Starting out with self defence.

I know there's a lot of guys on here with experience in fighting but what would you recommend to someone who's never been in a fight in their lives, doesn't really want to be in a fight in their lifetime but just fancies learning something for the "just in case".  There's a Krav Maga school near me which sounds interesting but is it just a gimmick??

buy a gun! your going to get a million answers all different from the martial arts experts all convinced that theirs is the best!
 
surely you must have had a scrap or two when you were younger?  not that it would remotely help you in self defence now

The one and only fight I can remember occured at a bonfire when I was about 6.  Can't remember what started it but I kicked my opponent in the nuts which caused him to bend down in front of me and them I ponuded on the back of his head until he cried.  I then apologised and shook his hand coz that's the kind of nice guy I am.  Since then......nothing.  I did however set the high score on the punch bag machine at the bowling alley at christmas

EDBANGER


The one and only fight I can remember occured at a bonfire when I was about 6.  Can't remember what started it but I kicked my opponent in the nuts which caused him to bend down in front of me and them I ponuded on the back of his head until he cried.  I then apologised and shook his hand coz that's the kind of nice guy I am.  Since then......nothing.  I did however set the high score on the punch bag machine at the bowling alley at christmas

haha! thats a pretty good self defence technique to be honest, although id probably go with a good kick to the nuts and then legging it, and miss out the punching the back of the head, and definately miss out the apologising afterwards!
 
You wont take someone out with a good kick to the nuts, but it will sure as hell make it much harder for them to chase you!
 
 

Having done a bit of a few things but being an expert in none, I would say anything that teaches you to strike efficiently would be useful. Also having some grappling skill would be handy if the fight goes to the ground which is the last place you'd want it to go in a street fight.
 
I'd say yes, give krav maga ago. Anything that is direct and straight to the point wins over complicated moves which you'd never remember under all the adrenalin of a real situation.
 
I would also recommend reading some stuff on psychology of confrontation and how to try and talk an attacker down before it escalates to violence. Geoff Thompson's writings would be worth a read.

Krav is pretty hardcore i would say probably they best self defence 
its not pretty to watch but very effective 

Yep, anything that get's me to the point of running away with the least chance of them chasing is what I'm after
 
Like the idea of that book aswell.  Sounds interesting.

Id find a Brazilian JJ club and start there, covers grappelling,take downs (and defence) and a bit of stand up.Most fights end up on the floor in 5 seconds and BJJ focuses on this.Next thing Id go for if a BJJ club isnt availiable is kickboxing.Boxing is arguably the best form of self defence and combined with kicks can be very effective.At the BJJ club I trained at everyone was really cool and there to learn not have a pop at me cos I was the biggest there-this is important when youre rolling with a black belt (Roger Gracie was owning me left right and could of seriously snapped stuff).
 
OLI

Friend who works in Somalia doing BG work was telling me he didnt rate Krav as apparantly if youre done for a fight and they find out you are KM,or any offensive strike discipline trained it will count against you as opposed to a system (name escapes me) of open palm strikes.(ie not using credit cards to slash your opponent etc).Same guy (about 13 stone) teaches these methods of self defence and best thing was when he took on two big guys  from the gym who were doubting him from a standing start (one was strangling him hard other had bear hug on).Both on the floor in 10 seconds.
 
OLI

Really?  Surly if you were just to put someone on their arse and retreat in self defence then it doesn't matter what you're trainined in.  I accept that if you continue to dish out the kicking when they're down then that's not gonna look good.

He was saying if you strike someone,closed palm (ie fist) and you hurt them badly-you WILL be charged with ABH/GBH whatever.Open palm is not a strike but classed as a "push" apparantly.And if they find out not only you battered them but are trained in a particular aggressive discipline,you will be done for it.We have a boxer at my gym-not a pro but obv good-he said same thing, he would go down hard if he got into a scrap and they found out he was trained, self defence or not.Ironically if someone breaks into your house you can stab **** out of them in self defence.Bit mad huh.But I trust him, he does this **** for a living.Go with the BJJ IMO.
 
OLI

Drop me a pm telling me where you're based Ed and I'll try to sort you out with a good club / instructor.
 
Darcy gave a good response, good to see someone highlighting the importance of the psychological side of things, ime / imo (clearly not just my opinion) this is what seperates realistic self defence from impractical systems that stand no chance of working. You cannot ignore the psychological aspect of self defense / self protection, it plays far too big a part and any system which does neglect this aspect is full of bolllocks imo / ime.
 
Krav is good, in principle, that said I've also seen and experienced a lot of **** systems / instructors claiming to teach krav when they quite clearly don't. You also need to be aware that krav maga has become highly commercialised and thus watered down.
 
