age of consent-varg's post

lilbigman


It's all well saying you can spot a 15 year old in a nightclub by the way they talk, or whatever, but I have friends that are 19/20 looking much younger. One is, in fact, only 5 foot and she's 18. You'd think she was a few years younger. Plus you have 20 somethings acting much younger than they are. Is it so easy to tell? I don't think so. 

Exactly

We frequently hear even on this forum that people in their 20s get ID'd for cigarettes!

Put a bunch of 15 year olds and another bunch of 20 year olds in a room, ask people to choose between them, and I guess the choosers would get it right most of the time. But all the time? No way

Maybe that would make a good experiment actually lol

look if it happened in trainspotting it can happen in real life

Aye - Mama is 28 and she gets id'd for ciggies (and booze if she buys it for me).

dazc

stephen77


But they do not have to act 18, they only have to act 16.
15 years and 360 days versus 16 years and a few days.
 
If they a passport that the home office put the wrong date of birth on by mistake. If you were 23 years old you can use ignorance as a excuse as you belived they were older. A 24 year old could not.
 

not if your trying to use the defence you thought they must be old enough as you met them in a nightclub, as your saying you thought they were 18.  if you met someone you doubted was 18, then they must be 17 or younger, i dont know about other people, but at that point you make 100% sure, if sleeping with young girls is your thing

 
If they showed you a passport with a incorrect date of birth on. As long as it say they are over 16 and you are under 24 years old. You can say you thought they were older than 16. You can use ignorance as a excuse.
Some one of 24 years old would not be able to use that excuse.
 
I am not on about myself as over 24 years old and my wife some times read this. Ignoring the legal issue she would kill me anyway.

dazc


imo noone could argue that they had no reason to question someones age.  no 15 year old ive ever met acted mature enough for an adult to presume they were 18 or over, ie old enough to be in a nightclub.  similarly, while some 15 year olds may be able to get themselfs into a nightclub,  they dont look convincingly 18 or over.  so anyone out of their teens saying they had no idea that person could possibly be underage would be talking rubbish imo.  Everyone knows the law, if someone looked or acted in their late teens you would bloody well make sure first.

and i still find it wrong that an adult would want to sleep with someone that looked so young

completly disagree with that tbh,my gf,s cousin is 13 and if i didnt know her id swear she was 18/19 shes best part of 6ft tall and she looks like a woman not a child, she could quite easily get a inocent man into alot of trouble

i dont really see that as a problem, 24 year olds shouldnt be chasing 16 year olds imo!

theITman


look if it happened in trainspotting it can happen in real life

and Tony in hollyoaks. Though the girl he slept with was in a fancy dress out fit in school uniform.
On a serious note. if it is a school uniform night were older girls are trying to make them selves look younger, it would make it harder to tell the difference.

leerc


completly disagree with that tbh,my gf,s cousin is 13 and if i didnt know her id swear she was 18/19 shes best part of 6ft tall and she looks like a woman not a child, she could quite easily get a inocent man into alot of trouble

just my personal experience mate, ive never never met anyone that age that came close to looking convincingly 18.   they probably exist but very rare im betting.
 
i still think that 30 seconds conversation would reveal that something was not as it seemed.
 
 

dazc


i dont really see that as a problem, 24 year olds shouldnt be chasing 16 year olds imo!

 
 That is legal though.
 
some times its the 16 year old chasing the older people.
 
The thread is assuming the older males are the predator rather than the other way round.
Go watch a JLS concert and younger girls will be wanting sex with older men.

dazc




just my personal experience mate, ive never never met anyone that age that came close to looking convincingly 18.   they probably exist but very rare im betting.
 
i still think that 30 seconds conversation would reveal that something was not as it seemed.
 
 

now that i agree with,she doenst act 18/19 she acts her age imo but if alchohol is involved peoples judment will be clouded somewhat imo

leerc



now that i agree with,she doenst act 18/19 she acts her age imo but if alchohol is involved peoples judment will be clouded somewhat imo

 
yeah i suppose it could be,  i would guess shes going to grow up fairly quickly as well, as she will tend to get treated like an adult not the child she is. 
 
i still think that people should be responsible, i dont think there is any defence for sleeping with someone thats  not above the age of consent.  but as per earlier posts i think age difference comes into it, 16 year old with a 15 year old is ok in my mind, but 20-odd and 15, really isnt

dazc


[
i still think that people should be responsible, i dont think there is any defence for sleeping with someone thats  not above the age of consent.  but as per earlier posts i think age difference comes into it, 16 year old with a 15 year old is ok in my mind, but 20-odd and 15, really isnt

you opinion differs from the law.
my posts have not mentioned my own opinion on the subject.
 
