cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?!

cnp tell consumers of its cnp whey not to take more than 25g (20g of actual protein) as it says anymore whey of whey will be a waste as it will be oxidised too quick by the body thus it ll either be wasted or deposited as fast since the body doesnt have enough time to assemble the amino acids. but i have always aimed for protein shakes with 50g of protein 2 scoops double thats recomended on pharma whey or express whey as i find the amound in the recomended 1 scoop to low,what do u guys think i mean cnp r a respectaple company and probably know thier stuff but wanted to hear ur opinions regarding this.

I agree and also think its too much a time.

Weight: 175 lbs
Height: 6 Ft
Body Fat: 15.8% (Cutting) 
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Read this the other day which is quite interesting...

http://www.buildingmusc...ein-absorbed-at-one-time

** NEWBIE JOURNAL **

*rolls eyes*

same old threads, just a different day

I do a lot of push ups and sit ups. And I drink plenty of milk.

Put peanut butter in to slow the absorption of the whey, or any other good fats for that matter.

Your PWO shake is just to stop the catabolic process. Your PWO meal is what starts the rebuilding. Simple as that.

MikeS


Your PWO shake is just to stop the catabolic process. Your PWO meal is what starts the rebuilding. Simple as that.

Not really, but that's not the point.
 
Logically there will be a minimum amount of protein that would result in max increase in protein balance over a set period of time. For many it may be 25g.
 
All you need to do is investigate the subject population used in the study/studies that suggested 25g was the mean figure that resulted in the max rate of protien balance over the set period in the study. While your at it you'll need to critque the method in the study too.  If you happy after this then take no more than 25g per meal. But off course you'll need to have enough time between each feed to alemiate the refactory period in protein balance (after raised circulatory amino acids have rasie it). Some suggest 5 hours is optimal. Once you have that sorted, check your consumption against the 2g/kg bw that is meant to be the rough guidline for daily protein consumption in restistance trained indviduals as suggested by Lemon among others.
 
Easy really :)
 
Ohh and good luck if your 300lbs and think 25g will do the job :)

Stonehenge
 
Where the banshees live and they do live well

Applos for spelling. Its bad at the best of times but Pimms and beer dosn't improve it :)

Stonehenge
 
Where the banshees live and they do live well

iaink

MikeS


Your PWO shake is just to stop the catabolic process. Your PWO meal is what starts the rebuilding. Simple as that.

Not really, but that's not the point.
 
Logically there will be a minimum amount of protein that would result in max increase in protein balance over a set period of time. For many it may be 25g.
 
All you need to do is investigate the subject population used in the study/studies that suggested 25g was the mean figure that resulted in the max rate of protien balance over the set period in the study. While your at it you'll need to critque the method in the study too.  If you happy after this then take no more than 25g per meal. But off course you'll need to have enough time between each feed to alemiate the refactory period in protein balance (after raised circulatory amino acids have rasie it). Some suggest 5 hours is optimal. Once you have that sorted, check your consumption against the 2g/kg bw that is meant to be the rough guidline for daily protein consumption in restistance trained indviduals as suggested by Lemon among others.
 
Easy really :)
 
Ohh and good luck if your 300lbs and think 25g will do the job :)

Since the guy that asked the original question doesnt know how much whey to take PWO, I very much doubt he is any where near 300lbs. Any dumbnuts knows the more muscle you carry the more protein you need. So for most around the 25g mark is sufficient imo. On the basis that 40-60mins later you'll be eating a hefty balanced meal.

The exact amount of whey you need PWO is irrelevant really. Train hard, eat well and rest. No need to over complicate things.

There are countless studies out there... I don't know any big bodybuilder that eats only 25g of protein per meal... You will never achieve anything this way! Most people I know (me included) shoot for 2.5 -3 g protein per kg body weight! I eat every day roughly 300g of protein. I started that about 2 years ago... guess what. I've become a lot leaner and stronger than I ever was. A little more protein does not matter, your body will use it as energy. Having said this, of course you have to take your calorie intake etc into consideration. Took me a while to find the right balance. Just talk to competitive bodybuilders...

