UFC 104 spoiler

TheGunslinger

 
Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.
 

You should be a boxing judge mate.

The best man should have his hand raised at the end of a bout.

It does not matter if its a pair of novices, the worlds elite or whether there is a belt on the line.

End of debate.

TheGunslinger

toxo


shogun won every round, when theres no takedowns or grappling the judges are meant to score the fight on effective striking, octagon control and agression.

shogun landed more clean shots in every round and as he was throwing thai kicks rather then karate kicks he also hit harder.

shogun controlled the octagon and was more agressive  in every round a apart for about 20 second in the 3rd, he  was more agressive in every round including the majority of the 3rd.

those are the facts, the only thing machida did effectively was stuff shoguns shots and that only landed him in the 50/50 clinch were he got knee'ed and elbowed.

Im Sorry, but ive got to take issue with this.
 
First, there is not a chance Shogun won every round, you have to remember this is Machida's belt to lose, simply going out there and throw 1-2 combinations is not going to win you the belt, especially when more often than not in rounds 1 & 2 Machida's counters were much crisper and on the money.
 
Only when Machida lost mobility in his spring did Shogun start landing anything of significance and even then i saw only one clean shot connect with Machida's face (bloodied him up) and another hit him in the neck. The rest of the damage was to the torso and legs, to try and win a belt from a champion with body/leg kicks especially when he had Machida hurt many times and did not pursue is not going to cut a clear decision in any judges mind, it could have gone either way.
 
Rogans commentary is this match was disgusting and has turned me from a moderate fan into a "hater".
 
I had to rewatch several clips multiple times to actually comprehend that Joe was not recognising any of machida's landed shots (especially a few brutal knee's) but seemingly making love to every glancing blow Rua threw, it was simply unreal.
 
Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.
 
There is a difference in all combat sports, those who have ever competed for a belt will have been told this or know it from teachings.
 
Secondly, this is not fact as you say, its a subjective opinion based on the visual, audio and kinaesthetic information your brain took from the fight; in short your brain is bias lol.
 
I really wanted Rua to win as i am Muay Thai at my roots even though i transitioned into MMA, but when the final bell rang, i can say who i thought deserved to win, but i didnt have a clue who's hand would be raised.
 
Something interesting i picked up from Machida's corner was in the 4-5th round break his coach said "you have to find his timing!!!!", meaning even at that late stage he hadn't managed to get Rua's timings down which interests me as to the naked eye his movement was traditional Muay Thai, linear with a light front leg which i thought would have been the perfect meal for the dragon, obviously not lol.
 
Rothwell was terrible, tough as hell but completely under skilled to be fighting that calibre of fighter in his first fight, reminded me of a bigger Cabbage. Brock will cripple Cain. The only guy left with a shout is Nog with his diamond chin and submission skills.
 
I see an Anderson Silva Vs Rua fight sometime next year.
 
Suddenly the UFC divisions are looking extremely weak bar a few elite fighters in each division.
 

those are the facts, shogun landed more shots was more agressive ans controlled the cage, those are the criteria that is stipulated that a fight in the ufc should be judged by (not counting takedowns and groundwork that didnt happen in this fight) if you do not believe me you can check out one of the hundreds of computer break downs of the fight that are on line.
 
shogun beat machida, considering that machida rarely attacks and runs the whole time its unlikely he's ever going to get ko'ed and has very good tdd and jits so if you cant beat a champ on points like machida has won most of his fights machida will be camp forever, but luckly the rules dosnt say you have to k.o the champ or submit him to win.

Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.

 
 
 
but its mma not muay thai. you win for winning not because you are the champ

exactly machida shouldnt get the decision  for no other reason then he lost but  survived

What a crock of **** fight have watched it now. Bag of bollocks yes Shogun should have won but he could have done alot better imo. Crap fight waste of time all the yanks are going nuts ont he forums about having to pay for it as the whole card was **** not impressed

i like machida but his performance was sh1t shogun should have won

as for rothwell totally sh1t i could see him getting cut from the ufc

johnson impressed me again,i bet you he's pissed missing out on sixty grand for knockout of the night for not making weight

Johnson was very impressive.  He looked huge compared to his opponent.

Good article here about the outcome of the Main Event on Sunday and what it means for the division - http://www.mmafighting.com/news/2009/10/25/machida-rua-rematch-buys-time-ufc-light-heavyweights

Also, for what it's worth I think Shogun deserved the victory.

powerpusher

Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.

       
 
 
but its mma not muay thai. you win for winning not because you are the champ

Who said it was Muay Thai? If it was Shogun would have certainly won every round, i was given an example.

Win for winning? That doesn't even make sense, he didnt do enough to take the belt off Machida, period, and suffered for it.

