cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?!

Very old chestnut this one.

The fact is - we dont know the maximum amount of whey that can be absorbed post workout.
We do know that absorbtive capacity will change with exposure - that means the more whey you have the more you will be able to utilise - if you go from none to 100g pwo you are going to lose a lot down the loo ... however this does not mean that there is no one who cant utilise 100g pwo - there could be.

Secondly whey would not necessarily be oxidised to waste - in fact whey is absorbed as amino acids, they travel to the liver - and here their fate is decided - whey also elicits an insulin response - which means that what happens in the liver is rather important.

Whey has two possible destinations - it can become amino acids that go to the liver and are utilised as protein building blocks as per the body's needs or they can be made in to glucose and sent as an energy source.

now the whey it works is - if your body doesnt need the protein building blocks, or there is a shortage of energy - then the liver will choose glycogen first.
however, if there is a need for protein and sufficient energy aminos will be utilised as aminos.

Thats the first part of the pwo question to consider when evaluating this statement

Secondly there is absorbtive capacity - which I said can change over time, that is the body can become more efficient at processing a certain food with repeated exposure - so a new user to whey will lose a lot more down the loo than someone with years of use.

So add in all the variables and you cannot even begin to presume that 25g is the limit.
the whole max capacity thing started with Scott Connoly at MetRx anyway - and it was 99% justification for not putting more than 25g whey in their product when other suppliers did and MetRx started losing market share.

Nothing replaces hard work and a tailored diet! Most huge people don't even know how they got huge. They are just genetically blessed. Genetic garbage like me has to work damn hard for every gramm of muscle. Take Jay Cutler, have you seen him at 19? Unbelievable, he was damn big back then. He is an intelligent guy though and recognized his potential. When I started working out 19 years ago I weighed 68kg. My highest weight was 102kg, but I carried some fat. Right now I weigh 89kg at less than 6% body fat, I'm 5.8 by the way. Since I jacked up my protein intake drastically and included some cardio I became lean and strong. I'm now stronger than I was when I weight 102kg, although I really don't care much about the weights I lift. I just wanna look good :-) Deadlift last week 225kg for 4 reps, all I can do... Intend to compete in Exeter next year, there is a NABBA show in April.... let's see how it goes!

Big Les
 


Whey has two possible destinations - it can become amino acids that go to the liver and are utilised as protein building blocks as per the body's needs or they can be made in to glucose and sent as an energy source.

now the whey it works is - if your body doesnt need the protein building blocks, or there is a shortage of energy - then the liver will choose glycogen first.
however, if there is a need for protein and sufficient energy aminos will be utilised as aminos.

For this reason is it best to have a carb source PWO before whey so the whey can be used as protein building blocks? Or is dextrose etc. in the whey suitable enough?

Both together does the trick very well - splitting the timing does not add anything at all.
and in fact may even take away - evidence is that together there is a synergistic effect to enhance replenishment pwo!

KK knows his stuff and i recently met him on a seminar and asked him this question.He said the blends as in MR and Peptide, you can have 40-50g because its time released proteins.
He actually said he doesnt rate whey and only sold it because of huge demand, he said stick to a blend as in peptide, because whey is to fast and you end up toileting most away, although it is excellent pwo with fast carbs.

KK - is entitled to his opinion on this - and there is nothing wrong with what he is saying.

However there are other successful schools of thought when it comes to protein supplementation - Chad Nicholls - now he has a resume to be envious of, for example is a proponent of whey on its own - and isolate at that.

The fact is: and I mean fact: 25g of whey is not the limit  - we dont know the limit.
There are too many variables.
What we do know is what I have said.

Honestly this is all bullcrap anyways - each type of protein delivery method has a merit and a rationale: and many ways have been shown effective.

The point is you fit in your whey and protein supplementation within a diet structure to suit you as an individual - where the people who are good at giving nutrition advice excel is in putting it all together for you and how you work, you train, you recover, how your body reacts.

Interesting,

wandering then maybe I should stop having 50g whey at a time, apart from PWO... perhaps 25g a time is enough generally, suppose its trial and error

will too much whey get lost down the loo, surely not unless your digestive tract is irritated by the whey and you end up with the runs?

cliff - if you have more whey than your absorbtive capacity at one sitting it is wasted.
often you can tell who is doing this in the gym by the smell!

However, this is easily avoided with quality products taken appropriately.

I consume 100g or there abouts in any shake I have, I don't give a damn, gain well.