We become what we think about!

lol Mike. Thats my point! Don't over complicate things!

Stonehenge
 
Where the banshees live and they do live well

iaink


Applos for spelling. Its bad at the best of times but Pimms and beer dosn't improve it :)

I cannot imagine you sitting drinking pimms - the facial hair surely clashes

Awesome pic, but Tony you're not doing yourself many favours posting up tips on preventing the gag reflex and then a picture of a guy touching his toes - Ak

We just fancied a jug with our mexican meal. Had a beer first and after off course.

Stonehenge
 
Where the banshees live and they do live well

I've seen big gym guys that don't have much more protein than a regular eater. Now, they may have got to their size in half the time; if they amped up the protein, but you can still grow on lower protein consumption

surely there are a lot of factors involved in affecting how much is digested and used, I don't think there is a 25g that is applicable to everyone, similarly as there isn't really such thing as an average height or average man

When I reduced my protein intake from 2 large scoops down to just one large scoop I got leaner and still built some lean muscle. So Ive kept it there for now.

Generally I eat real food. I mix power usually with my oats and have an evening shake. Everybody reacts differently anyway. Most of the huge guys don't even really know how thay got that big - it's their genetics. I have to works real had for every gramm of muscle! Reducing my protein intake i.e. did not work for me at all. I've been training for nearly 20 years, not much I have not tried. Suffice it to say it also depends on your supplementation... Train hard, eat well ( count your food!!) get sufficient rest and set yourself some specific goals!

We become what we think about!

The problem on this forum, is everybody assumes the people here want to be massive bodybuilders.

I certainly don't, but I want to build some muscle yes.

Weight: 175 lbs
Height: 6 Ft
Body Fat: 15.8% (Cutting) 
Journal (New & improved 115KG Bench!)  
  

whether you want to be huge or not, the muscle building process is still the same. if you wanna grow muscle, bodybuilding is the way to go, just stop when you get to the size you wanna be, but follow a bodybuilding routine to get there n youll save yourself some time.

on topic, personally, i reckon 1.4g protein per pound BW is about right through out the day, with about 40g comming from pre and 40 from post workout shakes, OR, 20 pre, 20g mid workout bar, and then 40 from post work out shake.

both work well for me, but i progessed quicker using a smaller pre workout shake and a mid workout protein intake.

Brilliant. It depends on your weight.

Someone who weighs 7 stone still gets the same advice....'you need about 300g of protein a day mate'

Thats the sort of thing I've read on here time and time again anyway :)

I've got 2 uncles, now in their fifties who are very well built. Never took sups, never spread out their meals 6 times day, never ate before bed etc ect. When I asked how they ever managed to bench 140KG, they just replied 'Ate when hungry and trained hard'.

I agree with other posts, this is always way over complicated.

Weight: 175 lbs
Height: 6 Ft
Body Fat: 15.8% (Cutting) 
Journal (New & improved 115KG Bench!)  
  

Very old chestnut this one.

The fact is - we dont know the maximum amount of whey that can be absorbed post workout.
We do know that absorbtive capacity will change with exposure - that means the more whey you have the more you will be able to utilise - if you go from none to 100g pwo you are going to lose a lot down the loo ... however this does not mean that there is no one who cant utilise 100g pwo - there could be.

Secondly whey would not necessarily be oxidised to waste - in fact whey is absorbed as amino acids, they travel to the liver - and here their fate is decided - whey also elicits an insulin response - which means that what happens in the liver is rather important.

Whey has two possible destinations - it can become amino acids that go to the liver and are utilised as protein building blocks as per the body's needs or they can be made in to glucose and sent as an energy source.

now the whey it works is - if your body doesnt need the protein building blocks, or there is a shortage of energy - then the liver will choose glycogen first.
however, if there is a need for protein and sufficient energy aminos will be utilised as aminos.

Thats the first part of the pwo question to consider when evaluating this statement

Secondly there is absorbtive capacity - which I said can change over time, that is the body can become more efficient at processing a certain food with repeated exposure - so a new user to whey will lose a lot more down the loo than someone with years of use.