The wrong decision but he could have finished him several times, he didnt and left it in the hands of the monumental **** up that is Ceil Peoples.

Dana White, has said it from day 1, and we have seen it from day 1 in the UFC, you leave it in the hands of the judges and it could go either way.

It happened with Bisping and Hamil which was even worse as there was no argument Mike took ANY round.

Toxo, 
Your getting yourself confused, the only fact that has come out of that fight is that Shogun has another L on his record and Machida is still undefeated, the opinion of some guy on the internet who things he has the right to spout so called facts, the computer break downs a la fight metric and mma math is a load of bull****, any fan who lives by that is not a fan (imo of course).

Machida's counters were clinical and clean, aggression is scored of course but also its execution, and whenever Shogun moved in, the majority of the time it was Machida who finished the conflict with a strike.

What took the absolute piss was Rogans commentary, then in the slow motion replays in-between rounds all it showed (in the first 2-3 rounds) was Machida smashing in counter/flying knees and Shogun throwing wild punches leading off some very clinical and solid leg kicks.

When Rua shot in, it was stuffed and Machida would turn him off the cage, when Rua pieced anything together after a leg kick Machida countered much more cleanly, the ONLY clear punch i saw Rua connect with was an overhand that made Machida lip bleed in the 4th i believe, I saw a side neck punch land and Rogan calling it something to the effect of a devastating hook to the head with KO power.

He didnt do enough, 3 judges saw it that way, those are the FACTS.

It’s got nothing to do with the large amount of coin i had running on 5 picks to win either.
 

kinglean

TheGunslinger


Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.

You should be a boxing judge mate.

The best man should have his hand raised at the end of a bout.

It does not matter if its a pair of novices, the worlds elite or whether there is a belt on the line.

End of debate.

 

Your right, end of debate, thanks for agreeing.


"Rua himself said he didn’t press the action in the final two rounds because his corner had told him he was in control. If that’s true, it’s that advice that cost him the fight. And it’s always the worst kind of advice to give a fighter in any match, but particularly a technical fight like Machida-Rua". 

'Shogun' has no one to blame but himself - UFC - Yahoo! Sports

so ur saying that in ur opinion, rua won the fight, but didnt do enough to take the belt??
thats BS.. if u win the fight, u win the fight. belt or no belt involved..

TheGunslinger

toxo


shogun won every round, when theres no takedowns or grappling the judges are meant to score the fight on effective striking, octagon control and agression.

shogun landed more clean shots in every round and as he was throwing thai kicks rather then karate kicks he also hit harder.

shogun controlled the octagon and was more agressive  in every round a apart for about 20 second in the 3rd, he  was more agressive in every round including the majority of the 3rd.

those are the facts, the only thing machida did effectively was stuff shoguns shots and that only landed him in the 50/50 clinch were he got knee'ed and elbowed.

Im Sorry, but ive got to take issue with this.
 
First, there is not a chance Shogun won every round, you have to remember this is Machida's belt to lose, simply going out there and throw 1-2 combinations is not going to win you the belt, especially when more often than not in rounds 1 & 2 Machida's counters were much crisper and on the money.
 
Only when Machida lost mobility in his spring did Shogun start landing anything of significance and even then i saw only one clean shot connect with Machida's face (bloodied him up) and another hit him in the neck. The rest of the damage was to the torso and legs, to try and win a belt from a champion with body/leg kicks especially when he had Machida hurt many times and did not pursue is not going to cut a clear decision in any judges mind, it could have gone either way.
 
Rogans commentary is this match was disgusting and has turned me from a moderate fan into a "hater".
 
I had to rewatch several clips multiple times to actually comprehend that Joe was not recognising any of machida's landed shots (especially a few brutal knee's) but seemingly making love to every glancing blow Rua threw, it was simply unreal.
 
Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.
 
There is a difference in all combat sports, those who have ever competed for a belt will have been told this or know it from teachings.
 
Secondly, this is not fact as you say, its a subjective opinion based on the visual, audio and kinaesthetic information your brain took from the fight; in short your brain is bias lol.
 
I really wanted Rua to win as i am Muay Thai at my roots even though i transitioned into MMA, but when the final bell rang, i can say who i thought deserved to win, but i didnt have a clue who's hand would be raised.
 
Something interesting i picked up from Machida's corner was in the 4-5th round break his coach said "you have to find his timing!!!!", meaning even at that late stage he hadn't managed to get Rua's timings down which interests me as to the naked eye his movement was traditional Muay Thai, linear with a light front leg which i thought would have been the perfect meal for the dragon, obviously not lol.
 
