Are gains from DS really keepable?

I was thinking about this today.  If the gains were keepable wouldnt the people who have run several cycles be absolutely massive especially if they are gaining 5 to 8 ilbs each cycle?

The key to this mate is what the gains are - lean muscle tissue gains should absolutely be keepable if diet, rest and training are in check

Thing is, most of the gains made are not lean muscle tissue, some being fat and some water

In my opinion a seasoned user should be very pleased with 2lb lean tissue gain over a 4 week cycle - move to injectable aas and the story is of course a different one, though not markedly so once a user is considerably past their genetic potential

Mean to add - 1st cycles will also be a different case, similarly cycles ran by those that are not yet anywhere near their genetic potential

Celt, just to clarify what you mean mate - people running cycles while not anywhere near their genetic potential will experience better quality gains than somebody close to or past their genetic potential, all other things (diet, rest, etc) being equal?

There's certainly potential for that mate - its not a steadfast rule though

Consider the trainer that's ran many cycles and is past genetic potential - the body is effectively fighting against adding mass. The newb trainer however may start at 11st and could naturally get to a lean 14st with good diet/training/rest - if they run cycles at 11st their body is happy to grow, so will do.

Imo DS gains are tough to keep. Ive ran epi and sd, i find most mass gains are keepable but my strength gradually comes down which is shi*. Thats one of the reason im thinking of running a test e cycle soon.

Icemansoldier


Imo DS gains are tough to keep. Ive ran epi and sd, i find most mass gains are keepable but my strength gradually comes down which is shi*. Thats one of the reason im thinking of running a test e cycle soon.

Found the oposite, lost the mass, kept the strength

I'd rather it be the other way round though

Interesting......Test e's the way foward mate

I've managed to keep pretty much al my gains from a previous SD cycle. Strength did go down a little on certain excersises, but not a lot.

I think if you have suffucient PCT and keep diet and training in check (ie do not reduce cals through PCT and keep lifting heavy as poss), then there is no reason why you cant keep the majority of your gains.

Icemansoldier


Interesting......Test e's the way foward mate

how will that be any different?

^^^^My thoughts too

???

Icemansoldier


Imo DS gains are tough to keep. Ive ran epi and sd, i find most mass gains are keepable but my strength gradually comes down which is shi*. Thats one of the reason im thinking of running a test e cycle soon.

Similar here for me. Ran an Epi/EQ-Plax stack for six weeks back in June/July and was pleased with the gains, particularly in strength. However, after a decent (IMO) PCT and consistent training since then the strength has dropped and I'm  back to practically the same level as before the cycle.

Arfie

Icemansoldier


Imo DS gains are tough to keep. Ive ran epi and sd, i find most mass gains are keepable but my strength gradually comes down which is shi*. Thats one of the reason im thinking of running a test e cycle soon.

Similar here for me. Ran an Epi/EQ-Plax stack for six weeks back in June/July and was pleased with the gains, particularly in strength. However, after a decent (IMO) PCT and consistent training since then the strength has dropped and I'm  back to practically the same level as before the cycle.

But when you say you lost strength, where you still trying to lift heavy? And where you still eating the same amount of cals as when you where on cycle?
Also, what was your PCT mate?

I've never lost a single pound during pct or after unless 'desired' i.e through a cut. But then i'm certainly not a frequent user of ph/ds and only have 2 previous (and 5 years apart) cycles under my belt.

At the end of the day the reason your average recreational trainer like myself who posts on this site, does not live just to train and so will have off periods due to other commitments and are not taking it to the extreme etc

As such IMO you will inevitably loose gains made.
 
But if diet, training rest are in check all the time I don’t see why gains made on cycle are not keepable.

Taz


At the end of the day the reason your average recreational trainer like myself who posts on this site, does not live just to train and so will have off periods due to other commitments and are not taking it to the extreme etc

As such IMO you will inevitably loose gains made.
 
But if diet, training rest are in check all the time I don’t see why gains made on cycle are not keepable.

Agree with the above. A good effective PCT protocol makes all the difference IME

Icemansoldier


Interesting......Test e's the way foward mate

Well I kept about 6lbs....gained 12lbs....so not bad IMO

I forgot to mention that i have also only ever used 'dry' compounds so anyone using the 'wet' compounds would very likely lose a lot of water weight post cycle etc.

I think losing gains can be due to:
1) Not adjusting training volume/routine during pct
2) Insufficient pct (not long enough or inadequate products for the job etc)
3) Reducing calories in fear of fat gain
4) Not taking into account the nature of the compound (wet or dry...)

First ever ph i did i went up to a very lean 89kgs, i kept every single lb until i decided to have a particularly strict cut a few months later. Second cycle i ran was hdrol and made good lean gains and havent lost a lb to this day. I just keep it low voluem and heavy during pct add in creatine etc.....

Taz


At the end of the day the reason your average recreational trainer like myself who posts on this site, does not live just to train and so will have off periods due to other commitments and are not taking it to the extreme etc

As such IMO you will inevitably loose gains made.
 
But if diet, training rest are in check all the time I don’t see why gains made on cycle are not keepable.

Agree with this
 
I'll gain like most on a cycle (be it otc or test-e). but Inevitabley you'll lose some size as your own test production starts to come back (through and after pct), even when it's back it'll not be able to sustain the amount of new muscle/size gained from all the steriods ingested or injected (av. mens test is around 250ng/dl to 850 ng/dl). Hence top or even regional level bodybuilders often stay on and alternate dosages for long periods of time.
 
Ice you'll have impressive gains from test-e (diet and training permitted) but when you come off you'll be faced with the same problem's as anyone else.
 
chart on av. test production male/age
http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html
 

Interesting reading this. I would add that from experience with working with many, many people that upon cessation of steroid use, the body will revert in time to it's natural maximum.

If you take DS/PH's when you are not already there then yes you will, with good training and supplements keep the majority of your gains.

Certainly I do not know many who would fall into the category of people who are already at or near their natural max.