So add in all the variables and you cannot even begin to presume that 25g is the limit.
the whole max capacity thing started with Scott Connoly at MetRx anyway - and it was 99% justification for not putting more than 25g whey in their product when other suppliers did and MetRx started losing market share.

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Les Willis: Nutrition Consultant, Healthy Action.
31st March 2012 @ 2:30 Andy Bolton Seminar.

Nothing replaces hard work and a tailored diet! Most huge people don't even know how they got huge. They are just genetically blessed. Genetic garbage like me has to work damn hard for every gramm of muscle. Take Jay Cutler, have you seen him at 19? Unbelievable, he was damn big back then. He is an intelligent guy though and recognized his potential. When I started working out 19 years ago I weighed 68kg. My highest weight was 102kg, but I carried some fat. Right now I weigh 89kg at less than 6% body fat, I'm 5.8 by the way. Since I jacked up my protein intake drastically and included some cardio I became lean and strong. I'm now stronger than I was when I weight 102kg, although I really don't care much about the weights I lift. I just wanna look good :-) Deadlift last week 225kg for 4 reps, all I can do... Intend to compete in Exeter next year, there is a NABBA show in April.... let's see how it goes!

We become what we think about!

Big Les
 


Whey has two possible destinations - it can become amino acids that go to the liver and are utilised as protein building blocks as per the body's needs or they can be made in to glucose and sent as an energy source.

now the whey it works is - if your body doesnt need the protein building blocks, or there is a shortage of energy - then the liver will choose glycogen first.
however, if there is a need for protein and sufficient energy aminos will be utilised as aminos.

For this reason is it best to have a carb source PWO before whey so the whey can be used as protein building blocks? Or is dextrose etc. in the whey suitable enough?

Both together does the trick very well - splitting the timing does not add anything at all.
and in fact may even take away - evidence is that together there is a synergistic effect to enhance replenishment pwo!

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Les Willis: Nutrition Consultant, Healthy Action.
31st March 2012 @ 2:30 Andy Bolton Seminar.

KK knows his stuff and i recently met him on a seminar and asked him this question.He said the blends as in MR and Peptide, you can have 40-50g because its time released proteins.
He actually said he doesnt rate whey and only sold it because of huge demand, he said stick to a blend as in peptide, because whey is to fast and you end up toileting most away, although it is excellent pwo with fast carbs.

KK - is entitled to his opinion on this - and there is nothing wrong with what he is saying.

However there are other successful schools of thought when it comes to protein supplementation - Chad Nicholls - now he has a resume to be envious of, for example is a proponent of whey on its own - and isolate at that.

The fact is: and I mean fact: 25g of whey is not the limit  - we dont know the limit.
There are too many variables.
What we do know is what I have said.

Honestly this is all bullcrap anyways - each type of protein delivery method has a merit and a rationale: and many ways have been shown effective.

The point is you fit in your whey and protein supplementation within a diet structure to suit you as an individual - where the people who are good at giving nutrition advice excel is in putting it all together for you and how you work, you train, you recover, how your body reacts.

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Les Willis: Nutrition Consultant, Healthy Action.
31st March 2012 @ 2:30 Andy Bolton Seminar.

Interesting,

wandering then maybe I should stop having 50g whey at a time, apart from PWO... perhaps 25g a time is enough generally, suppose its trial and error

 


 

will too much whey get lost down the loo, surely not unless your digestive tract is irritated by the whey and you end up with the runs?

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cliff - if you have more whey than your absorbtive capacity at one sitting it is wasted.
often you can tell who is doing this in the gym by the smell!

However, this is easily avoided with quality products taken appropriately.

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Les Willis: Nutrition Consultant, Healthy Action.
31st March 2012 @ 2:30 Andy Bolton Seminar.

I consume 100g or there abouts in any shake I have, I don't give a damn, gain well.

Squat: 363kg

Bench: 195kg

Deadlift: 300kg

@ (currently 114kg)

...soon to be obliterated!