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 Retirement.....

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peagreen
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Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 15:31
.... from another thread, do we think retirement will exist in the future as it does today?  The pension deficit is huge and hardly covers everyday living expenses, do we honestly believe retirement as we see it, will be available for us later in life?

I know people who have paid in thousands upon thousands towards private pension schemes which have failed and are now worth nothing!!  What is the answer?


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yungdest81
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 15:31
No.
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monitor
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 15:33
I can't see the state pension existing for mid to high earners.

With respect to final pensions, don't know, I'll find out in a few decades.
I'm a Pharma Company's bitch

Varg
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 15:46
I doubt it.
My grandfather and to a lesser extent my father's generation just got a job after school, stayed there until 65 then retired on state pension.

Those days are gone.
I know people my age (35) with no private pension, I only started one at 30.

Who knows where we'll be?



Blue_Lagoon3000
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 15:46
Im hope im never gonna retire and i hope im never gonna have a pension as they are a load of bollocks, as i stand now im not in a position where i can say for sure i'll never need one though. If all goes to plan i'll have a business empire and my kids will be well groomed in to the business world and they can take over from me while i live on a lake in Italy with fit women, i'd chill in the sun whilst they massage my back with baby oil. The scary thing is that if you earn enough money this can actually be real life... Buy we can all dream ay.

peagreen
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 15:52
Varg

I know people my age (35) with no private pension, I only started one at 30.
My father was supposed to retire in 07, he had paid a private pension since he was 21, the payout in real terms works out less than he paid in each week - the reasons, poor investments and a collapse or several.  He has spent the last two years trying to retrieve a lump payment instead, they are simply not returning his letters or phone calls.  Who is responsible, no one knows as the original company who he took the policy with was swallowed by one company, then another and so on.........

Lets all pass the buck, while they literally have stolen tens of thousands of his money!!


<message edited by peagreen on 20 November 2009 15:53>
"A tight pant wearing bum lover from a popular training forum."  Daz FP
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Varg
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 16:01
peagreen

the payout in real terms works out less than he paid in each week


Yeah, the bad thing is - if the stock market goes crap when you are due to retire you lose value.
If you are due to retire a couple of years later when things have picked up, you're alright!

But I would expect a weekly pension to be less than a weekly wage.



stephen77
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 17:21
Is it better to put your money into a normal saving account etc so at least you know its there? or invest in property or just get mortgage paid off quicker?

Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 17:30
peagreen


.... from another thread, do we think retirement will exist in the future as it does today?  The pension deficit is huge and hardly covers everyday living expenses, do we honestly believe retirement as we see it, will be available for us later in life?

I know people who have paid in thousands upon thousands towards private pension schemes which have failed and are now worth nothing!!  What is the answer?


Don't let other people have control over your money and expect them to give a stuff about your interests.
A fully paid up spokesperson for Big Oil and board member for the illuminati, posting from a tropical tax haven.  Caution: Posts may not have any moral content.





Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 17:37
stephen77


Is it better to put your money into a normal saving account etc so at least you know its there? or invest in property or just get mortgage paid off quicker?


Paying off debt should always be first on the list, but trying to use a normal savings account for retirement is plain barking mad.  You pay tax on the money when you earn it, then your taxed on the interest paid and all the while inflation eats away at it too.
A fully paid up spokesperson for Big Oil and board member for the illuminati, posting from a tropical tax haven.  Caution: Posts may not have any moral content.





tac
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 17:45
The state pension appears to be one giant ponzi scheme which, if anyone other than the government were running it, would be illegal



Mobster
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 17:48
In a word. Yes. I fully intend retiring as and when but I am not over reliant on either the state or any invested pension I have.

Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 17:58
tac


The state pension appears to be one giant ponzi scheme which, if anyone other than the government were running it, would be illegal


Technically it is illegal.  There is nothing excluding the govt from the laws against ponzi schemes.  Fiat currency is also a ponzi scheme and was actually invented as such by one John Law.

Everyone is happy as long as the music keeps playing......
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PAGAN
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:02
What the hell would I do all day if I didn't work? I dont play golf , I dont like walking dogs and I dont want to look after grandkids all day.
 
