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 how long should me run be


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petemuscle

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how long should me run be 29 January 2012 18:57 (permalink)
 how long should my morning run be so i c ( in time) so i can loss body fat and not muscle?
 
#1
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    JWR

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    Re:how long should me run be 29 January 2012 19:09 (permalink)
    All depends on protocols you're following.
     
    Id opt for low intensity on an empty stomach in the am if I was:
     
    A) Taking the low carb route
    B) Doing Intermittent fasting
    C) Doing a high volume routine at another time of the day
     
    I'd opt for intervals at all other times followed by some steady state cardio afterwards.
     
    #2
      Pastafarian

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      Re:how long should me run be 29 January 2012 19:35 (permalink)
      Till you arrive at your destination.


      Imho hill in it a mile no hills two miles.
      Everyone has been in shape,but not everyone is IN shape,its about where your going not where you have been.
       
      #3
        Suspirio

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        Re:how long should me run be 29 January 2012 20:19 (permalink)
        Just jog for 30 to 40 minutes. You should be sweating but your breathing should not be laboured.

         
        #4
          invictused

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          Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 11:21 (permalink)
          I see a SSCV vs. HIIT debate incoming
           
          HIIT
           
          #5
            CheekyChappie

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            Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 11:27 (permalink)
            Whatever allows you to burn the most calories, so probably not HIIT.
             
            #6
              invictused

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              Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 11:33 (permalink)
              CheekyChappie


              Whatever allows you to burn the most calories, so probably not HIIT.

               
              Really?!
               
               
               
              #7
                CheekyChappie

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                Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 11:43 (permalink)
                invictused


                CheekyChappie


                Whatever allows you to burn the most calories, so probably not HIIT.


                Really?!



                 
                Yeah, really!
                 
                I know you're about to pull out the EPOC argument on me. All I will say is if HIIT is being done properly i.e.with sufficient intensity then it can't be sustained for very long, thus the calorie burn is limited. Even with the added EPOC effect (which is not as much as most people think) it won't burn near the number of calories that a 30-45min moderate paced jog would.
                 
                #8
                  invictused

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                  Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 12:14 (permalink)
                  40 min moderate jog, but would it be fair to say a 20 minute HIIT session at maximum effort would require at least twice the effort, therefore twice the energy expenditure with the added bonus of EPOC?
                   
                  #9
                    CheekyChappie

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                    Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 12:48 (permalink)

                    40 min moderate jog, but would it be fair to say a 20 minute HIIT session at maximum effort would require at least twice the effort, therefore twice the energy expenditure with the added bonus of EPOC?

                     
                    But effort doesn't directly equate to calories burnt. Imagine sprinting as fast as you can until you drop through exhaustion. You would be done in under a minute. Maximum effort but only 30-40 calories burned tops. Because you could only keep it going for 1 minute!
                     
                    In a HIIT session, of that 20 mins most of it is spent at a moderate speed with only maybe 5 minutes total spent at the fast speed. A high rate of calorie burn during those 5 minutes, yes, but there's only so many calories you can burn in 5 minutes! Let's say you burn 10 cals per min in the easy intervals and 20 cals per min in the hard intervals. At the end you'll have burnt 250 cals, only 50 more than if you just stayed at the slow speed throughout. I'll give you 50 cals for EPOC and you're looking at 300 total cals. Now a 40 min jog burning, say, 12 cals per min you've burned 480 cals.
                     
                    Intense, yes, because of the hard intervals taking you above your anaerobic threshold and pushing your muscles, heart and lungs hard and great for fitness. But the hard parts aren't sustained long enough to make a massive difference to calorie burn.
                     
                    I should say that I think the ideal programme would include HIIT and longer slower stuff both for variety and to train different aspects of aerobic and anaerobic fitness. But I think people are misled into thinking they have to do HIIT all the time because it's "better for fat loss" when it isn't. And frankly it's bloody hard and most people can't sustain it on a regular basis.
                    <message edited by CheekyChappie on 30 January 2012 12:52>
                     
                    #10
                      sillynarbie

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                      Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 15:00 (permalink)
                      CheekyChappie


                      invictused


                      CheekyChappie


                      Whatever allows you to burn the most calories, so probably not HIIT.


