Overhead squats

Hi guys, Ive been doing barbell complexes lately, and in Chad Waterbury's routine he recommends overhead squats but I have been skipping these as every time I try them I fall over, even with just the bar! Can anyone help please?

have you tried it with different shoes or no footware?
 
I ask as I find some of my trainers better than squating than other trianers. If I had a pair of the fancy nike air or what ever the latest bouncey heals are now. I find the sole push me forward more than a old pair of trianers with a flatter heel.
 

I usually train in converse ie flat trainers. I will try without any footwear to see if that makes a difference!

It's a challenging lift demanding a lot of mobility in the hip, shoulder and ankle and good control at the shoulder.
 
Converse are flat soled meaning it'll demand even more, they're easier in oly lifting soes - these have a heel.
 
Swap them out for a bit but practice them with an empty bar in-between your warm up and actual weight training.

Thanks for the input Drew, appreciated. I don't have oly shoes but I have some running trainers which have a heel so I will try in them. I will also attempt overheads everyday at the start of each session to try and get better!

OP, what way do you fall over, forward?
 
The OHS is good for enforcing proper squatting mechanics, because you have to move back and down, with your hip externally rotating to create the hole for you to sit into, with a back angle close to vertical. If your squat mechanics are insufficient, and you simply move directly down mostly through knee flexion, you will lose the bar forward most every time. Your torso will be unable to stay upright and you will place a higher demand on the other joints involved heavily in the movement, exposing your weakest link.
 
From a flexibility standpoint, as Drew said you will need to be sufficiently mobile in the ankle, hip, thoracic spine and shoulder. Tightness here will limit your ability to move properly in this movement.
 
Do you have a video shot from the frontal plane so we can look at your hip and knee movement?
 
Starrett does a lot of good work on mobility on his MobilityWOD. These are a couple that might help;
 

 

Yeah, just a few sets of 5-10, get familiar with the movement and as much as possible keep the back nice and long and work to keep torso more upright.

It's an incredibly difficult movement to master IMO.
 
Granted I am no master of any of the Oly lifts, but suffice it say that I have a 100kg clean and a 70kg power snatch (by no means impressive numbers, so shouldn't be construed as if I am trying to claim they are, they are merely for comparative purposes), yet I genuinely struggle to do full ROM overhead squats with an empty bar. In fact I would probably struggle to do them with a broom handle.
 
And I don't have particularly bad flexibility either, I mean I can do full ROM cleans without a bother.
 
One of the best tips I heard about overhead squats, probably given to me by either one or other of the very knowledgeable posters above me, is that you should focus on keeping the weight in line with your heels. This will necessitate holding the weight further back than it would be normally if you just put the bar overhead.
 
Other than that though I'd say I wouldn't really see all that much benefit of doing the lift, given how much time and effort will go into learning it, unless you are actually using to assist your snatch. If you're just doing it for barbell complex purposes then I would just not bother, because the whole point of complexes is really just to burn calories, so there will be nothing special about the inclusion of overhead squats over any other movement that requires similar exertion.

Ultimately you have to decide why your doing them in the first place. If it is an unneccessary exercise, as suggested above, maybe dont use it.
 
It is one I have been 'fighting' for several weeks now and since working on some ROM issue in my thoracics and shoulders due to muscle spasm. Having progressed from firstly releasing muscles, then trying OHS with no weight with arms over head (similar to video), to using a body bar (very light), to now being able to perform well with empty olympic bar. Still slightly shakey but feel SOOOOOO much better since goinbg through this process.
No point in forcing something if the capacity isnt there yet mate.

OP, how wide are you gripping the bar? The longer your arms are, the closer to the collars your grip will be, but torso length will also affect this. Those with short torsos will use a wider grip. Obviously work within the limits of your own flexibility, and address them until you can get to proper width.
 