BJJ is an interesting system which I'm enjoying training in, but imo and again the opinion of others that have made pursuing / teaching street effective martial arts their profession, it's far from effective / appropriate for use in a self defence situation. You do need to understand grappling from several different perspectives but spending too much time in a system which predominantly fights from a position on the floor is counterproductive for your purposes.
 
That opinions clearly going to get the backs up of a lot of guys that train / teach in that system but again, not just my opinion but one that is shared by the guys I train with / under that have lived and trained over in Brasil and have strong connections with some of the top BJJ guys. Over there BJJ is considered a game, a good game which as I say I'm enjoying immensely.
 
Interesting subject which I happen to make a living from, am clearly very passionate about and have a great deal of experience in but not wishing to stand accused of any e-hardman shenanigans, that's as much as I would like to add to this thread.

Osagi I agree with your points but I would say 99pc of fights DO end up on the floor so a system that primarily teaches grappelling is going to be the most effective, no? youre right it is a game,I equate it to chess.One move attacking or countering another.Teaches you above all to remain calm and think under extreme pressure.
 
OLI

You're correct Oli, you need to learn how to deal with grappling / being taken to the floor but what you really require is a system which teaches you how to avoid being taken to the floor or, having been taken down, how to get back to your feet asap. BJJ specialises in ground fighting, i.e. fighting from the floor, not the two aforementioned skills and especially not the latter.
 
As taught to us over here, there's an awful lot missing from the art and sadly once again, it's started to become watered down.
 
Still many guys regard it as the ultimate system for self defence, based largely (as everything is these days) on the perceived effectiveness of the system via the ufc, mma, etc.
 
When asking instructors over in Brasil about it's effectiveness, i.e. would they resort to grappling in a true self defence situation - nfw, bearing in mind the high liklihood of a blade being pulled and utilised over in brasil. As I say, to those guys it's just a game and everybody plays it, to us it's somehow been protrayed as the ultimate in street self defence. Very clever marketing imo which started with the formulation of the ufc.
 
I myself love a roll, but with my background in other arts it scares me to know just how exposed a system like bjj actually leaves you.

Im particularly interested in the psycholgy side of it.. a friend who had a bit of a rep as a fighter when younger and went on to a rather good job with the NHS teaching practical self-defence techniques (you wouldnt believe how many nurses get assaulted at work/when travelling home) swore that most fights are decided in the first 1 or 2 blows (I believe Geoff Thompson says in the 1st three seconds), and that the first 1 or 2 blows are nearly always decided by the psychological issues in the confrontation before it kicks off.... ie if youare either disarming enough to take them y surprise, or intimidating enough to get in there while they're still deciding if they want things to get physical enough, then the first couple of decent blows you strike will make just about everything thereafter a foregone conclusion

My rules when Ive been in some potentially nasty situations working in clubs were one,always keep people at at least an arms length and two ideally have a wall behind you.Personally I always talked down situations or did the "friend" thing until backup arrived and they were removed.Its thinking fast on your feet.
 
OLI

Osagi is right in my opinion. I love BJJ, it's like physical chess. A great fun sport to watch and participate in. However, in a street fight you don't want to be taken down in the first place, and if you are, you want to use your grappling skills to just escape and get back up. No point trying to tie up a nice kimura or reverse triangle whilst the guys mates are kicking your head in or his girlfriend is putting her high heel through your face. So yes, some experience of groundfighting is essential, but I don't think BJJ should be the main course in a self defence portfolio.
 
As well as Krav Maga, maybe an MMA type gym could be another option. A lot offer packages where you can attend different classes and mix and match what you want to do. however, be aware that a lot of these gyms are geared towards competition fighting and not reality based defence.

Oliver Price


My rules when Ive been in some potentially nasty situations working in clubs were one,always keep people at at least an arms length and two ideally have a wall behind you.Personally I always talked down situations or did the "friend" thing until backup arrived and they were removed.Its thinking fast on your feet.

OLI

 
Thats what I mean, 100% psychology. If you can keep someone talking for long enough for help to arrive then strikes, take-downs etc are irrelevant.
 
Getting caught and taken to the ground should be an absolute last resort IMO, even if you're a jujitsu master... apart from leaving you vulnerable to the attackers mates, even if you come out of the situation on top you've still been rolling around on the pavement, or a grubby beer-stained floor

The thing that puts me off going to a MMA gym is the amount of jumped up chav types that will more than likely be there wanting to prove something and be the next big name in cage fighting.  Maybe I'm just making assumptions based on stereo types there so someone please put me right if I'm wrong.  From what I've read about the Krav thing, it's just as likely to be the nurses etc that want to be there just to learn a little something to help protect themselves?
 
I've been looking at a few of Geoff Thompsons titles.  Anyone recommend anthing in particular?
 
Osagi, will drop you a PM shortly.  Be interested to see if you've heard of the guys place that I was thinking of.

Dead or Alive is a good place to start. Also google some video clips of something he calls 'the fence'.