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dianabol and gyno

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griff2k
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2012/01/05 12:31:41 (permalink)

dianabol and gyno

im thinking about doin a dianabol cycle at 40mg a day for 7 weeks,and for pct im going to use nolva and clomid, but ive had gyno from a young age an should i run nolva  or adex  evry day to provent it getting worse, 
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    lawrence 82
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 12:36:37 (permalink)
    nolva is better option than adex as adex lowers your oestrogen level , dbol needs oestrogen for best results, hence the water retention.
    #2
    freddo
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 13:39:14 (permalink)
    second that.
    #3
    Foreman
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 14:18:57 (permalink)
    Nolva 20mg ed, will help....

    EPO 4000iu
    - Iron 20mg
    - Folic Acid 800mcg
    - Vit B12 2500mcg
    CJC-DAC 2mg
    Test E 100mg
    T3 50mcg
    #4
    PartyBoy
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 14:20:01 (permalink)
    First line of attack should always be an AI.
     
    AI's will not block all estrogen conversion, plenty will still be available for the role played by estrogen in anabolism.
     
    Nolva/SERM as a secondary backup.

     
    #5
    Foreman
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 14:37:46 (permalink)
    Something like ATD maybe?

    EPO 4000iu
    - Iron 20mg
    - Folic Acid 800mcg
    - Vit B12 2500mcg
    CJC-DAC 2mg
    Test E 100mg
    T3 50mcg
    #6
    Sawdust
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 15:03:02 (permalink)
    Ai's arentparticularly effective on a dianabol cycle due to the aggresive conversion of whatever the hell that thing is called, somethingestradiol or other... science never was my strong point. You need quite high doses of AI for them to be effective which is counter productive due to the effects of dianabol being something like 80% oestrogen based in some way.

    So basically don't fvck about, run nolva... AI should usually be your first port of call but with oxys and dianabol it's a good idea to just run nolva or even nolva AND your usual AI if running other compounds.

    Nolva is your friend, block the site and you block the oestrogen binding to it, job done. 
    post edited by Sawdust - 2012/01/05 15:04:36

    http://www.ugm.org.uk 
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    #7
    PartyBoy
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 18:06:57 (permalink)
    Sawdust, dianabol converts to a lesser degree than testosterone. AI's are just an agonist of the enzyme responsible for conversion - this is a completely separate issue regardless of what steroids may or may not be present in the user. If the enzyme is 'taken out' by the AI (to whatever degree), then conversion will not happen (read: happen to a much lesser degree), be that to testosterone, dianabol, or deca.
     

     
    post edited by PartyBoy - 2012/01/05 18:09:05

     
    #8
    #Hench
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 18:29:07 (permalink)
    if you have gyno dbol would be the last thing on my list.
    #9
    Sawdust
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 18:56:32 (permalink)
    true say PB, i need to refresh my mind, hold on... i probably didnt get my point across right anyway.

    Right, dbol converts to methylestradiol which has something like a 30%  higher affinity for binding to breast tissue receptors so for an AI to be effective you need to take a lot more to get the desired effect don't you.

    Then consider than most of dianabols anabolic activity stems from oestrogen you're pretty much sabotaging the gains to some extent by using an AI, Plus there's no guarantee unless you dose well with AI that it will even prevent gyno in the case of dianabol as you've still got the conversion of dbol into methylestradiol and the higher binding affinity.

    Basically that's why i'm thinking that nolva is the best option here? your blocking the receptors in the breast tissue thus making it impossible for any oestrogen to bind there and greatly lowering the chances of getting gyno? Prevention > Cure


    Anyway, i barely understand what i've just written, what are your thoughts mate?

    cheers
    post edited by Sawdust - 2012/01/05 18:58:11

    http://www.ugm.org.uk 
    Another interesting place!

    #10
    PartyBoy
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 19:29:09 (permalink)
    Sawdust

    so for an AI to be effective you need to take a lot more to get the desired effect don't you.