 

dazc

if she looks a good few years younger then imo anyone older than 20 that fancies her is a bit wrong.  just my opinion, but i cant see what any adult would see physically/sexually attractive in someone that looked 16/17.  i just think its wrong

Regardless, these laws are not in place to punish people who fancy young girls because the law feels these people are 'sick' or what have you. The laws are in place (in cases of 'statutory rape' type laws) to protect young children. Punishing the offender is a means towards that end (to deter prospective offenders?) , but we are not punishing them just because we think their sexual preferences are 'wrong'.

This could lead on a slippery slope to lock-ville so I'll be careful, but I don't think fancying a girl who looks like they're in their mid to late-teens is any different from fancying a woman in her 50s or 60s, it's just preference, and one look at any popular porn video site will tell you that there is a market for both!

CitizenKane



Regardless, these laws are not in place to punish people who fancy young girls because the law feels these people are 'sick' or what have you. The laws are in place (in cases of 'statutory rape' type laws) to protect young children. Punishing the offender is a means towards that end (to deter prospective offenders?) , but we are not punishing them just because we think their sexual preferences are 'wrong'.

This could lead on a slippery slope to lock-ville so I'll be careful, but I don't think fancying a girl who looks like they're in their mid to late-teens is any different from fancying a woman in her 50s or 60s, it's just preference, and one look at any popular porn video site will tell you that there is a market for both!

im aware that opinion and law are different, i was merely stating my opinion on whats being discussed, as we all have!  i dont expect everyone to agree with me, i can see the point others are making, but i still dont agree!
 
using the logic in your second paragraph you could argue that people having sex with children are just following their preference.  which in effect they are, so if you dont see the difference between a midteens girl and a woman, as its just personal preference, how can you argue that someone that someone attracted to younger than that is wrong?  if its all as you put it, personal preference?

dazc

CitizenKane



This could lead on a slippery slope to lock-ville so I'll be careful, but I don't think fancying a girl who looks like they're in their mid to late-teens is any different from fancying a woman in her 50s or 60s, it's just preference, and one look at any popular porn video site will tell you that there is a market for both!

 

 
using the logic in your second paragraph you could argue that people having sex with children are just following their preference.  which in effect they are, so if you dont see the difference between a midteens girl and a woman, as its just personal preference, how can you argue that someone that someone attracted to younger than that is wrong?  if its all as you put it, personal preference?

You can not help who you fancy. However you can avoid sleeping with some one who you do fancy. if that person is to young or other reasons why they can not make informed consent decisions. I think that is the significant difference between the two.

dazc

 
using the logic in your second paragraph you could argue that people having sex with children are just following their preference.  which in effect they are, so if you dont see the difference between a midteens girl and a woman, as its just personal preference, how can you argue that someone that someone attracted to younger than that is wrong?  if its all as you put it, personal preference?

Because:

If your preference is teen girls, and you have sex with an 18 year old girl, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

If your preference is mature women and you have sex with a 60 year old, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

If your preference is Asians and you have sex with a Vietnamese girl, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

BUT, if your preference is children and you have sex with a child, the consent will never be freely informed because the child is too young to have any understanding of sex and therefore does not have the capacity to consent to it. Therefore you most likely are hurting someone, namely the child!

It's about capacity to consent, and theoretically it's not limited to children either. If you have sex with a person who is suffering from a mental condition which renders them incapable of making decisions, they will not be able to consent (or otherwise) and therefore it will be seen as rape. In this latter case the law is not punishing a person because he is attracted to people with mental disabilities (as bizarre a hypothetical as that sounds), it is punishing him because he had sex with a person who did not consent (because they could not consent).

Similarly the law isn't there to punish child molesters because they are attracted to children, it's there to protect children because it is accepted that children can't consent to sexual relations and therefore sex with a child will always be non-consensual.

