Some questions on Dead Lifting

Apologies if this should have been in a training forum, but I thought I'd perhaps get more of a response in Gen.
 
Whilst I've been training 10+ years, deadlifting has never been part of my regime. However I have recently started a new training plan which includes deads and I have to say I absolutely love them. The plan requires me to do sets of 1x10, 1x8, and 3x6. I've now been at it for around three weeks and for the 3x6 I'm lifting 120K which seems quite puny when I look at some of the vids posted on here, and some of the weights posted in peoples profiles (although obviously people like Tony have been training for this kind of exercise more than me and are quite a bit bigger, so to be largley expected insome cases). Whilst I couldn't now, its not too many years ago that I was comfortably benching more than this.
 
So, my questions are.

• How much of a worm up do you chaps do before going for a max lift? I have a feeling I'm tiring myself out prior, but am petrified of attempting one without being fully warmed up.
• If I'm doing 3x6 at 120K, what would be a sensible weight to attempt for a 1RM? 
• What is a reasonable 1RM? Post yours and perhaps we can find an average.

As always. Thanks for any responses.  

You did gain far too much fat though,I mean,you're not muscular at all,you're just a fat mess.

Your right you should have posted it in training :)

It'll be moved anyway so I'll try and answer you Q.;

1) Your right you don't want to tire yourself out warming up. Don't need to rep out prior. Maybe a set of 8, followed by a couple of 3's' then an easy/solid single or 2 before the big attempt.

2) Does depend if you bouncing you reps, or even not pausing and re-setting? 140 would look very doable for you, maybe more.

3) This is how long is a piece of string. Personally 180-182.5 would be 'resonable' dependent on BW. An average (mean) would be meanignless as the population would be so varied (experince, body weight, drug use etc).

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Many many thanks for your response IainK. I ground the bar after each rep so I'm fairly sure I'm not bouncing them if indeed thats what 'bouncing means'.
 
I think I probably could do 140, but i think I still have a few confidence issues. We hear so many people talking about 'bad backs' that it can be difficult to get over this. I'm still worrying about my arms snapping!

Once again many thanks for your response.

You did gain far too much fat though,I mean,you're not muscular at all,you're just a fat mess.

Yes that's what I meant reg bouncing.

Good luck with it. Get a vid if you can. We like vids here! Vouyers that we are lol

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I'll wait till I get up to a more acceptable weight before i do any vid lol.

Won't be long before I'm picking up the back end of my 3 series. Though of course I will be chocking the front wheels unlike some!

You did gain far too much fat though,I mean,you're not muscular at all,you're just a fat mess.

lol

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warm up until you feel comfortable. pyramid the weight up until you reach your target.
If i was maxing out and my previous 1rep max was 290kg then a typical warm up for my self would look something like this

2 sets 70kg x 5
120kg x 5
170kg x 3
220kg x 2
270kg x 1
300kg x 1

Try this

2 sets 60kg x 5
100kg x 3
130kg x 1-2 (if one feels easy go for another)

You have to judge how you feel, if it felt easy then try 150kg, if it felt hard try 140kg. Dont be scared of the weight!

If your new to deadlifts, focus on technique. The last thing you want is a back injury holting your training!

english.bred.muscle@googlemail.com

Thanks very much. I will try just that in my next dead session.

I'll let you know how I get on.


Cheers

You did gain far too much fat though,I mean,you're not muscular at all,you're just a fat mess.

Just a quick reply total, even though you say you want to post a decent lift before you upload a vid, i would be careful and post a video up now when you are in the 120s. Or just get advice from a decent PT.
 
I used an overhand/underhand grip when it got heavy, form was always good generally. I think  Iwas deading 180 at the time but due to the grip my right side got too strong and i was slightly abducting on the way up (I always tried to balance out swapping round which hand was underhand) but in the end i got a nasty injury. I switched up to hook grip and re-reviewed by entire setip. Jsut a note to be careful.

Oh and I think 2.5x B/W is a benchmark in DL strength.

stidge20
 

but due to the grip my right side got too strong and i was slightly abducting on the way up

can you explain what you mean here, please?

calm down, its life, mate, its only a game

and what was the "nasty injury"

calm down, its life, mate, its only a game

stidge20


Just a quick reply total, even though you say you want to post a decent lift before you upload a vid, i would be careful and post a video up now when you are in the 120s. Or just get advice from a decent PT.
 