I want to work until I die. I hope that my last job is something I enjoy and that I have good workmates. Ill health may well stop me doing this but then if I'm too ill to work I'm too ill to do anything much that would cost money anyway so I'll just go into a goverment care home and rot away.
No biggie like, there are a lot worse things for you than using steroids, I mean I probably shouldn't have been smoking crack or getting into bar fights at your age TBH  - drab4


Varg
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:04
Wheels


Paying off debt should always be first on the list, but trying to use a normal savings account for retirement is plain barking mad.  You pay tax on the money when you earn it, then your taxed on the interest paid and all the while inflation eats away at it too.


So what do you recommend?
Cash in the attic?


badladmark
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:10
I haven't got one. Currently using money to pay off the mortgage quicker, after that will just use a savings account.

A regular pension will probably cost me an absolute fortune and will no doubt pay out very little, so sod it

Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:26
Varg


Wheels


Paying off debt should always be first on the list, but trying to use a normal savings account for retirement is plain barking mad.  You pay tax on the money when you earn it, then your taxed on the interest paid and all the while inflation eats away at it too.


So what do you recommend?
Cash in the attic?


Run your own pension and invest it yourself.  It doesn't take much knowedge to do a decent job of it.  Much, much cheaper than letting someone else do it.
A fully paid up spokesperson for Big Oil and board member for the illuminati, posting from a tropical tax haven.  Caution: Posts may not have any moral content.





Rosc0PColtrane
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:40
Blue_Lagoon3000


Im hope im never gonna retire and i hope im never gonna have a pension as they are a load of bollocks, as i stand now im not in a position where i can say for sure i'll never need one though. If all goes to plan i'll have a business empire and my kids will be well groomed in to the business world and they can take over from me while i live on a lake in Italy with fit women, i'd chill in the sun whilst they massage my back with baby oil. The scary thing is that if you earn enough money this can actually be real life... Buy we can all dream ay.


That's exactly the sort of reaction from someone who knows nothing about pensions.

The problem is education. Most people stick their heads in the sand.

Who knows what the state pension is currently??   I'll tell you, a little over £90. Currently drawable from 60 for women and 65 for men. That's being equalised. I'm 31. By the time I retire, I fully expect any semblance of state pension to start between 70 and 75. State pension has been in decline for over 40 years. It's one of the reasons Thatcher encouraged us to buy up our council houses.  So the value would have use in retirement.

So how many of us can live in £90 a week? It leaves many pensioners in poverty now. You've seen them, gaunt, smelling of week old pi55, too poor to take a wash. It'll only get worse too.

There are many different types of pension scheme, a heads up for you self employed folks with employees (ltd companies really) , by 2012, you'll have to contribute to their pension. It's being phased in from then. Eventually, 3% will come from employers, 5% from employees. Via Personal Accounts scheme.

Pensions are the most tax efficient way of saving. The government gives you tax relief on your contributions. So if you were to put £100 a month into a pension, the government would put £25 in, if you're a standard rate tax payer. Higher rate tax payers can then claim up the 40% income tax bracket on their self assesment.  You could look at it as an instant return on your investment if you like. So for the time the money is invested, you have between 25% and 40% more working for you.

I'll talk about fundamentally basic pension schemes, typically Stakeholder, as they're probably the most common you'll see outside of company schemes. People who are ready for SIPS schemes already have the understanding I'll describe.

The money is invested in funds. These funds should be a diverse portfolio consisting of bonds (loans to blue chip companies and the govt (gilts)), commercial property (shopping centres and rents) and equities (shares, uk and overseas too). The more risk you care to take on long term savings, the greater the proportion of shares in the portfolio, with more overseas and uk, as compared with bonds. The capital will sit in these funds growing in value and attracting dividends too. Savings accounts CANNOT compete in the long term. In fact, the rate of inflation is currently outpacing the rate of interest you get on your savings in most cases. Your money will lose value. (ie ten years ago a tenner would buy 5 pints, now it buys 3. Result is your tenner is worth less, you need £15)

The Stakeholder is a cracking product. It has vastly reduced charges (No more than 2% annually) and lifestyle switching. This means that 5 years before your retirement date, the money is moved out of the risky fund and placed in to a Pension Protector Fund. This is cash based so your capital cannot lose value. The reason is this. 5 years is seen as the change from medium to long term. If for example you were due to retire autumn 2008 and didn't have lifestyle switching, your fund value would have dropped. Lifestyle switching would have switched the money out and protected you from that particular fall. A 5 year term is seen as not quite enough time for recovery.

