Super mix...

Hi Folks.
 
I am considering getting a 500g tub of each of these supplements and taking them in addition to my usual HMB, Creatine, and Whey.
 
A good idea? - comments please... 
 
1. Glycine
2. AAKG (Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate)
3. BA (Beta Alanine)
4. OKG (L-Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate)
5. DAM (Di Arganine Malate)
6. NAC (N-Acetyl L-Cysteine)
7. Citrulline Malate
8. NAG (N-Acetyl L-Glutamine)
9. DAA (D-Aspartic Acid)
 
I am trying to copy the likes of BSN N.O. Xplode with the key ingredients, and make my own bulk box.
with 500g of each product, that 500gx9 so nearly 5kg for approx £250.
 
Is that cheaper in portion size to paying £?? for branded products?
 
In accuracy, i wouldn't just mix 500g of each product, they would have to be set at correct portion sizes and ratios etc.  but you get the idea.
 
Cheers,
Karl.

thats an expensive list of sh1t that wont do much, spend 250 quid on food mate!
 
the only thing I woudl think is useful on that list is Citruline, can help increase endurance - but i still wouldnt bother buying it.
 
also HMB - wasting your money there as well, only study that showed it did anything was by the people that brought it to market.
 
no xplode has caffeine in it also, you dont have that on your list  - just buy no xplode if thats what you want.
 

Thanks. i was begining to think along those lines.

I don't want caffine so would go with their caffine free version.

It sounds like one side says they work, and others say waste of time.

I will spend 30$ on the NO Xplode 800g tub and see for myself.

It does all sound so promising, the fall is less painful from 30$ as opposed to £250 :-)

Here is the spec of the non caffine one....

N.O.-Xplode™ 2.0's Proprietary Blend 19.6 g   Advanced Strength & Performance Matrix*   ** Modified Glucose Polymers (Maltodextrin), Beta-Alanine (CarnoSyn®), Di-Creatine-Malic Acid Interfusion, Betaine HCL, Sodium Bicarbonate, Creatine-Sodium Phosphate Matrix, Creatinol-O-Phosphate, Malic Acid, Glycocyamine, Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL, Guanidino Propionic Acid, Cinnamon Extract (Bark) (Cinnulin PF®), Ketoisocaproate Potassium, Creatine-Alpha-Aminobutyric Acid Matrix (Creatine AAB™) Ener-Tropic Xplosion   ** L-Tyrosine, Taurine, Glucuronolactone, L-Tyrosine-Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid, MCT's (Medium Chain Triglycerides), Lesser Periwinkle (Whole Plant) (95% Vinpocetine, 98% Vincamine, 98% Vinburnine) N.O. Meta-Fusion   ** L-Arginine-Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid, L-Citrulline-Malic Acid Interfusion, L-Citrulline-Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid, L-Histidine-Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid, NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide), Gynostemma (Leaves & Stem) (90% Gypenosides) Phospho-Electrolyte Composite   ** Di-Calcium Phosphate, Di-Potassium Phosphate, Di-Sodium Phosphate Glycerol Polymer Complex   ** Potassium Glycerophosphate, Magnesium Glycerophosphate, Glycerol Stearate

You mean, you are trying to recreate something you have never used before. Thats a bit mad

I'd spend £150 on a decent steroid/prohormone cycle and use the remainder to supplement my diet with extra protein and calories on top of what I already have for the duration. At least that way you'd see some difference afterwards. 
 
+1 to bicep_bill though, that really is an expensive load of sh1t that won't do much. 

stacks similar(strictly not the same) are only useful/justifyable on TOP of High Intensity+Volume for you routine( _+ Clean Diet) .
They are supplements designed to SUPPLEMENT all of the above,and they of course can make you mentally push yourself a bit more if there is no overtraining/underfeeding like in my case,
 
start with the diet first-nail it to the smallest detail then start toying with supps, all of that on top of Hihg Intensity Volume training to failure-somehow you should be able to  find the sweet spot in the right amount calories,trial and error I guess,be carefull with overtraining as I personallt heavily overtrained and go literally mental in a week of not training.
 
having said that I 've piled some of them kilos of the above supps,all this is for non-assisted trainers,if you're jabbing the rules of the game are different..

oh don't waste your time with no2 like these,there just 1,2 or 3 at most key ingredients(in no2 case that is glucoronaloctonre,fancy caggeine name ) there that do the job,the rest is just nonsense ,in god knows what amount and does not work thinfs like arginine and caffeine etc. most of these ingr work on their own,no2 is just advertising and even if pros use it nothing is due to this particular supp. I haven't read it,bbut I think osagi stack has some no nonse list of ingredients like citrulmal,argini,tyrosine...