     
    No, there is a steep diminishing return curve to AI use, akin to that of steroids (ie, it is not linear).
     
     
    Then consider than most of dianabols anabolic activity stems from oestrogen

     
    No, most of the anabolism stems from AR binding, increased rate of PS, though estrogen is important for glucose util, and normal levels of other hormones such as hgh/igf.
     
    you're pretty much sabotaging the gains to some extent by using an AI

     
    Not at all. There is the possibility of slightly reduced gains (muscle - not talking about water/fat) due to potential over suppression of estrogen, but this is no different from suppressing the effects of estrogen through other means such as Nolva. 
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8501143
     
     

    Plus there's no guarantee unless you dose well with AI that it will even prevent gyno in the case of dianabol as you've still got the conversion of dbol into methylestradiol

     
    That's right, no guarantees, that's why I said it's the first line. Nolva should be held as a backup for those individuals who still encounter warning signs of problems
     
     
    Basically that's why i'm thinking that nolva is the best option here? your blocking the receptors in the breast tissue thus making it impossible for any oestrogen to bind there and greatly lowering the chances of getting gyno?

     
    No mate. ER are not limited to breast tissue.  You can't hope that nolva targets breast receptors only, just as we as bbers cannot expect steroids not to target the AR located within the heart muscle!



     
    #11
    Sawdust
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 19:42:06 (permalink)
    I see, basically no guarantees then!

    Thanks mate, that's helped cleared up a few points in my head,

    I've never ran Dbol alone personally but usually opt for nolva alongside aromasin anyway, actually thinking about it i managed on nolva alone first time around, anyway, so far, touch wood it's worked for me, So am i right in thinking that in the case of all that you've mentioned, the best bet for maximum protection would be to cover all the bases with both? Then obviously the common sense approach as you mentioned, run the AI and nolva on hand if the sh1t hits the fan?
    post edited by Sawdust - 2012/01/05 19:45:55

    http://www.ugm.org.uk 
    Another interesting place!

    #12
    PartyBoy
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 19:46:07 (permalink)
    Yes, if particularly prone. But as you've described above, an element of estrogen is important, so if some can get away without any form of 'anti-e', then they should.

     
    #13
    Sawdust
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/05 19:50:36 (permalink)
    Thanks for clearing that one up mate, always had it drilled into me to just go with nolva with dbol and never really questioned it, although if its worked i guess its alright, I also always said science confuses the hell out of me!

    Cleared up nicely, cheers mate.

    Every day's a training day! 
     

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    #14
    Bigfella
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/06 09:56:06 (permalink)
    Personally I do not believe in using AI's to prevent estrogen conversion unless it is necessary, so any cycle that only leads to elevated estrogen levels  without the added issue of progesterone, I would always go with a SERM to protect against gyno only.
    I would only consider use of an AI if excess water retention became an issue and could not be controlled adequately by other means or if the cycle also contained Tren or Deca as well.
     
    Bigfella.
    #15
    griff2k
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/06 18:13:30 (permalink)
    cheers for the info guys,really good info there,its interesting because some  other sites ive researched say use adex only.an somone mentioned they wouldnt use dianabol if gyno prone, what oral would you use? im still considering goin with the dianabol and and the nolva and see how it goes,
    #16
    PartyBoy
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/07 07:57:23 (permalink)
    Look at Turanabol

     
    #17
    griff2k
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/07 10:53:21 (permalink)
     been looking at anavar, 6 weeks cycle, and no pct recuired and wount afect gyno at all
    #18
    Sawdust
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/07 10:56:53 (permalink)
    You should still be running a pct after anavar mate, you might as well for what it costs. As var will still shut down your natural production

    http://www.ugm.org.uk 
    Another interesting place!

    #19
    cush007
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    Re:dianabol and gyno 2012/01/07 19:08:36 (permalink)
    0.5mg adex and 20mg nolva a day if gyno flares workjed on gettin rid of my small lumps last cycle
    #20
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