Over the long term shares will out perform cash deposits (bank based savings). I can provide data to back this up. Yes the value will go down and up, but the net result is that it outperforms none the less. The long term smooths out the peaks and troughs.

You can stop and start  pension payments as you wish, they start from as little as £20 a month (£25 when the govt adds their bit) and can go up to your annual salary.

Self employed people: This is also an opportunity to reduce NIC's too. LTD companies: Payments can impact corporation tax too.

You will be able to draw your pension any time from 55 to 75. At that time you have two choices.

First you could buy an annuity, a product which pays an income, or secondly, probably the better idea, you take 25% TAX FREE and use the remainder to buy the annuity.

The downside is that once the money is in there, you cannot get it out until you retire. That's not a bad thing for undisciplined savers like me. If you die before you draw it, the money is given to a selected beneficiary.

If you have no pension planning, get it done now. Some is better than none. I'll happily answer any questions about pensions, I'm qualified to talk about them. It's something vastly misunderstood which we all need to be thinking about.  Don't stick your head in the sand. Don't write something off because you don't understand it.

Apologies for the rant, it's something I believe in.
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Rosc0PColtrane
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:42
Wheels


Varg


Wheels


Paying off debt should always be first on the list, but trying to use a normal savings account for retirement is plain barking mad.  You pay tax on the money when you earn it, then your taxed on the interest paid and all the while inflation eats away at it too.


So what do you recommend?
Cash in the attic?


Run your own pension and invest it yourself.  It doesn't take much knowedge to do a decent job of it.  Much, much cheaper than letting someone else do it.


Much like it's cheaper to fix your car yourself. Or do your own plumbing. But how many of us have the skill to manage a porfolio? Basic investors should join recognised schemes as it gives them more clout being part of a bigger picture. With charges from 1% (significantly cheaper than car dealer labour charges as a %age of cost!!!), it's not worth dabbling if you're not confident in the market place, or have the time/understanding to keep on top of it.


"If you're going through hell, keep going!" - Winston Churchill

Cowards die a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once.



marc_m
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:47
No!

Prepare to work right up to until the day you die

peagreen
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:48
What's to stop the government stop contributing and/or to dip into the accumulating pot, like local councils have done?
<message edited by peagreen on 20 November 2009 18:50>
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MT2006
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 18:56
With my limited knowledge (read a couple of basic books on investing, trying to learn more), you would probably get a better return if you managed a low risk portfolio yourself which has minimal charges and placed £X per month into it.
 
Keeping your money in a savings account is a bad idea. Inflation will eat lots out of it in the long term. I am sure there are funds out there which are good, but many have proved not to be.

I have started putting £100 per month in a FTSE tracker wrapped in an ISA - which has a low annual charge. Will keep money going for the next 40 years probably (I am 21 now). As I learn more I am hoping to diversify into individual shares (opposed to an index) and bonds, but I need to learn lots more until I feel safe doing that, so maybe looking at a few years away as I read more. 

Wheels seems to know a lot about investing, plus PartyBoy and few others.

Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:00
Rosc0PColtrane

Much like it's cheaper to fix your car yourself. Or do your own plumbing. But how many of us have the skill to manage a porfolio? Basic investors should join recognised schemes as it gives them more clout being part of a bigger picture. With charges from 1% (significantly cheaper than car dealer labour charges as a %age of cost!!!), it's not worth dabbling if you're not confident in the market place, or have the time/understanding to keep on top of it.


No, this is a poor analogy.  If you hire a plumber or mechanic and have no idea what is a good price, what is needed or what to expect then you will be ripped off just the same as many peoples pensions do. Having some knowedge is vital.  You do not need to know details, just that if the windscreen wipers don't work it's unlikely to require the engine being replaced.  It's not a simple question of someone's time, it's about control.

Note also the real charges on many private pensions are much more that 1%, where do you think all these fat city bonuses come from?  Even at 1%, how many pensions perform well enough to justify this cost compared to base or index trackers?  The answer is about 1/1000 over the life of a pension, if that.

As for the time or knowedge, this is your money and your retirement.  For many people it's there entire life savings.  Worth spending a bit of time on don't you think?
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Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:01
peagreen


What's to stop the government stop contributing and/or to dip into the accumulating pot, like local councils have done?


