Think im gaining fat on my lean bulk! grrrrr

Stats, 

Male, 23 years old, 83.3kgs, bf around 15% last time i checked using calipers.

Current meal plan,

Meal 1, (pre gym)

2 scoops of whey
100g oats with water
15g honey
10g walnuts/pecan nuts (recent addition)
Fish oil and glutamine caps

Meal totals - 56g pro, 75g carbs, 16g fat,  668 cals

Meal 2, (pwo & ppwo) 1.5 scoops whey
25g dextrose
280g white pots
100g broccoli/green beans/spinach 
60g steak/chicken/pork/mince
10g benecol light

Meal totals - 54g pro, 78g carbs, 7g fat, 591 cals

Meal 3


90g Wholewheat pasta
120g grean beans
1 pear
135g pork/steak/mince or 120g chicken

Meal totals - 40g pro, 76g carbs, 5g fat, 509 cals

Meal 4


90g uncooked weight rice
120g green beans
135g pork/steak/mince or 120g chicken

Meal totals - 42g pro, 70g carbs, 6g fat, 502cals

Meal 5


5 whole eggs (mainly) or 200g salmon (once or twice a week)
Half a slice of wholemeal bread (recent addition)

Meal totals - 39g pro, 8g carbs, 33g fat, 485 cals

Night shake


1.5 scoops of casein - 37g pro, 180cals

DAILY TOTALS


268g pro, 302g carbs, 67g fat, 2949cals

Cals are always around the 3000cal mark, perhaps 100-200 lower on a rest day. I was having around 2700 on a training day and wasnt gaining but im now gaining 0.2kgs per week which was my goal. Strength is going up well and i get immense pumps but, to me, im losing definition and looking fatter rather than big and lean. So i thought id beg some of you pros to have a good look over my diet and put me right. Incase ive made some obvious mistakes, i still have alot to learn.

My job a quite physical hence the constant steady ammount of carbs even though i believe im quite carb sensitive which i why ive near removed them from my last meal of the day and replaced them with good fats. Im unsure if this was a wise move though, i came up with the idea after reading about TKD's and after the last meal of the day im usualy lazing around so thought this was the best way (even though ive never heard of anyone else doing it, maybe a bad move!)

I train on tuesday, wednesday, friday and saturday. Sunday i do 30mins low intensity cardio, i was going to add another day of cardio? but i need at least one full rest day so it would have to be on a training day at a different time.

Any advise at all would be great. Ive tried to crack this for ages now but never seem to get it right.

Thanks for your time.

Do some cardio

www.irepair.org.uk
Journal

theiopener


Do some cardio

What now?

Im just watcing x factor, can i do it later?

Seriously though, im not cardio shy but i thought it should be limited on a bulk?

Ill do more, i just dont want to do too much and ruin everything.

When would be best to get it in mate? Should i do longer durations than 30mins or do it more often? Should i do it on weight days at different times or after weights? Can i do it on my free days (monday and thursday) as it not exactly putting too much stress on the healing muscles.

If you wan to stay lean, do cardio.

Lots of theories are banded about these days, but most are codswollop.

Cardio while bulking is brilliant.

Off days, do 1 session of high intensity cardio. Keep it to a max of 30 mins. Warmup, cooldown etc.

You are going to have to learn your body mate, only way you can do that is try a few things and see what works. Then can you only know what will work, and what doesnt.

www.irepair.org.uk
Journal

I been doing this for years, and me like you, dont seem to be getting things just right.  One thing i have just started this week, and it seems to be helping me lose fat, i do 1 minute fast run then 1 minute fat walk, i do this for 12 minutes every time i do my weight training, i use it as my warm up.  I might start doing it on days off for longer, say 30 minutes. Good luck 

theiopener


If you wan to stay lean, do cardio.

Lots of theories are banded about these days, but most are codswollop.

Cardio while bulking is brilliant.

Off days, do 1 session of high intensity cardio. Keep it to a max of 30 mins. Warmup, cooldown etc.

You are going to have to learn your body mate, only way you can do that is try a few things and see what works. Then can you only know what will work, and what doesnt.

So doing cardio on all 3 of my off days shouldnt be a problem?

High intensity as in hiit or constant fast jog?

shall i try low intensity first then high a few weeks later? If my weight stops going up do i add more cals or drop abit of cardio?

So my diet looks ok? Even the high fat meal at the end of the day?

Sorry for all the q's, its hard understanding things when all ive ever read is, no cardio when bulking articles.

Paul sw6


I been doing this for years, and me like you, dont seem to be getting things just right.  One thing i have just started this week, and it seems to be helping me lose fat, i do 1 minute fast run then 1 minute fat walk, i do this for 12 minutes every time i do my weight training, i use it as my worm up.  I w=might start doing it on days off for longer, say 30 minutes. Good luck 

HIIT mate. I did it while cutting. It did the job for me then but i thought it was generally bad on a bulk. But many people will dissagree.

This is very simple.