CitizenKane



Because:

If your preference is teen girls, and you have sex with an 18 year old girl, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

If your preference is mature women and you have sex with a 60 year old, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

If your preference is Asians and you have sex with a Vietnamese girl, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

BUT, if your preference is children and you have sex with a child, the consent will never be freely informed because the child is too young to have any understanding of sex and therefore does not have the capacity to consent to it. Therefore you most likely are hurting someone, namely the child!

It's about capacity to consent, and theoretically it's not limited to children either. If you have sex with a person who is suffering from a mental condition which renders them incapable of making decisions, they will not be able to consent (or otherwise) and therefore it will be seen as rape. In this latter case the law is not punishing a person because he is attracted to people with mental disabilities (as bizarre a hypothetical as that sounds), it is punishing him because he had sex with a person who did not consent (because they could not consent).

Similarly the law isn't there to punish child molesters because they are attracted to children, it's there to protect children because it is accepted that children can't consent to sexual relations and therefore sex with a child will always be non-consensual.

thats not what you said!  you mid teens was acceptable and no different to middle aged women.  the law says 16, but you dont agree with that.  Im sure someone that fancies children doesnt agree with the law either.
 
do you think its perfectly fine for middle aged men to sleep with 16 year old girls?  i know its legal, im asking wether you personally think its fine

dazc
 


do you think its perfectly fine for middle aged men to sleep with 16 year old girls?  i know its legal, im asking wether you personally think its fine

They are both old enough to make informed choice and it does not harm anyone else. So I can not see a issue with it.
 
Do you think its fine for a 16 year old girl to want to sleep with a middle aged man? Most women prefer older man, normally not by 20 years plus.

dazc

CitizenKane



Because:

If your preference is teen girls, and you have sex with an 18 year old girl, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

If your preference is mature women and you have sex with a 60 year old, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

If your preference is Asians and you have sex with a Vietnamese girl, you're not hurting anyone, assuming the consent was freely informed.

BUT, if your preference is children and you have sex with a child, the consent will never be freely informed because the child is too young to have any understanding of sex and therefore does not have the capacity to consent to it. Therefore you most likely are hurting someone, namely the child!

It's about capacity to consent, and theoretically it's not limited to children either. If you have sex with a person who is suffering from a mental condition which renders them incapable of making decisions, they will not be able to consent (or otherwise) and therefore it will be seen as rape. In this latter case the law is not punishing a person because he is attracted to people with mental disabilities (as bizarre a hypothetical as that sounds), it is punishing him because he had sex with a person who did not consent (because they could not consent).

Similarly the law isn't there to punish child molesters because they are attracted to children, it's there to protect children because it is accepted that children can't consent to sexual relations and therefore sex with a child will always be non-consensual.

thats not what you said!  you mid teens was acceptable and no different to middle aged women.  the law says 16, but you dont agree with that.  Im sure someone that fancies children doesnt agree with the law either.
 
do you think its perfectly fine for middle aged men to sleep with 16 year old girls?  i know its legal, im asking wether you personally think its fine

That bit in bold sounds dangerously malicious, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as perhaps coming across the wrong way...

You will notice that I have never said I agreed or disagreed with any of this. None of what I have said has anything to do with my opinion, it's merely my interpretation of the law. And I've outlined that in the previous post - the position of the law is that having sex with ANYBODY is fine as long as they consent and that consent is freely informed - but children can never consent and that is why the age of consent rule exists. As far as the law is concerned, mid-teens IS acceptable as long as the requisite consent is there.

As for the last bit, whether I think it is 'perfectly fine' or not for a middle aged man to sleep with 16 year old girls is wholly irrelevant. If he wants to, that's his business, and if she wants to as well, then I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to! Can you give a reason why they shouldn't?

dazc


i dont really see that as a problem, 24 year olds shouldnt be chasing 16 year olds imo!

They wouldn't necessarily be chasing 16yos though.
They could just be in a club and approached by someone who is 16.
You kind of assume that people are over 16 anyway if in a club, especially when the age limit is usually 18.

At 35 I am old enough to look at someone who is 16-18 and think they are too young for me.
But at 25? Not really, I went to clubs that had girls aged 18+ in and I didn't think they were too young for me.