I used an overhand/underhand grip when it got heavy, form was always good generally. I think  Iwas deading 180 at the time but due to the grip my right side got too strong and i was slightly abducting on the way up (I always tried to balance out swapping round which hand was underhand) but in the end i got a nasty injury. I switched up to hook grip and re-reviewed by entire setip. Jsut a note to be careful.

Oh and I think 2.5x B/W is a benchmark in DL strength.

That is total crap!!
an overhand/underhand grip is best and allows you to handle more weight! You probably had a slight twist in your hips at some point which lead to further injury! This is all due to ****ty technique! hence the emphasis on good form! to be honest total, i would make sure your technique is good before attempting max's. ive seen many a back injury from curving the spine during the lift and these injures can be hard to recover from!
 
You would need to freakish forearm strength to hold 300+ kg with a hook grip! And dont you dare say 'use straps' because thats just as gay as your post!!

english.bred.muscle@googlemail.com

Yeah never use straps, get some liquid chalk.
Overhand/underhand all the way.
One thing I always see on Dead Lifts are people trying to lift a weight they know they cannot do, and as above they curve the spine or another thing I hate is people bouncing the bar on the floor, if your not controlling the movement all the way up AND down, then your not doing it correctly.

English.muscle

stidge20


Just a quick reply total, even though you say you want to post a decent lift before you upload a vid, i would be careful and post a video up now when you are in the 120s. Or just get advice from a decent PT.
 
I used an overhand/underhand grip when it got heavy, form was always good generally. I think  Iwas deading 180 at the time but due to the grip my right side got too strong and i was slightly abducting on the way up (I always tried to balance out swapping round which hand was underhand) but in the end i got a nasty injury. I switched up to hook grip and re-reviewed by entire setip. Jsut a note to be careful.

Oh and I think 2.5x B/W is a benchmark in DL strength.

That is total crap!!
an overhand/underhand grip is best and allows you to handle more weight! You probably had a slight twist in your hips at some point which lead to further injury! This is all due to ****ty technique! hence the emphasis on good form! to be honest total, i would make sure your technique is good before attempting max's. ive seen many a back injury from curving the spine during the lift and these injures can be hard to recover from!
 
You would need to freakish forearm strength to hold 300+ kg with a hook grip! And dont you dare say 'use straps' because thats just as gay as your post!!

Using straps is not gay you moron. Generally your back will be stronger than your grip, and on the whole a good back workout will be impossible without them. If your grip never fails then you have a very weak back. There are many people who use straps including your Mr Olympias.

Also using an overhand grip with straps means you are unlikely to suffer a bicep tear.

LIAM: "I'm 24 years old. I've got a load of money, what am I gonna do - sit at home and twiddle me thumbs? No. I'm gonna go out and 'ave it."

NOEL: "Taking drugs is like getting up and having a cup of tea in the morning."

300kg deadlift and 180kg bent rows for 5's....yes my back is very weak. guess what my grip never fails, on anything!
the only thing i use straps for is shrugging.

straps are gay and so are you!

english.bred.muscle@googlemail.com

Stop the stupid name calling please! Unacceptable behaviour here on MT.

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English.muscle - very good lifting but very bad posting attitude. I have sent you a PM, please heed the message.
 
Back OT, an alternate grip is stronger than a double overhand grip but does increase the possibility of developing musclar imbalances due to a mixture of supinated and pronated grip.

In the world of BBing, using straps to DL is not necessarily a bad thing. PLing obviously not so.

English.muscle


300kg deadlift and 180kg bent rows for 5's....yes my back is very weak. guess what my grip never fails, on anything!
the only thing i use straps for is shrugging.

straps are gay and so are you!

Hmmm, so you do use straps.  Your grip MUST fail then.  Please Explain why straps are gay but YOU use them.

because i shrug with an overhand grip, you try do that with 360kg for 8 reps and see if  the bar stays in your hands

english.bred.muscle@googlemail.com

I'm not a fan of straps unless needed (I use them for a couple movements when my hands are really torn up), but for a bodybuilder they're fine IMO

and on the whole a good back workout will be impossible without them. If your grip never fails then you have a very weak back

Seriously? Let's change that too "if your grip fails, you have weak hands/forearms". It's all relative; Andy Bolton has pull 1000+lbs without straps.. is his back weak? What a rediculous statement

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I totally agree with CF on the above point. Heavy dumbbell rows are the only back lifts I need straps.. If you want it and train for it you grip can exede even the strongest back strength. Off course most don't take the time to do this (myself included if you note I do use straps for d rows)

I would to also point out that unacceptable language has continued to be used after warnings from moderators!!!!