This is from an Olympic perspective, but to find a suitable OHS grip;
 
1. Stand bolt upright with the bar.
2. Bend slightly at the hip and knee, so you are in the 'power position'. Like this, but a bit more upright;
 

 

 
3. When you are in this position, your OHS grip will be wherever your hands are when the bar sits right in your hip crease like above.

impossible to OHS if you dont have the ROM/flexibility in the shoulders!
 
for most people i have seen try, and fail, including myself, its failed long before hip, knee, and foot flexibility starts to play a part!
 
as per CK, if your just doing complexes for cardio etc, then i wouldnt worry about not being able to OHS too much, just drop it onto the shoulders after doing OHP and do normal squats!
 
if you really want to be able to OHS, then it could be a pretty long road to getting there!

... it's not a 'necessary'  movement but the qualities you develop developing it actually carry over in a huge range of advantages. Shoulder stability and control and range of motion are huge benefits and ones that many weight trainees really lack - which holds them back and, ultimately, affects health.
 
Broom handles and also position over the heels being mentioned above as well as working without a bar... both valid and have a purpose but as long as you're healthy I actually recommend you start with a bar to get the feel for where the weight should be. The heavier the bar the more you need to keep it over the heels, and working with a bar actually feeds back to how you need to 1) work the shoulder girdle - stabilising by pushing up and pulling the bar apart and 2) letting you know the limitations with regards to thoracic, hip and esp. shoulder range of motion. 
 
Whilst using a pipe or broom handle as well as nothing at all are valid and have a purpose, you get much faster development of the actual 'lift' with a 10-20kg bar.
 
... end of the day, a useful lift, not a huge 'muscle builder' but a very useful one, just keep working away at it.

Re the bar vs. broom handle, you will get a bit more feedback from the weight of the bar and will give you something to work against, rather than just hot air.
 
The other thing with the OHS movement is that it is almost a flexibility exercise in itself, this is more pronounced when performed with a little bit of weight like the bar.

I am with Thumper on this, a little weight on the bar is how I eventually cracked them - but they are difficult.
 
Shoulder flexibility was my limiting factor but perseverence paid off.
 
At first I used the power rack with high pins picking off the bar on the downward movement  - so I was doing partials. This allowed me to re-set myself beneath the bar and drive back out. By lowering the pins each time I eventually got the squat all the way down.
 
Interestingly, when you see an Oly lifter in competition use this squat press technique through the jerk movement, their arms seem to be hyprextended backwards at the shoulder, and that is exactly what's happened to mine over time.
 
As for reasons why to do them, for me it's simple - they are fun.

On the topic of overhead squatting, squat jerking, I actually really like being rock bottom in an overhead squat. Weird, I know.
 
Check out this guy Kum Chol Pang, he likes being there too.
 

 
And this;
 

Drew Price


... it's not a 'necessary'  movement but the qualities you develop developing it actually carry over in a huge range of advantages. Shoulder stability and control and range of motion are huge benefits and ones that many weight trainees really lack - which holds them back and, ultimately, affects health.

^^ totally agree Drew so the OP should consider its necessity to him. While this lift can help with the issues you have raised, more importantly is the question - why cant he do them in the first place? ie why is his shoulder lackin ROM? why is it unstable etc etc. I know you know this Drew an just raising the point for the OP

Yeah, what I am getting at though is that you get feedback from movements like the (modestly loaded) OHS, then you ask the questions, then you (hopefully) put in the necessary restorative work.

Drew Price


Yeah, what I am getting at though is that you get feedback from movements like the (modestly loaded) OHS, then you ask the questions, then you (hopefully) put in the necessary restorative work.

yeah I am with you, its cos my mentality is test first then choose the exercise thats relevent but for those who dont/cant get tested then yes I agree Drew

Had a go a while back (Chad Waterbury's routine as well).  I'm sure it was good for releasing tension in the shoulders.  Good idea to post some videos :)
 
http://www.muscletalk.co....m=4476977&mpage=1#
 
I might get some more videos up.  See what my form looks like these days....

I had much more success working out overhead squats using a heavy band in place of a boomstick.  Something in creating the tension in the band helped in getting the arms/shoulders into a good position for the squat.  An overhead squat with a band is part of my warm up most days now.