Rothwell was terrible, tough as hell but completely under skilled to be fighting that calibre of fighter in his first fight, reminded me of a bigger Cabbage. Brock will cripple Cain. The only guy left with a shout is Nog with his diamond chin and submission skills.
 
I see an Anderson Silva Vs Rua fight sometime next year.
 
Suddenly the UFC divisions are looking extremely weak bar a few elite fighters in each division.
 

biggest load of crock ive read so far..

If Rua won in your opinion, then he did enough to take the belt.

Those judges needed a clue. To me, it was clear as day who won the fight and that was Rua. If you read Dana's lips when he's talking to Shogun after he says ' I had to winning that fight'. The decision was a disgrace.

bmc


i like machida but his performance was sh1t shogun should have won

as for rothwell totally sh1t i could see him getting cut from the ufc

johnson impressed me again,i bet you he's pissed missing out on sixty grand for knockout of the night for not making weight

Johnson is just insane..to hear he sometimes walks at 220lbs and fights 170lb.. that is NUTS!!

TheGunslinger

powerpusher

Its a paradox imo, did Rua win? Yes. Did he do enough to take the belt? No.

      
 

but its mma not muay thai. you win for winning not because you are the champ

Win for winning? That doesn't even make sense, he didnt do enough to take the belt off Machida, period, and suffered for it.

Let me break it down for you.. you win for winning the fight... not becuase you're the champion and 'the other guy beat you but not enough to take the belt' BS

illmatic

bmc


i like machida but his performance was sh1t shogun should have won

as for rothwell totally sh1t i could see him getting cut from the ufc

johnson impressed me again,i bet you he's pissed missing out on sixty grand for knockout of the night for not making weight

Johnson is just insane..to hear he sometimes walks at 220lbs and fights 170lb.. that is NUTS!!

If that's true then wtf is he doing trying to be a welterweight? He's a middleweight. I wonder what he's scared of?

watched the fight, to the guys saying machida scored a lot of "counter strikes"

Lyoto Machida
Mauricio Rua
50/105
Total Strikes Landed/Thrown
89/155
48%
Percentage
57%
16/54
Total Arm Strikes Landed/Thrown
16/50
30%
Percentage
32%
15
Power Strikes Landed
13
1
Clinch Strikes Landed
3
34/51
Total Leg Strikes Landed/Thrown
73/105
67%
Percentage
70%
21
Kicks Landed
46
13
Knees Landed
27
0/0
Ground Strikes Landed/Thrown
0/0
0%
Percentage
0%
0/0
Takedowns/Attempts
0/3
0
Submission Attempts
0
0
Reversals
0
0
Dominant Positions
0

I think that 100% without a shadow of doubt proves Machida deserved the win.

People always argue but avoid the facts
 
EDIT ******* THE TABLE HASNT PASTED WELL AT ALL. TABLE AT LINK BELOW
 
http://www.mmaconvert.com/2009/10/26/cecil-peoples-explains-why-he-scored-the-fight-for-machida-compustrike-stats/

Ok as a statistician by profession your talking out of your arse look at it again Shogun wins on most % and had more knee strikes ok his power punches werent as high but what constitutes a power punch. I can fiddle stats to prove life on mars if i needed to. As already said a real fight fan wouldnt believe the stats. He was robbed end off

S777


watched the fight, to the guys saying machida scored a lot of "counter strikes"

Lyoto Machida
Mauricio Rua
50/105
Total Strikes Landed/Thrown
89/155
48%
Percentage
57%
16/54
Total Arm Strikes Landed/Thrown
16/50
30%
Percentage
32%
15
Power Strikes Landed
13
1
Clinch Strikes Landed
3
34/51
Total Leg Strikes Landed/Thrown
73/105
67%
Percentage
70%
21
Kicks Landed
46
13
Knees Landed
27
0/0
Ground Strikes Landed/Thrown
0/0
0%
Percentage
0%
0/0
Takedowns/Attempts
0/3
0
Submission Attempts
0
0
Reversals
0
0
Dominant Positions
0

I think that 100% without a shadow of doubt proves Machida deserved the win.

People always argue but avoid the facts
 
EDIT ******* THE TABLE HASNT PASTED WELL AT ALL. TABLE AT LINK BELOW
 
http://www.mmaconvert.com/2009/10/26/cecil-peoples-explains-why-he-scored-the-fight-for-machida-compustrike-stats/

o my god.. read it again!!! the only one which machida has over Rua is power strikes landed, and thats only by 2!!!!!!
so by goin by the table u have posted, rua should have won the fight!!
read the rest of the text on that link.. it even says that rua dominated the fight!!!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

I meant Rua deserved the win

HAHAHAHAHA

haha... phew! :-)
i thought u were goin craazy..