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cricket_fire


I'm not a fan of straps unless needed (I use them for a couple movements when my hands are really torn up), but for a bodybuilder they're fine IMO

and on the whole a good back workout will be impossible without them. If your grip never fails then you have a very weak back

Seriously? Let's change that too "if your grip fails, you have weak hands/forearms". It's all relative; Andy Bolton has pull 1000+lbs without straps.. is his back weak? What a rediculous statement

It's quite clear I wasn't talking about comp lifts, that I was talking about a back workout, as that is what I clearly stated. I don't know anyone personally certainly including myself who can do a heavy dead session, with chins, rows e.t.c without grip limiting your workout.

LIAM: "I'm 24 years old. I've got a load of money, what am I gonna do - sit at home and twiddle me thumbs? No. I'm gonna go out and 'ave it."

NOEL: "Taking drugs is like getting up and having a cup of tea in the morning."

DB rows aside I can honestly say I cant think of anything id ever use straps for. Maybe rack pulls to save my hands a bit. Personally, I dont think they are necessary at all.

22.5kg to go.

It's quite clear I wasn't talking about comp lifts, that I was talking about a back workout, as that is what I clearly stated

Yup.. where in a back workout is 1000+lbs used? If he can hold onto 1000lbs a 200lb pulldown should be a non-issue

I don't know anyone personally certainly including myself who can do a heavy dead session, with chins, rows e.t.c without grip limiting your workout.

Grip strength isn't, and hasn't for a long time been a limiting factor in my training. I've used straps the last 8 weeks or so for certain exercises because Accutane has dried up my hands enough that it hurt to hold a bar.. now that I'm off I'll only be using them for the occassional high rep dumbell rows.

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Success breeds success

cricket_fire

It's quite clear I wasn't talking about comp lifts, that I was talking about a back workout, as that is what I clearly stated

Yup.. where in a back workout is 1000+lbs used? If he can hold onto 1000lbs a 200lb pulldown should be a non-issue

I don't know anyone personally certainly including myself who can do a heavy dead session, with chins, rows e.t.c without grip limiting your workout.

Grip strength isn't, and hasn't for a long time been a limiting factor in my training. I've used straps the last 8 weeks or so for certain exercises because Accutane has dried up my hands enough that it hurt to hold a bar.. now that I'm off I'll only be using them for the occassional high rep dumbell rows.

Good for you.

Few people here who would disagree with you though

http://www.uk-muscle.co...st-straps-they-crap.html

LIAM: "I'm 24 years old. I've got a load of money, what am I gonna do - sit at home and twiddle me thumbs? No. I'm gonna go out and 'ave it."

NOEL: "Taking drugs is like getting up and having a cup of tea in the morning."

Which part of my post do they disagree with?

I'm not a fan of straps unless needed (I use them for a couple movements when my hands are really torn up), but for a bodybuilder they're fine IMO

I was just pointing out that it's absolutely NOT impossible to get a good back workout, and that it absolutely does NOT mean you have a weak back if your grip doesn't fail. I never said bodybuilders shouldn't use them (infact I said otherwise), I just said that I personally am not a fan.

Bolton might've not been the best example, but there are PLENTY of strength athletes who can get a perfectly good back workout without the use of straps.

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Success breeds success

I've only just started to perform deadlifts as part of my pull routine.
I find I'm OK for 6 reps with 120kg but with 130kg on the bar I feel I'm losing control after 4 reps.
With straps I'm good for 6 at 130kg and 6 at 140kg.
If I chose to omit straps then I wouldn't be lifting over 120kg until my grip strengthened but my back workout would suffer until then.

I feel if I carry on like this then my back will get progressivly stronger whilst creating an even wider gap in respect to grip strength.

Any suggestions?

Gary; Use a mixed grip and chalk.

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Thanks Iain.

I had been using an over/under hand grip without straps but with straps I opted for a double over.

I keep seeing liquid chalk mentioned. Is it as messy as powdered?

I havn't used liquid chalk but I hear good things about it, and the fact it's very low on the mess.

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