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Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically....

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tac
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2011/10/21 09:50:51 (permalink)

Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically....

http://www.newscientist.c...at-runs-the-world.html
 
Very interesting article from the New scientist, based on complex-systems data analysis. David Icke and 'were all controlled by the illuminati' aside, it shows that actually the global economy is controlled by a relatively small group of corporations and individuals (whether they conspire/cooperate together is a matter of personal opinion/paranoia - the article just looks at the mathematical facts).
 
It shows 1318 companies effectively control over 80% of the entire global economy, with around 1/2 of that controlled by just 147 (of which only ONE actually produces anything/contributes to real world growth, as opposed to simply moving numbers/money around).
 
Most of these 147 companies have more financial clout than all but a handful of the largest/wealthiest nation states...


#1

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    Wheels
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 10:00:23 (permalink)
    Just because it's a fact, doesn't mean it means anything
     
    It doesn't actually look at control at all, it's looking at connections.  That's why a quite small insurance company like L&G is close to the top of the list, rather than GE or Newscorp say.

      




    #2
    RobW
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 10:00:44 (permalink)
    150 years ago one woman ruled the majority of the World and Economical power... So you will have to agree things are improving for the "working Man"...
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    tac
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 10:25:09 (permalink)
    Wheels

    Just because it's a fact, doesn't mean it means anything



    Thats why I was careful to post it without adding my personal interpretation. It may or may not 'mean' something. Facts are facts - meanings are the interpretations that we choose to put on those facts, and often say more about us than they do about the fact in question!


    #4
    tac
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 10:33:26 (permalink)
    RobW

    150 years ago one woman ruled the majority of the World and Economical power... So you will have to agree things are improving for the "working Man"...

    Thats kind of why I found the article interesting  -the world is changing, but of course its human nature to evolve hierarchies and power structures. The difference between now and 150 years ago is we knew exactly who that woman was, and the fact of her power was indisputable.
     
    In Queen Victoria's day the queen, her government, and the corporations who enjoyed royal charters to operate in the empire 'controlled' the global economy - the 'conspiracy' (if you choose to call it that) was out in the open, as was their agenda (to further the interests of the crown and the empire).
     
    Now, the situation is much more complex, and impersonal, and most people unless they're experts on global economics and geopolitics are unlikely to know who or what exactly is at the top of the pyramid -hence the proliferation of conspiracy theories - an unknown entity leaves plenty of room for speculation.


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    Wheels
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 10:33:57 (permalink)
    TBH I think the study is rather flawed.  It's set out to identify connections and relationships in essence and, surprise, surprise, what you get is a list of finacial services companies.  Being interconnected is there main purpose, to spread capital and risks between parties.  They seem to have concluded just because something fllows, that whatever it flows through controls it.

      




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    Rasputin
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 10:43:12 (permalink)
    What a load of ****e it actually made my eyes bleed as someone who is a statisticien and employed in FS I have never read so much ****ing tripe as that. Super connected dont create anything wtf those firms probably create more jobs for more people than many of the manufacturing giants today

    Ra Ra Rasputin lover of the Russian Queen, Ra Ra Ra Rasputin Russia's greatest love machine (Allegedly)
    #7
    tac
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 11:18:08 (permalink)
    Wheels

    TBH I think the study is rather flawed.  It's set out to identify connections and relationships in essence and, surprise, surprise, what you get is a list of finacial services companies.  Being interconnected is there main purpose, to spread capital and risks between parties.  They seem to have concluded just because something fllows, that whatever it flows through controls it.

    But isnt that true, in a sense - or at least whoever controls what it flows through controls it.
     
    If you have total control of all the world's major gas and oil pipelines, plus the tanker fleets, cant you be said to have significant control of the world's oil supply?


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    tac
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 11:20:34 (permalink)
    Rasputin

    What a load of ****e it actually made my eyes bleed as someone who is a statisticien and employed in FS I have never read so much ****ing tripe as that. Super connected dont create anything wtf those firms probably create more jobs for more people than many of the manufacturing giants today

    You're probably right.
     
