protin shake before training ?

  Are people still recommending this ? Shake before training,  once the protien is ready to be absorbed it sould be right near the end of your training session when that big old window  is wide open !!( hormone not, weights room ) What do you chaps reckon ? dont think I could do it on a leg day and keep it all down ! 
 
(me and my spelling)

No idea really whether having a shake before working out is optimal for protein absorption but I tend to agree with you - reckon I'd puke if I had a shake beforehand!

Yes protein before and even during training has a beneficial performance effect!

Replenishment effect of protein before - debatable - with ropey study evidence, and evidence of during is even more scant and ropey.

And you have stated one of the big barriers to protein during and often before - however. I would say that 5g of high quality isolate added to a normal carb based pre training meal would be a good idea to cover the performance base.

youre not meant to have it directly beforehand afaik, around 45mins/1hour before is recommended if i know correctly

Depends what form you're talking about. Obviously a whey isolate or hyro'd protein is the choice here.

15-20g in the 15-30 mins before has a real world effect upon recovery (espcially when teamed with some CHO).

obviously?

Obviously.

Have a little steak, tuna, some cottage cheese even a milk protein concentrate shake then go train immediately and come back to me....

Whey, HC or HW are easier on the stomach and whey is more palatable when mixed with carb drinks.

so the distinction between hydrolysate, isolate and intact whey is one of comfort rather than an issue of digestion/absorption, i.e. the research doesn't suggest any difference between either

I'm fine with that. although I don't know many people who have trouble downing a scoop of whey with whatever. plus hydrolysates taste awful

Cheers chaps ! Seems to be a wealth of knowledge here !

R3261

I'm fine with that.

Good, I'm glad.

R3261

although I don't know many people who have trouble downing a scoop of whey with whatever.

Which was my point

R3261

plus hydrolysates taste awful

Not if you mix it with the right flavours!

Some tolerate hydr'd proteins better (unconnected with allergy issues), I have also seen improvements in recovery substituting them for whey with clients.

I have also tried a WPH in the past to no beneficial results.

Yes but I am talking about a range of athletes with a range of different needs, seems you're just talking from your own experience. You'd be the first to notice that n=1!

This is quite an important factor because most people aren't going to notice a difference, other than in their wallet.

get an athlete to spend a considerable amount of money on a similiar product, combine it with your consultation fee and expertise telling them it is going to do x better, root it in the OCD nature of sport and that's a mighty tasty bowl of placebo

of course we could discuss why it would work better instead?

You'd be the first to notice that n=1!

n=1

funny

but as it is personal testimony is a weak form of evidence. for every positive review there is an equally valid negative review.

I believe in Pixies but without objective evidence it don't mean nadda

R3261

get an athlete to spend a considerable amount of money on a similiar product, combine it with your consultation fee and expertise telling them it is going to do x better, root it in the OCD nature of sport and that's a mighty tasty bowl of placebo

You seem to have a skewed picture of the enviroment.

The majority of sports nutrition packages aren't delivered like this and the one-to-one work in clinic is not something you would use to form an opinion due to the diverse range of individuals, demands, lifestyles etc, again it's like n=1.

No, the above might be true if half the time they new what they were getting (or understood or cared) or, indeed, paying out of their own pocket for my services, it's more like 'there's shakers provided, this one has my name printed on it, I'll drink it'. Med/Sci teams are there to think about this so the athlete and even coaches don't have to.

As for possible mechanisms, I don't know, there's a variety of things you'd look at. Many who benefit also seem to get ill less often which you would expect to be a significant factor in performance and stats improvements but that throws up more questions than answers....

Hopefully one day we will have some answers but the amount of money available for research unconnected with interested parties as you know is small, so we go on relying on a little research here and there and inferences from other areas.

R3261

You'd be the first to notice that n=1!

n=1

funny

but as it is personal testimony is a weak form of evidence. for every positive review there is an equally valid negative review.

I believe in Pixies but without objective evidence it don't mean nadda

Agreed there mate!

Although if believing in pixies improves health*, performance, or bodycomp then I am sure we can rustle up a Toadstool Consultant from somewhere!

*mental aside, obviously.

drewsky

R3261

get an athlete to spend a considerable amount of money on a similiar product, combine it with your consultation fee and expertise telling them it is going to do x better, root it in the OCD nature of sport and that's a mighty tasty bowl of placebo

You seem to have a skewed picture of the enviroment.

The majority of sports nutrition packages aren't delivered like this and the one-to-one work in clinic is not something you would use to form an opinion due to the diverse range of individuals, demands, lifestyles etc, again it's like n=1.

No, the above might be true if half the time they new what they were getting (or understood or cared) or, indeed, paying out of their own pocket for my services, it's more like 'there's shakers provided, this one has my name printed on it, I'll drink it'. Med/Sci teams are there to think about this so the athlete and even coaches don't have to.

As for possible mechanisms, I don't know, there's a variety of things you'd look at. Many who benefit also seem to get ill less often which you would expect to be a significant factor in performance and stats improvements but that throws up more questions than answers....

Hopefully one day we will have some answers but the amount of money available for research unconnected with interested parties as you know is small, so we go on relying on a little research here and there and inferences from other areas.

I'll take your word for it

Isn't there a case for the uptake rates pre exercise being better than those afterwards due to hormonal changes and "flight or fight" like stimulus having an affect on uptake post workout (similar theories with fast acting carb intake times).

I'm sure there's enough out there to read up on if you do a search.

I'd say both are important and I would never not have my PWO intake but adding in a pre from what I've read up on is not a bad idea but you should of course be taking in a good protein and low Gi meal pre workout anyway. Your timings would just differ with the obvious difference in digestive times assocoated with your pre-workout choice of solid or supplement.

its only a protien shake boys ! no trouble ! or is there history!

Cheers lex !