                      Really?!




                      Yeah, really!

                      I know you're about to pull out the EPOC argument on me. All I will say is if HIIT is being done properly i.e.with sufficient intensity then it can't be sustained for very long, thus the calorie burn is limited. Even with the added EPOC effect (which is not as much as most people think) it won't burn near the number of calories that a 30-45min moderate paced jog would.

                      You know cardio does a whole load of **** that isn't desirable for fat loss though, right? Such as, increases oxidative stress, reduces muscle protein synthesis amongst others. 
                       
                      If you want to lose weight, then a nice steady-state 45 minute cardio session is probably great. If you want to lose fat, probably not. I know many natural bodybuilders who don't do any cardio whatsoever when preparing for a show, simply reducing rest periods and increasing volume during weight-training is enough. 
                       
                      #11
                        sillynarbie

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                        Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 15:03 (permalink)
                        CheekyChappie



                        40 min moderate jog, but would it be fair to say a 20 minute HIIT session at maximum effort would require at least twice the effort, therefore twice the energy expenditure with the added bonus of EPOC?


                        But effort doesn't directly equate to calories burnt. Imagine sprinting as fast as you can until you drop through exhaustion. You would be done in under a minute. Maximum effort but only 30-40 calories burned tops. Because you could only keep it going for 1 minute!

                        In a HIIT session, of that 20 mins most of it is spent at a moderate speed with only maybe 5 minutes total spent at the fast speed. A high rate of calorie burn during those 5 minutes, yes, but there's only so many calories you can burn in 5 minutes! Let's say you burn 10 cals per min in the easy intervals and 20 cals per min in the hard intervals. At the end you'll have burnt 250 cals, only 50 more than if you just stayed at the slow speed throughout. I'll give you 50 cals for EPOC and you're looking at 300 total cals. Now a 40 min jog burning, say, 12 cals per min you've burned 480 cals.

                        Intense, yes, because of the hard intervals taking you above your anaerobic threshold and pushing your muscles, heart and lungs hard and great for fitness. But the hard parts aren't sustained long enough to make a massive difference to calorie burn.

                        I should say that I think the ideal programme would include HIIT and longer slower stuff both for variety and to train different aspects of aerobic and anaerobic fitness. But I think people are misled into thinking they have to do HIIT all the time because it's "better for fat loss" when it isn't. And frankly it's bloody hard and most people can't sustain it on a regular basis.

                         
                        Check my post above. The reason HIIT is preferable is because it mimics the metabolic effects you get from weight training, which in the long run is better for fat-loss. If you want to do cardio then low-intensity stuff (100BPM) for longer periods (1-2 hours) seems more sensible for fat-loss. 
                         
                        #12
                          CheekyChappie

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                          Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 15:13 (permalink)
                          I think what you are saying is relevant to people who are already lean and dieting for a show. For the average overweight Joe I would still say (in my best John Virgo voice) "Burn as many calories as you can"
                           
                          #13
                            Paracelsus

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                            Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 21:36 (permalink)
                            sillynarbie

                            Check my post above. The reason HIIT is preferable is because it mimics the metabolic effects you get from weight training, which in the long run is better for fat-loss.

                             
                            But it's not though. Weightlifting has been shown to do naff all for fat loss (esp visceral) compared to aerobic exercise.
                             
                            I've lent the mag away and have no bookmark but the issue-before-last of Muscular Development referenced a good study on it
                             
                            #14
                              Suspirio

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                              Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 21:50 (permalink)
                              HIIT = Conditioning
                               
                              SSCV = Fat loss
                               
                              IMO and IME

                               
                              #15
                                master plan

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                                Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 22:29 (permalink)
                                But would you ever recommend doing HIIT first thing in the morning on an empty stomach?

                                 
                                #16
                                  CheekyChappie

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                                  Re:how long should me run be 30 January 2012 23:02 (permalink)
                                  No, you need to have available carbohydrate to do HIIT.
                                   
                                  #17
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