bookies roulette

Anyone go to bookies and play these i was in local bookies today and was watching a fella play one for about 10 mins, he was playing £80 spins and at one point had £1200 that he could of collected but he carried on and by the time i left he had about 700 so dont know if he ended up winning anything . 
Have you had any big wins or losses on these? they always have a crowd round them so imagine they make the bookies quite a profit

They are referred to as the crack cocaine of the bookmakers, people just cant tear themselves away from them, Ive seen 20 after 20 get fed in. Yes you can get big wins but fukc me they swallow those notes quickly!!

These things are so fixed its untrue and should be illegal. They are not controlled by a random number generator and when its time to pay out you cannot lose on them. I have quality insider info that seems to agree.
 
In the past I have had vast experience on them and they are programed to produce 'patterns' and other methods so as to give the player the idea of a 'system' which can be followed and thus beat. When they pay out they mostly follow the system but when they are on the take it all falls apart. They are made to be addictive and also to be able to take £100 a spin off you in seconds.
 
I cannot go into figures on here regarding win lose ect ect incase the wife looked in LOL!
 
Just a glorified fruit machine at the end of the day and they make so much money they keep the bookies shops open in the days of internet gambling.

These things are so fixed its untrue and should be illegal. They are not controlled by a random number generator

 
Completely untrue. If bookies were found to be using fixed machines they'd be shut down. The machines don't need to be fixed to be turn a profit, same as casino games. The laws of probability are enough to ensure the bookie will always win in the long run.
 

In the past I have had vast experience on them and they are programed to produce 'patterns' and other methods so as to give the player the idea of a 'system' which can be followed and thus beat.

 
No, the human brain is 'programmed' to notice patterns in randomness. Players think they notice patterns and come up with convoluted systems, but the truth is it's all random. Humans suck at understanding randomness!

CheekyChappie

These things are so fixed its untrue and should be illegal. They are not controlled by a random number generator

Completely untrue. If bookies were found to be using fixed machines they'd be shut down. The machines don't need to be fixed to be turn a profit, same as casino games. The laws of probability are enough to ensure the bookie will always win in the long run.

Its true and the games are desigined just like fruit machines to offer addictive 'attractions' such as the near miss 'ball landing in the number next to yours etc', number patterns, IE 14 following number 16 at a very high % ETC ETC, just like a fruit machine program.
 
Gambling is rigged to oblivion full stop and accross the board. Some get caught and some dont and the whole thing is protected from within by the industry.
 
Dumbass 'Gamcare' leaflet anyone?? LOL

Shock horror, Ive been robbed by a machine.....
 
Where do I go ????
 
Ive been down this route so I know it well, but you can tell the people what they should do if they think they have been robbed by a rigged machine..
 
Where all ears.
 

I work in a bookies. We make exactly the 2.7% from Roulette that probability theory would say we should. IF they were rigged we could be making way more.
 
If 14 does follow 16 more than it should, someone would have latched onto it by now and be the next 'Man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo'! You yourself could be that man! Get on a machine, bet low stakes continually until a 16 comes up, then put as much as you can on 14. Do this day-in, day-out and if what you are saying is true, you can't fail to make a profit and wouldn't have to work any more.
 
Alternatively you think you have spotted a pattern which isn't there. Probably 14 followed 16 a few times in quick succession one day and you noticed this 'pattern'. From then on you remembered the times it happened again and forgot the times it didn't and your theory was reinforced. In truth, there is no way you could know whether it happens more often than it should without keeping detailed records of 000's of spins and performing a statistical test on the data.
 
As said above, if it were true I don't know why you aren't down there now making your fortune.

CheekyChappie


I work in a bookies. We make exactly the 2.7% from Roulette that probability theory would say we should. IF they were rigged we could be making way more.