    But you're a smart guy with a good knowledge of economics - what happens to an economic system when 'wealth' (job creation, wages) becomes completely detached from production? (ie is no longer backed by any real world commodity)


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    Wheels
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 14:00:52 (permalink)
    tac
    But isnt that true, in a sense - or at least whoever controls what it flows through controls it.

    If you have total control of all the world's major gas and oil pipelines, plus the tanker fleets, cant you be said to have significant control of the world's oil supply?

     
    Nope, if you control all the worlds energy distribution you would indeed control the worlds energy, but being an insurance company does not give you control of the world.  In the study the have the following statement on the word control;
     
    "In this sense, our notion of control can be related to Max Weber’s definition of 'power', ie, the probability of an individual to be able to impose its will despite the opposition of the others." It is up for question, if economic agents, having large potential control, would in fact choose not to exert it.
     
    I'm also curious as why, if indeed these companies control the world, quite a number of them have gone bust.

      




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    tac
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 16:49:26 (permalink)
    Because they werent very good at it?
     
    Thats a bit like saying "if the British empire was so large and powerful, how come it fell apart"? The fact that the empire unravelled in no way detracts from the fact that, at one point in time, it was the largest the world had ever seen.
     
    Well, there are many (and complex) reasons why it did - but in short, situations change, and holding a substantial proportion of wealth/power today is no absolute guarantee that one will still hold it tomorrow - otherwise we'd all still be being ruled by Egyptian Pharoahs or Roman Emperors...  


    #11
    MT2006
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/21 16:57:58 (permalink)
    Barclays?
     
    That's quite good then! Nothing stopping you or me becoming a part owner of the worlds most powerful company, you could also buy into it quite cheaply over the next couple of years I suspect.
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    Wheels
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/22 02:11:08 (permalink)
    tac
     Because they werent very good at it?

    Thats a bit like saying "if the British empire was so large and powerful, how come it fell apart"? The fact that the empire unravelled in no way detracts from the fact that, at one point in time, it was the largest the world had ever seen.

    Well, there are many (and complex) reasons why it did - but in short, situations change, and holding a substantial proportion of wealth/power today is no absolute guarantee that one will still hold it tomorrow - otherwise we'd all still be being ruled by Egyptian Pharoahs or Roman Emperors...  

     
    They don't have as much control as some like to believe then do they lol

      




    #13
    spencerslide
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/22 08:09:36 (permalink)
    its a sphere of influence
     
    I walk into a room with David Cameron, Obama Barack, putin et al...my sphere of influence is ziltch.
     
    I have a gun in my hand though....suddenly my sphere of influence on things look different.
     
    Our financial houses have the gun.
    #14
    tac
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    Re:Taking off the tin-foil hats, lets look at it mathematically.... 2011/10/22 10:42:04 (permalink)
    spencerslide

    its a sphere of influence

    I walk into a room with David Cameron, Obama Barack, putin et al...my sphere of influence is ziltch.

    I have a gun in my hand though....suddenly my sphere of influence on things look different.

    Our financial houses have the gun.

    Have you been reading Mao Tze Tung's Little Red Book spence?
     
    Actually its a very good point (as it was when Mao made it) - 'power' and 'control' and VERY relative concepts, and can change readily. If I am up to date with my motgage and have a few thousand in savings then my bank manager has little or no 'control' over my life. If Im 2 months behind on the mortgage and overdrawn, then when I phone the bank pleading for an extension on my overdraft, at that point the power and control they have over me is considerable. Same me, same bank, but a change in circumstances ENTIRELY changes the power relationship between us - just as the power relationship between you and any other person entirely changes the moment you have a gun in your hand (literal or metaphorical).
     
    In that sense, what the model DOESNT show is who controls the world's economy - more who has the potential to control the world economy. Whether they actually use/abuse this power depends on whether or not you subscribe to conspiracy theories or not. These, in effect, and the businesses that own the guns - whether they're pointing them at anyone's head is a matter of political opinion
     


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