gains? Should I go back to eating 'normally'
I went Paleo because I found grains in pasta and bread and things like that make me bloat and feel full- not in a nice way. since going Paleo my skin has cleared and i feel much 'cleaner', healthier and just generally very good. It is hard to explain but I do feel much better for it. For example I suffered from acne for many years. This last 3 months i have given up grains my skin is almost entirely clear.

wow long post. sorry.

Meal 1 Porridge HOW MUCH PORRIDGE  AND WHERE'S THE PROTEIN?- 40-50gr oats is a goodly amount drop the soya milk and honey, use water and to sweeten it is perfectly ok to use Splenda OR powdered Stevia, for fruit use 20-25gr raisins OR a small banana for protein use a good slow release whey protein.
 
Meal 2 Protein shake and nuts is NOT a meal - eat about 120gr chicken/turkey/tuna (UNCOOKED WEIGHT) with vegetables and two teaspoons of a good oil
 
Meal 3 Pork chops are one of lowest protein content meats and one of the highest in fats instead eat same as meal two
Meal 4 Fruit and nuts is not a meal eats same as meal 2&3
 
Meal 5 Post work out shake should be a whey protein isolate (35gr) and CARBS (45gr)
OR IF NOT TRAINING same as meal 2,3 &4 also add some carbs to each of these meals use potato (120gr), sweet potato (80gr) rice (30gr) or rice cakes (4-5 with each meal)
 
Meal 6 Same as meals 2,3 & 4
 
Hope that makes sense....

Awesome diet advice there^^ :-)cx
My own transformation was particularly impressive due to the previous 10years weight training giving density that was hiding under the fat suit.
Start a journal on here & everyone will hep you on your journey.
:-)xx

wow. Backafter16yrs. thank you so much!! I must say just reading all that alone makes me feel full. I am not sure how I can physically eat that much...
A few questions though if you don't mind:
 
what sort of size should these portions be? Like the size of a small Tupperware like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/M...K8RZLO/ref=pd_sim_kh_3
 
If I am eating that much food will I not gain back the fat I have tried so hard to loose? Or do I need to do a lot of cardio to stop that happening? I am currently about 16% fat and happy with it or could go a little less.
 
Just to clarify I should eat a meal of meat/fish and say 2 veg 4 times a day? The one post workout should include a potato or some rice?
 
I should have two protein shakes a day, one with breakfast one PWO. can they be the same or should they be different? I currently use Reflex Instant Whey.
 
And last question, how come I should have water instead of Soya milk in my porridge? oh and my serving size is currently half a standard size mug of oats and 1 mug of soya milk.
 
thank you :)
 
 
 
 
 
 

sm270


wow. Backafter16yrs. thank you so much!! I must say just reading all that alone makes me feel full. I am not sure how I can physically eat that much...
A few questions though if you don't mind:

what sort of size should these portions be? Like the size of a small Tupperware like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/M...K8RZLO/ref=pd_sim_kh_3

If I am eating that much food will I not gain back the fat I have tried so hard to loose? Or do I need to do a lot of cardio to stop that happening? I am currently about 16% fat and happy with it or could go a little less.

Just to clarify I should eat a meal of meat/fish and say 2 veg 4 times a day? The one post workout should include a potato or some rice?

I should have two protein shakes a day, one with breakfast one PWO. can they be the same or should they be different? I currently use Reflex Instant Whey.

And last question, how come I should have water instead of Soya milk in my porridge? oh and my serving size is currently half a standard size mug of oats and 1 mug of soya milk.

thank you :)

In terms of calories you won't be eating a great deal more nor are the portions that big - 120gr chicken as UNCOOKED weight is about a standard size portion for a normal person in a meal ....its just  that you are eating more often.
Re Soya milk: it contains sucrose which is additional sugars you don't require when fighting fat, also soya is known for elevating oestrogens something to be avoided when trying to build muscle.
There is one MAJOR rule to follow WEIGH all your food! That keeps the guess work out of what you are eating and generally keeps eating habits in check. Stating that one standard mug size (what is that excatly a standard mug?) Best to weigh out the oats, 50gr as a maximum at the moment. This will give you plenty carbs to start your day along with your banana/raisins/sultanas.
 
Yes you should eat 4 meals of chicken/fish/turkey with veg and don't forget the TWO TEASPOONS of a good oil such as Extra Virgin Olive oil/ Sesame oil/ Good Oil (which is hemp oil)
 
Your post work out shake has the carbs you need for recovery you do not need to have carbs in your meal after your pwo shake.
Don't forget to have a cheat meal on a day of your choice when you can eat whatever you like...
 
Bon Appetit
 
Lou X

im goin to try and copy this diet :)