If 14 does follow 16 more than it should, someone would have latched onto it by now and be the next 'Man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo'! You yourself could be that man! Get on a machine, bet low stakes continually until a 16 comes up, then put as much as you can on 14. Do this day-in, day-out and if what you are saying is true, you can't fail to make a profit and wouldn't have to work any more.

Alternatively you think you have spotted a pattern which isn't there. Probably 14 followed 16 a few times in quick succession one day and you noticed this 'pattern'. From then on you remembered the times it happened again and forgot the times it didn't and your theory was reinforced. In truth, there is no way you could know whether it happens more often than it should without keeping detailed records of 000's of spins and performing a statistical test on the data.

As said above, if it were true I don't know why you aren't down there now making your fortune.

Please pay attention!
 
As I have said, they produce patterns and offer other incentives to try and lure punters into 'thinking' they have found a pattern or behaviour system, which in relality they have but that soon changes when money is placed upon the following of these patterns. The patterns do pay out when the machine program wishes to just like a fruit machine, nobody is going to play a machine that 'never wins'. when its time to make the cut then it takes the money.
 
Just like the blackjack and all the other 'games' they are little more than a fruit machine.
 
Where did you say we go if we think we have been robbed blind out a £5000 in a day by a these machines???
 
 
 
 
 
 

The B2 fruit machine programs that show 'this machine is random' while showing '90% payout' are misleading. If its random then it cannot be held within the confines of a control system yet it clearly is to give a 90% payout or it would be illegal to state so. 
 
Then so its not 'resonable' to say its random but would anyone spend £100K in court going up against the big boys?? No.

As I have said, they produce patterns and offer other incentives to try and lure punters into 'thinking' they have found a pattern or behaviour system, which in relality they have but that soon changes when money is placed upon the following of these patterns. The patterns do pay out when the machine program wishes to just like a fruit machine, nobody is going to play a machine that 'never wins'. when its time to make the cut then it takes the money.

 
First up, what is your actual evidence for this being the case?  If it's true then I wonder why shops have days and sometimes even weeks when the machines lose money. It all seems a bit overcomplicated when a true random game would provide the same 2.7% margin that we make and people will spot patterns anyway whether they are there or not. I have to say I have never noticed any obvious patterns in the numbers, and when customers try and tell me of the patterns they have supposedly spotted they are truly laughable ("Well, you see, you got 1 then 7 came up and 1 and 7 make 8, which is next to 23, and then take 8 off 23 and that's why 15 might be next or sometimes it's 14 etc. etc.)
 
 

The B2 fruit machine programs that show 'this machine is random' while showing '90% payout' are misleading. If its random then it cannot be held within the confines of a control system yet it clearly is to give a 90% payout or it would be illegal to state so.

 
I'm sure you'd agree that a fair coin will land heads up 50% of the time (after all, that's the definition of a fair coin). Over thousands or millions of tosses, the proportion of heads will get ever closer to 50%. BUT, that doesn't mean that if you and I play a game where you bet on the outcome of each of 20 tosses that we will definitely get an outcome of 10 of each. 12 heads and 8 tails would be a perfectly reasonable outcome. Some days there would be many heads, some days few heads but over a long period of time the ratio would balance out to 50% without any 'control system' intervening to make sure it does so. This is called the 'law of large numbers' in probability theory.
 
Similarly with these games. A game that pays out 90% only guarantees to do so over a long period of time. Thus when we look at our profit/loss figures at the end of a year, such a game will prove to have paid out almost exactly 90% of what was staked on it. But looking at individual days or weeks will show large fluctuations in how the game paid out. Some weeks the game will pay out lots and we make a loss, others it pays little and we win. That's not the machine consciously 'tightening up' (as fruit machines do), that's just how randomness behaves.

CheekyChappie

As I have said, they produce patterns and offer other incentives to try and lure punters into 'thinking' they have found a pattern or behaviour system, which in relality they have but that soon changes when money is placed upon the following of these patterns. The patterns do pay out when the machine program wishes to just like a fruit machine, nobody is going to play a machine that 'never wins'. when its time to make the cut then it takes the money.

