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Steriods for tendon repair.......

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maddog1311
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2011/09/29 16:08:51 (permalink)

Steriods for tendon repair.......

I'm sure this has been done in the past but I'm looking to answer this once and for all! The doctor says I have tennis elbow and pretty much my arm feels sore doing the smallest of things, i haven't trained for 4 weeks, I have a physio appointment on Oct 4th.
 
Background, trained natural for ten years, excellent diet, gone from 13 stone to just under 17, around 16stone 7 now.
 
Now I feel I owe it to myself to have a little help! From reading Deca is the one to go for in low doses as this increases collagen? I can get Nando test which is 200mg of deca and 200mg of test per ml. I was thinking of doing 0.5ml for 20 weeks, which would be 100mg of each.
Would gyno be a concern at such low doses? What PCT would you recomend?  I was going to start 3 weeks after my last shot but unsire how long to run PCT for.
 
Is all the above complete rubbish?! Any one have any experience on this?
 
Thanks
 
#1

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    WannabBigger
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/29 16:16:18 (permalink)
    eq increases collagen synthesis greater than deca does.

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    #2
    maddog1311
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/29 16:19:39 (permalink)
    would this have to be run super lose does as well? Also would i need test with this?
    #3
    stokie
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/29 16:24:35 (permalink)
    Will depend on what type of tendon damage you have,

    I've found Decca and oxy help with the pain but no real
    Help with tendon repair
    #4
    WannabBigger
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/29 16:35:22 (permalink)
    While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with thetendons of a very old man.

    winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. tendons tear easily on it.

    Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

    winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

    You can plan a cycle of anabolic steroids which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

    deca, Equipoise, anavar, and primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use anabolic steroids like sus, testosterone cypionate, or testosterone enanthate.

    While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

    To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase Joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like eq, deca, anavar, or primo as the base of your cycle. testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar andprimo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

    deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

    primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

    Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

    Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies doenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

    These drugs have longer half-lives than most other anabolic steroids, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

    deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days primobolan: 10.5 days

    anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

    GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, HGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

    eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

    Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the Libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain anabolic steroids, the decision is up to you.

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    #5
    Tony Barnes
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/29 16:38:58 (permalink)
    Personally I wouldn't use steroids to treat tennis elbow, particularly if I'd stayed clean for that long and progressed as you have. Though obviously each to their own.
     
    What other options have been presented?
    #6
    PartyBoy
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/29 19:02:32 (permalink)
    There is evidence to suggest that steroids (in general) can create a stiffer tendon, therefore prone to failure, with lessened elongation. I have also seen in vitro data which suggests that steroids (deca in this case) enhanced the mechanical properties of bioartifically engineered rotator cuff tendons. More research is needed.

     

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    maddog1311
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/30 11:00:05 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the input here guys. No other options except for physio. Just sick of it now.
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    Clubber Lang
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/09/30 11:07:10 (permalink)
    ive always been under the impression steroids weaken tendons, like PartyBoy says, it drys them out and stiffens them up. Ive pulled more tendons while on steds than off.
    Meds like Deca only mask the injury, doesnt help repair it. I pulled my back badly years ago, and when running AAS i have no problem, but when i start to come off, zang, my lower back starts to ache as the past injury starts to surface again.
     
    Cissus is great for tendon repair. So is ice and compression, which your physio should recommend, but i wouldnt wait till the 4th october to find out, get treating it now. Dont put heat on it either!

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    Grendel
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/10/01 17:12:59 (permalink)
    WannabBigger- thanks for the great post!! it's that kind of info that really sheds some light, as it's that area that IMHO is highly over-looked most times... just because a med will put some kgs on your bones, doesn't make it the best choice, especially where longevity is concerned, as it sure is hard to keep gains made when injured or trying to recover from injury/ and or injury related surgery.

    weighted dips 67 kgs 3 solid reps
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    #10
    maddog1311
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    Re:Steriods for tendon repair....... 2011/10/06 15:43:24 (permalink)
    All great info here guys! I have had my physio exam and it isnt tennis elbow. Its deferred pain from an old shoulder injury, basically the nerves don't glide as freely as they should. got some stretching techniques to do daily and been given the OK to train, but advised high reps low weight.
     
    Im still tempted to do 100mg of deca and 100mg test a week to see what effect it has on me.
     
     
    #11
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