Shoulder training

Just started to train shoulders with chest after training them with the back. Would this be better?
I seem to have stubborn shoulder muscles and would appreciate some help.

In all honesty i only train shoulders with triceps.
 
Chest and biceps
Back
Shoulders/Triceps
Legs
 
If you can only do 3 days then i would put Triceps with Back and train Shoulders and legs.
 
I think if they are that stubborn then you need to give them there own time and perhaps up what you do for them.
 
Can you post your shoulder routine up?
 
You'll need to remember that shoulders get hit with chest so if you train them after chest then they will not be at there best to lift the max.
 
 

Seated OHP
Side lateral raise
Bent over rear flyes.
 
I thought because they are being trained with the chest they would be hit hard in one session?
 

I would agree with the direction that you are going Clarkey. Shoulders do, as Dronus rightly says, get hit very hard when training chest. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, training shoulders on a separate day to chest would result in you training your shoulders de facto twice per week.
 
Now, nothing wrong with that in itself (as long as the rest of the routine is equally balanced), BUT you said in your first post that your shoulders are stubborn, so we are to assume that you have had difficulty in making them grow. Therefore it's safe to say that training your shoulders on two separate days, as above, has NOT been ideal for your shoulder development, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here asking about it.
 
As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So for you, I would certainly recommend grouping shoulders with chest. I would in fact recommend this for all novice/intermediate unassisted trainers. You can replicate pro-BBers split routines until the cows come home but there is little point unless you are also replicating their drug use.
 
However in your shoulder routine that you just posted above, I would ditch rear delt flyes, because for all intents and purposes your rear delts are in fact in your back because they get hit by virtually all pulling movements. A solid routine would be something like:
 
Bench Press
OHP
Incline DB Press
Dips
Lateral Raises
 
Certainly no need for more volume than that.

Dronus

You'll need to remember that shoulders get hit with chest so if you train them after chest then they will not be at there best to lift the max.

 
 
Yes but hypertrophy isn't about 'lifting at your max', it is simply about fatiguing the muscles to breakdown fibres. Have you ever heard of the theory of pre-exhaustion? Many BBers do this, for example doing some high rep flyes or crossovers before benching - obviously you wouldn't be able to bench as much as you would if you were benching fresh, but you are still breaking down the muscle fibres and still inducing hypertrophy.
 
This is exactly the same concept. Your shoulders are getting worked by hitting chest, in other words they are being pre-exhausted, already fatigued, broken down. Your delt muscles don't know or care whether you are overhead pressing X kg or Y kg, if they are being fatigued they are being fatigued. So yes if you are into strongman or weightlifting whereby you obviously need to OHP at your max, then prioritise the lift in your programme. Other than that, there is no need and in fact just means, in this case, that you are hitting your shoulders twice per week.
 
Aside from anything else, in your suggested routine, there is a 2:1 imbalance in favour of pushing to pulling. When you consider that most experts would recommend at the very least a 1:1 ratio of pushing:pulling in order to preserve your rotator cuff health, and many would in fact recommend up to a 3:1 imbalance in favour of pulling to negate the strength imbalances most of us already have due to our lifestyle of poor posture and slouching over computer screens all day, then a routine where you have so much more pushing than pulling simply cannot be good your rotator cuffs. Not a problem if you are a pro-BBer with genetics of the gods allowing you to perform movements safely that most mere mortals cannot, but AGAIN, most of us are not.