If youre getting fat, do some hard cardio.

try it for 1 session per week, see how you do. If youve got more in the tank, do another one.

high intensity as in your heart rate is quite high and you cant talk.

Weight is not a guide of muscle. The mirror, your clothes and the tape measure all tell you how you look.

Do not go by the scales, you are training for a look, not a number. Its a long slow process.

www.irepair.org.uk
Journal

Bluebear

Paul sw6


I been doing this for years, and me like you, dont seem to be getting things just right.  One thing i have just started this week, and it seems to be helping me lose fat, i do 1 minute fast run then 1 minute fat walk, i do this for 12 minutes every time i do my weight training, i use it as my worm up.  I w=might start doing it on days off for longer, say 30 minutes. Good luck 

HIIT mate. I did it while cutting. It did the job for me then but i thought it was generally bad on a bulk. But many people will dissagree.

Yes and i am one of them who disagrees.

it works in my experience.

increased CV fitness = increased recovery, more energy to lift, better oxygen transport and healthier heart. Muscle needs blood, have a healthy heart thats used to a high CV workload and youll find carrying a lot more muscle is easier.

www.irepair.org.uk
Journal

theiopener


This is very simple.

If youre getting fat, do some hard cardio.

try it for 1 session per week, see how you do. If youve got more in the tank, do another one.

high intensity as in your heart rate is quite high and you cant talk.

Weight is not a guide of muscle. The mirror, your clothes and the tape measure all tell you how you look.

Do not go by the scales, you are training for a look, not a number. Its a long slow process.

 

Understood, thanks bud.

So the diet looks ok?

I dont see anything drasticlaly wrong with it personally.

You have protein, carbs and fats.

www.irepair.org.uk
Journal

Eat less, or do a bit more CV. or just accept the fact that you can put on a little fat if your still putting on a bit of muscle.

Powered by Zipvit - supplements - vitamins - minerals - sports nutrition

http://www.zipvitsport.co.uk/

What makes you think cardio is bad on a bulk bluebear?

tio has pointed out the many of the health benefits above. But also for bulking purposes it will raise metabolism. Thus more cals are utilised by the body rather than stored. Higher output = bigger input. The extra calories that you're processing and the more cell turnover there is the better. Teach your body to have a high energy output to maximise lean gains. You can of course do too much cardio resulting in dimished gains due to too much energy output and/or overtraining. So as above, good idea to start low and work up.

No problem with meal 5 imo, the fats are a good addition to a diet. The HIIT session(s) will allow for more carbs to be eaten also tho, as it is glycogen depleting. I'd stick with what you have diet wise and see what the cardio does. Remember tho carbs make you hold water, so often you think you're fatter than what you are. Think back to when you went keto and the difference it made after 1-2 weeks due to water loss.

I agree with iopener. Do cardio. simple as that. You need to get past thinking of cardio only as a means of burning fat...you need it offseason for your health too. Otherwise you'll be big, slow and wont breathe very well. Do it 2-3 times weekly. Personally before breakfast, steady state works best for me. Or just do it when its convenient, as long as you do it.

Diet wise;

According to your figures your eating approx. 2883kcal. Now I would recommend you aim to get 40% kcals from protein, 40% from carbs and maximum 20% from fats. So you should be aiming for approx. 65g fat, 294g protein and 294g carbs.

When eating carbs fats make you fat full stop so eating more than 20% of your daily intake will make you fat.

In terms of your dietary choices, you dont need bread before bed. Heck you dont need 33g of fat before bed!!! your body is primed to use carbs as energy so consuming 33g of fat then going to sleep will result in formation of adipose tissue. I'd say consume a lean, slow digesting protein before bed. You can up your calories during the day to make up any shortfall. Atleast this way you'll be using those calories instead of sleeping on them.

Also 135g of pork or steak has more than 5g of fat. Not only that it'll be a ton of saturated fat also. You'd be better off with some turkey or fish which will  be leaner and have just as much protein. Yes, good quality red meat has its advantage, but it quickly becomes a disadvantage eating it 2-3  times daily. There are a ton of alternative protein choices out there, liver being one which is yes a little high in fat but low in saturates. Fat is ok as long as you keep your saturates in check - some are needed for cholesterol and hormone production but dont over do it.

Your breakfast should also be your largest meal....so you can afford to up your carbs here and lessen them elsewhere...basically take in your biggest carb meals at breakfast and PWO.

Other than those minor things (doing light cardio, upping protein and altering food choices/meal sizes slightly) everything looks ok. I'd not be worried about a little fat. After all to gain weight you need to be taking in more than you burn off. Unfortunately there is no way to channel all those surplus calories 100% into making muscle, so you will inevitably, get a little fatter. Notice I said a little, not a lot.

Keep your diet in check, train hard, do a little cardio and have fun. Let the chips fall where they may!