Sentinal


I'd spend £150 on a decent steroid/prohormone cycle and use the remainder to supplement my diet with extra protein and calories on top of what I already have for the duration. At least that way you'd see some difference afterwards.

Suggesting spending the money on a cycle of gear to somebody who's stats and knowledge of them we do not not is a bit inconsiderate. For all we know he could be 19yo, 5'11 and weighing at 150lb, know nothing of aromatisation, estrogen/testosterone principles etc you get the picture.

But to the OP, I wouldn't waste my money either lol, you have whey, buy a tub of caffeine free N.O 2 to see if that's what you want from your Pre-WO.

Look into the Osagi stack, might be easier to roll with.

GREAT ADVICE SO FAR FOLKS!!!
 
I drink isolate and concentrate between meals and around training through the day, and eat and train hard too.
 
I am 64ft, 17.5 stone, have been lifting for 2 years, and am 36 yrs old. To give an idea of the weights i lift:
dumbell shoulder press, 30kg per arm.
dumbell chest press, 38kg per arm.
Rear seated row, 90kg.
seated pull down, 85kg.
I do chest one day, back another, then shoulders, then bicep/tricep, then legs, inbetween days i will do a 50 min cardio.
 
I am very much toying with the idea of PH's but i don't like the side effects of spotty skin, erectile disfunction, temper/moods, and strain on liver/kidneys, and messing about with test levels.
 
That said, if PH's really do work well, and are safe if taken as directed, and only need to be taken for 4weeks? 8weeks? at a time to get results that last, then i think i am up for it.
 
If i was to take PH's would i notice muscular growth if training and eating and resting well?  Would those gains remain if i stop PH's but continue to eat train and rest well?  It's not a case of easy gain, easy lost is it?
 
As a beginner what could i do to understand more about the conecpt of PH and my options?
 
My reason for looking at all those £250 supplements was because they state they increase growth hormone, defend against fatigue, make your blood flow better, keep the pump of the muscle etc.  If they do this for 12 months while training hard and eating and resting well, then would gains not been seen above taking no suplements?  or are we just saying thatAAKG and NAC and L-xxx and N-xxx Esther this and Acetate that are just a pile of marketing sh1t?
 
All i want is to get the best muscular growth from the effort of training i put in, and if i can assist that process in a safe way by spending a little cash, then i will.  But I'm not wasting my dosh on empty powders if there is no need. 
 
Your advice has been great, and i reckon you'll be able to point me in the right direction....
 
Cheers,
Karl.

If you want advice on PH's/DS's then post it in that section buddy.
 
Those products (PH's/DS's) are steroids though, and they need the correct approach and usage, and also, PCT planning.
 
 

I wouldn't have the shankes inbetween meals unless a) your meals in the don't have enough protein in them, and/or b) yur meals don't provide enough kcals through the day.
 
Its a tangent I know.
 
Back on point, I agree with Bill. I'd scap the whole list tbh. What supps state on the tub and what they actually do can be a big bug gulf!

Vapor

Sentinal


I'd spend £150 on a decent steroid/prohormone cycle and use the remainder to supplement my diet with extra protein and calories on top of what I already have for the duration. At least that way you'd see some difference afterwards.

Suggesting spending the money on a cycle of gear to somebody who's stats and knowledge of them we do not not is a bit inconsiderate. For all we know he could be 19yo, 5'11 and weighing at 150lb, know nothing of aromatisation, estrogen/testosterone principles etc you get the picture.

But to the OP, I wouldn't waste my money either lol, you have whey, buy a tub of caffeine free N.O 2 to see if that's what you want from your Pre-WO.

