something stronger than ECA but not off the shelf?
Phen phen or phen fen or whatever its called, kills appetite, believe thats its main use and why the navy seals etc take it. but could also can kill you if not careful :) not as strong as DNP but stronger than Ephedrine. Not tried personally and never would, but a friend has - works.
personally if you want a legal alternative maybe not as strong as ECA, usp labs oxeylite pro is good, its a strong thermogenic and does work, but to drop fat you have to put the hours in. everything else off the shelf i've tried didnt do jack. apart from double espressos! those and oxeylite would stop me eating all day no probs, then again i like food so...
id agree with most of the above - if its fat your trying to drop force yoruself to just get to a gym for a couple weeks, try a pre wo drink that gives you a bit of a kick (i wouldnt mess with the strong stuff man i didnt and dropped 30kg+) once you start going your motivation/will will increase and it becomes habit, then you will start to tweak your diet more and more, its perpetual. have your cheat once a week, you might even cheat every day a bit, but just aim to get the majority of it right and build upon the rest until you pick up pace and rythmn, then trust me you wont want cheat meals anymore :)
if you just take a strong stim/burner like ECA/Phen/Clen/dnp and dont get your fitness levels/diet right, as soon as you stop taking it you'll put the weight back on anyway, you cant stay on it forever nor supress your appetite forever = law of diminihsing returns, you'll just eat muscle and fat and everything on your body for that fact :)
good luck
<message edited by patternsco on 21 January 2012 13:51>