Hope this helps

All4n


What makes you think cardio is bad on a bulk bluebear?

tio has pointed out the many of the health benefits above. But also for bulking purposes it will raise metabolism. Thus more cals are utilised by the body rather than stored. Higher output = bigger input. The extra calories that you're processing and the more cell turnover there is the better. Teach your body to have a high energy output to maximise lean gains. You can of course do too much cardio resulting in dimished gains due to too much energy output and/or overtraining. So as above, good idea to start low and work up.

No problem with meal 5 imo, the fats are a good addition to a diet. The HIIT session(s) will allow for more carbs to be eaten also tho, as it is glycogen depleting. I'd stick with what you have diet wise and see what the cardio does. Remember tho carbs make you hold water, so often you think you're fatter than what you are. Think back to when you went keto and the difference it made after 1-2 weeks due to water loss.

Cheers Allan, just worried about overtraining as work is really physical. Rest to grow ect. 

MikeS


I agree with iopener. Do cardio. simple as that. You need to get past thinking of cardio only as a means of burning fat...you need it offseason for your health too. Otherwise you'll be big, slow and wont breathe very well. Do it 2-3 times weekly. Personally before breakfast, steady state works best for me. Or just do it when its convenient, as long as you do it.

Diet wise;

According to your figures your eating approx. 2883kcal. Now I would recommend you aim to get 40% kcals from protein, 40% from carbs and maximum 20% from fats. So you should be aiming for approx. 65g fat, 294g protein and 294g carbs.

When eating carbs fats make you fat full stop so eating more than 20% of your daily intake will make you fat.

In terms of your dietary choices, you dont need bread before bed. Heck you dont need 33g of fat before bed!!! your body is primed to use carbs as energy so consuming 33g of fat then going to sleep will result in formation of adipose tissue. I'd say consume a lean, slow digesting protein before bed. You can up your calories during the day to make up any shortfall. Atleast this way you'll be using those calories instead of sleeping on them.

Also 135g of pork or steak has more than 5g of fat. Not only that it'll be a ton of saturated fat also. You'd be better off with some turkey or fish which will  be leaner and have just as much protein. Yes, good quality red meat has its advantage, but it quickly becomes a disadvantage eating it 2-3  times daily. There are a ton of alternative protein choices out there, liver being one which is yes a little high in fat but low in saturates. Fat is ok as long as you keep your saturates in check - some are needed for cholesterol and hormone production but dont over do it.

Your breakfast should also be your largest meal....so you can afford to up your carbs here and lessen them elsewhere...basically take in your biggest carb meals at breakfast and PWO.

Other than those minor things (doing light cardio, upping protein and altering food choices/meal sizes slightly) everything looks ok. I'd not be worried about a little fat. After all to gain weight you need to be taking in more than you burn off. Unfortunately there is no way to channel all those surplus calories 100% into making muscle, so you will inevitably, get a little fatter. Notice I said a little, not a lot.

Keep your diet in check, train hard, do a little cardio and have fun. Let the chips fall where they may!

Hope this helps

Very helpful post mate thanks.

So you would recommend me dropping carbs a little and increasing protein but leaving total fat the same? (well even though my totals from pork and beef are a little off, i do sit there and hack all the visable fat away before hand though ) 

Where would be the best place to add the fats? pre gym and in earlier meals?

The reason for the fats in the last meal were from the principles of a TKD, although slightly different their bodys are still primed to use carbs before fat. I eat meal 5 around 3hrs before bed though, just before bed i have a casein shake.

Without the fats and the little bit of low gi bread in my last meal, how will i meet my calorie goal? Just add the majority of carbs to my other 4 meals and maybe have a small amount in my last meal? I assumed it better to spread them out?

Bluebear

Very helpful post mate thanks.

So you would recommend me dropping carbs a little and increasing protein but leaving total fat the same? (well even though my totals from pork and beef are a little off, i do sit there and hack all the visable fat away before hand though ) 

Where would be the best place to add the fats? pre gym and in earlier meals?

The reason for the fats in the last meal were from the principles of a TKD, although slightly different their bodys are still primed to use carbs before fat. I eat meal 5 around 3hrs before bed though, just before bed i have a casein shake.

Without the fats and the little bit of low gi bread in my last meal, how will i meet my calorie goal? Just add the majority of carbs to my other 4 meals and maybe have a small amount in my last meal? I assumed it better to spread them out?

Just bump up the calories of your other meals i.e. make your PWO meal (not shake) larger....or make your breakfast larger or you pre-gym meal could contain slightly more fats. For meal 5 it really depends on your activity levels...if you eat meal 5 and watch tv for 3 hours before bed I'd have protein and a little fat...if your moderatley active have protein and a little carbs. If you eat enough carbs/protein you dont really need to add fats to your diet since protein sources contain fats anyway. Of course a little omega3's is beneficial.

I find keeping calories to 40% protein/carbs and max 20% fats works fine. Of course we're all individuals so you may prefer slightly more protein/carbs and less fats. But generally if your getting fatter reduce your fat intake.

Try it for a few weeks, 40-40-20, add in 2-3 sessions of moderate cardio per week and see where you are. Its all trial and error really.

Good luck!