First up, what is your actual evidence for this being the case?  If it's true then I wonder why shops have days and sometimes even weeks when the machines lose money. It all seems a bit overcomplicated when a true random game would provide the same 2.7% margin that we make and people will spot patterns anyway whether they are there or not. I have to say I have never noticed any obvious patterns in the numbers, and when customers try and tell me of the patterns they have supposedly spotted they are truly laughable ("Well, you see, you got 1 then 7 came up and 1 and 7 make 8, which is next to 23, and then take 8 off 23 and that's why 15 might be next or sometimes it's 14 etc. etc.)

Your proof is??
 

CheekyChappie

The B2 fruit machine programs that show 'this machine is random' while showing '90% payout' are misleading. If its random then it cannot be held within the confines of a control system yet it clearly is to give a 90% payout or it would be illegal to state so.

I'm sure you'd agree that a fair coin will land heads up 50% of the time (after all, that's the definition of a fair coin). Over thousands or millions of tosses, the proportion of heads will get ever closer to 50%. BUT, that doesn't mean that if you and I play a game where you bet on the outcome of each of 20 tosses that we will definitely get an outcome of 10 of each. 12 heads and 8 tails would be a perfectly reasonable outcome. Some days there would be many heads, some days few heads but over a long period of time the ratio would balance out to 50% without any 'control system' intervening to make sure it does so. This is called the 'law of large numbers' in probability theory.

Similarly with these games. A game that pays out 90% only guarantees to do so over a long period of time. Thus when we look at our profit/loss figures at the end of a year, such a game will prove to have paid out almost exactly 90% of what was staked on it. But looking at individual days or weeks will show large fluctuations in how the game paid out. Some weeks the game will pay out lots and we make a loss, others it pays little and we win. That's not the machine consciously 'tightening up' (as fruit machines do), that's just how randomness behaves.

You cannot have a guarantee of randomness and then put a figure on it as its misleading, it simply cannot be. If the result is 90% over 1 year it could change in the very next years.
 
Once again, where do we go if we feel we have been robbed blind out of £5000 in a day by a rigged machine??
 
lets put the 'honesty' check into perspective.....

My proof of what?

Once again, where do we go if we feel we have been robbed blind out of £5000 in a day by a rigged machine??

 
The Gambling Commission. It's their role to make sure gambling is Fair and Open and part of that is ensuring that games are random.

CheekyChappie

Once again, where do we go if we feel we have been robbed blind out of £5000 in a day by a rigged machine??

The Gambling Commission. It's their role to make sure gambling is Fair and Open and part of that is ensuring that games are random.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!
 
We both know the industry and TBH Im shocked you have said that.
 
Its a bit like saying the Police are responsible for making sure illegal drugs are not sold on the street, (but at least the Police try).
 
 

CheekyChappie


My proof of what?

I have no evidence of patterns?, what proof do you have they dont produce patterns.

I know there is corruption in Horse Racing, Greyhound Racing and some sports. I don't see evidence of, or the need for, gaming machines to be fixed.
 
There is a big push at the moment in our firm to try and 'migrate' players onto higher margin games. If they were fixed it wouldn;t matter what games they played, the machines could just tighten up when necessary to deliver the profit. But our job, as an example, is to get people off the 2.7% roulette and encourage them to try the 5.4% roulette;not because it's fixed but because, on average, people will lose their money twice as fast, freeing up the machine for someone else to play.

I'm saying 'no patterns' is the null hypothesis here. We say they're not fixed, the Gambling Commission agree, mathematical probability says random machines will produce the profit nicely with no need of fixing. I would imagine the onus is on you to say what your reason for doubting all of this is, apart from just a penchant for conspiracy theories.

Good debating this with you mate as its a subject of big interest to me. I know you know this industry well.
 
Im knackered and off to bed so will check back tomorrow :)
 
Bill Hills are the worst though LOL!