Possibly missing the point he was trying to make, which I think is this: the OP seems hell bent on buying results in pill or powder form, ie 'taking' something outside of food that will give him better results. This is very common of course, seeing as we live in a quick fix pill society - if you have a headache, take a pill. If you're tired and need to wake up take a pill. If you can't sleep and want to conk out, take a pill. So logically we are conditioned to think if you want to gain muscle, take a pill.

The problem with this mentality is that realistically the only thing that you can 'take' other than food in order to gain muscle is AAS. The point is if the OP is looking for a magic pill, he won't find it over the counter.

OK, perhaps my earlier post was a little flippant, but CitazenKane outlined the point I should have made nicely. 
 
OP - If you're doing everything ok with regards to training and diet, and by that I mean you're seeing steady and maintainable progress then perhaps you are ready to make the leap to stronger stuff. I will say however that it is certainly not something you should feel obliged to do, nor will it cause quick and massive physique changes, rather a nice boost in strength and mass, which, if done correctly, you'll keep. 
 
I'm not one of these people that thinks you lose all or most of your gains when you come off steroid/PH cycles, and I speak from experience. I also have never experienced sides such as spotty skin, erectile disfunction and temper or moods, however everyone is different. I can't say the same for liver toxicity since I've not measured values, but of course there is hepatoxicity associated with any methylated compound, so a responsible approach is needed. 
 
To answer some of your questions, a prohormone is a hormonal molecule that is a precursor to a hormone. The body is able to metabolise the prohormone so that the hormonal molecule is liberated, and its effects can be exerted. If diet/training etc are all good, then you can expect some nice gains from a PH/steroid cycle; a stone in 6 weeks is not an unrealistic goal, but your choice of compound plays a large role. Wiki is a good place to read and learn about the science behind these compounds, and is generally free of bias. 
 
Common PH/steroid compounds that are available on supplement websites include epistane/havoc, halodrol, superdrol, dzine, M1T, pro-one, tren, and stanodrol. Of these the first 3 are the most popular. Of these superdrol and M1T (especially) are very powerful, and should be used with caution. Some 'prohormones' are in fact steroids (they exist in their active form), epistane and superdrol being examples. Dose and cycle duration is based on the compound, for instance you could take superdrol at 30mg ED for 4 weeks and gain more than a 6 week halodrol cycle @ 75mg ED. There are pro's and con's to every cycle, which is why is it important to be clued up beforehand. 
 
Test levels will decrease on cycle, and you may experience some testicular shrinkage. However this (for me anyway) has always been temporary. A PCT (post cycle therapy) is always recommended after a cycle, and is aimed at restoring your HTPA back to normal - ie, increasing the body's testosterone production and returning the testes to normal size and function. A SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) is normally used, such as tamoxifen citrate. AI (aromatase inhibitors) can be used during the cycle to reduce oestrogenic side effects, since some androgenic molecules can convert to oestrogen's in the body via enzymatic reactions. Arimidex and anastrozole are powerful AI's, others include 6-bromo and ATD. 
 
Some people advocate the use of liver cleansing compounds to try to aid the liver during cycles. I am not a huge believe in the efficacy of these products, but they deserve a mention. Milk thistle is a popular ingredient, and its silymarin content is believed to aid the liver in dealing with methylated compounds and free radical damage. 
 
As you can see, there is a lot to learn. This is just off the top of my head and is by no means exhaustive, so apologies for any errors that I may have made. Hope it helps a bit though!

KS_Manchester
I am 64ft

 
 
Bloody hell, you're tall!  ;-)
 

Arrrgh I apologise then, I took the point wrong I can see it now though citizenkane.

This is what I've just ordered to make a decent pre-workout stack, works out at 65p a serving
 
10g BCAA's
2.5g Citrulline Malate
5g Creatine Gluconate
5g Taurine
2g Glycine

Shae,
 
Why the glycine pre workout? I wasn't aware of any benefits pre, but more post?

Tbh mate, it was like £3/4 for 250g so thought it was worth a try... Looked good when I was reading up on it... I can always add it to me PWO shake instead

What a headache that list would be. I think I'd rather give up training than have to make that up, with it's different measurements of each product.
Training and diet is where I'd focus on tbh.