There is no accumulating pot.  The money will extracted from taxpayers as required.
A fully paid up spokesperson for Big Oil and board member for the illuminati, posting from a tropical tax haven.  Caution: Posts may not have any moral content.





DieselD
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:04
monitor


I can't see the state pension existing for mid to high earners.

With respect to final pensions, don't know, I'll find out in a few decades.


Agreed, state pension is almost certainly going to be means tested. I love living in Britain but my gripe is with the state of things like the pension. I really wouldn't fancy living on £90 a week in my 70s when I've worked all my life.

It's all about finding the median between spending your means and saving for your future! Who knows, if you save for the future you may never get to spend it :-(
<message edited by DieselD on 20 November 2009 19:06>
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Wheels
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:06
Rosc0PColtrane

Pensions are the most tax efficient way of saving. The government gives you tax relief on your contributions. So if you were to put £100 a month into a pension, the government would put £25 in, if you're a standard rate tax payer. Higher rate tax payers can then claim up the 40% income tax bracket on their self assesment.  You could look at it as an instant return on your investment if you like. So for the time the money is invested, you have between 25% and 40% more working for you.


Agggggggh!!!!!!!

The government does NOT put £25 in.  It simply doesn't take the £25 it would normally take off you.

In either case, it was your money in the first place.  With a pension, you get to keep it for a while longer.
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Red Man
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:10
I personally intend to work until i physically (or mentally) cannot work anymore...
I do not have a pension, i do not ever plan on having one.

My general plan is to collect as much money from my working life as possible and invest it into propert in some way. Be that in my own house or as several other rental properties.
Eventually when i do decide to stop working i will simply sell what i have and/or downsize my current abode to a bungalow that i can grow old and die in.

I do not believe in letting another party play with my money in anyway. They are obviously employed to do so and as such draw a wage from doing so, therefore turn extra profit from my savings.

Ive also heard of many many many people that have been shafted by savings/investment/pension companys.
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ginasmg
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:11
Retirement will exist,wether or not pensions will cover the cost of retiring i very much doubt tbh.
Answer is to save or invest yourself by gaining a little knowledge of the system.
Goverment pensions will only be available if "means tested" in a few years imo. but i think companies will still have a pension scheme(possibly untill your 70) as it wil lure in potential workforce imo of corse.
Those who cannot fly seek to clip the wings of others.

Red Man
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:13
Wheels


Rosc0PColtrane

Pensions are the most tax efficient way of saving. The government gives you tax relief on your contributions. So if you were to put £100 a month into a pension, the government would put £25 in, if you're a standard rate tax payer. Higher rate tax payers can then claim up the 40% income tax bracket on their self assesment.  You could look at it as an instant return on your investment if you like. So for the time the money is invested, you have between 25% and 40% more working for you.


Agggggggh!!!!!!!

The government does NOT put £25 in.  It simply doesn't take the £25 it would normally take off you.

In either case, it was your money in the first place.  With a pension, you get to keep it for a while longer.


I had this ridiculous explanation from someone in the bank a while ago. She was adamant that i would get £25 extra off them.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin


Varg
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 19:16
Wheels


Run your own pension and invest it yourself.  It doesn't take much knowedge to do a decent job of it.  Much, much cheaper than letting someone else do it.


Right, I thought you were saying investment pension schemes were a bad idea.

Unfortunately I'm pretty clueless about financial stuff, although I'm happy to do basic car maintenance, DIY and plumbing!



BIGDOWNUNDER
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 20:22
I've had a private pension since starting my YTS in 1989-I also have one in Aus.  The back up plan is my wife is 9yrs younger and is a nurse so she can look after me and keep on earning when I'm retired!
How dare you queston my heritage!! theirs a bottle of HP sauce in my fridge.

Rosc0PColtrane
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 20:45
Wheels


Rosc0PColtrane

Pensions are the most tax efficient way of saving. The government gives you tax relief on your contributions. So if you were to put £100 a month into a pension, the government would put £25 in, if you're a standard rate tax payer. Higher rate tax payers can then claim up the 40% income tax bracket on their self assesment.  You could look at it as an instant return on your investment if you like. So for the time the money is invested, you have between 25% and 40% more working for you.


Agggggggh!!!!!!!

The government does NOT put £25 in.  It simply doesn't take the £25 it would normally take off you.

In either case, it was your money in the first place.  With a pension, you get to keep it for a while longer.


No, for most individuals, payments are made net of tax. Yes the £25 is in lieu of income tax, but it's not like you'd be able to claim it back otherwise. It's money you owed the state, so not yours in the first place.

Plus you're better off having it earn you money, than doled out to some work shy scally? I don't see why you felt a need to put a negative spin on a positive aspect of pensions. What other means for average people are there to get that £25 back? Anyway you look at it, you'll get bum raped for tax by the govt, there really is little else legally most people can do.

Also, with higher rate payers, if they're able to reduce income to standard tax rates, the income tax they'll pay on their pension will be less than they claimed from the govt to invest.

Seriously, you're splitting hairs here. The main point is do nothing and you'll get nothing
"If you're going through hell, keep going!" - Winston Churchill

Cowards die a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once.



MT2006
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 20:54
You can invest yourself, have lower fees to pay, and avoid tax by placing bonds and shares in an ISA.

Rosc0PColtrane
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:01
Red Man


Wheels


Rosc0PColtrane

Pensions are the most tax efficient way of saving. The government gives you tax relief on your contributions. So if you were to put £100 a month into a pension, the government would put £25 in, if you're a standard rate tax payer. Higher rate tax payers can then claim up the 40% income tax bracket on their self assesment.  You could look at it as an instant return on your investment if you like. So for the time the money is invested, you have between 25% and 40% more working for you.


Agggggggh!!!!!!!

The government does NOT put £25 in.  It simply doesn't take the £25 it would normally take off you.

In either case, it was your money in the first place.  With a pension, you get to keep it for a while longer.


I had this ridiculous explanation from someone in the bank a while ago. She was adamant that i would get £25 extra off them.


Of course it's extra. You'd not see the money otherwise would you? You'd have paid it in income tax as dictated by the law. It's not yours in the first place. Why does it seem like you felt they were pulling a fast one on you?

What about when you sell property? You'll end up with a nasty huge capital gains tax bill on the growth in value when you realise the assets. Diversification is a great idea, don't put all your eggs in one basket

Of course people earn money managing your portfolio!!! They're trained to do so and do it as a full time job. It's like a Haynes Manual enthusiast repairing a car. You may get there in a ham fisted fashion of sorts, but damned sure you'd pay a top mechanic to do the tougher jobs.

What clout in the market place do you think your £100 a month has? Surely it's easy to see that by amalgamating funds, the larger bases of capital give fund managers access a wider variety of stocks, enabling a more diverse and safer fund selection. Are you really going to stay on top of nearly 200 different fund facets to compete with what's on offer to pension fund managers? Or is the 1% charge looking more reasonable now? It's an expertise to trust in. We're not talking derivatives and short and long trading, its traditional funds and fund of funds stuff. An excellent way of getting (in)direct share ownership.

Surely you must realise that banks make money even on your basic current account? They're a business, not a public service, same as any financial service provider. They don't do it for a laugh!!! Everyone is employed to earn money, it's a bit naieve to think otherwise mate.

The shaftings happened 20 years or more ago. Pension reform in the late 1990's put that to bed.  Here's the gist of the Pension Protection Regulations that prevent you getting 'shafted' http://www.pensionprote...g.uk/Pages/homepage.aspx

The Stakeholder scheme was introduced turn of the century. It's a suite of products which offer better terms for less complicated investors. The points include: lower costs, more simple products and easy understanding.

I seriously think peoples concerns are because of a lack of understanding. Most objections are based on outmoded experiences. Pensions are very slick now. In fact, penison companies don't make money for the first 7 years of investment.

I'm not having a pop at you mate, sorry if I seem a little harsh or agitated. What annoys me is people's lack of knowledge which I can see getting them into immense trouble in later life. Is it really worth being that sceptical?

My belief is that financial instruments should be taught as a GCSE subject in school. Much more practical than a lot of other subjects!!

Take it easy mate, any questions, more than happy to answer.

<message edited by Rosc0PColtrane on 20 November 2009 21:10>
"If you're going through hell, keep going!" - Winston Churchill

Cowards die a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once.



Rosc0PColtrane
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:04
Cheshire Cat


You can invest yourself, have lower fees to pay, and avoid tax by placing bonds and shares in an ISA.


A cash ISA will never return enough money. A stocks and shares ISA carries fees and the share's are not tax free, the dividend will still carry a 10% tax credit on the share dividends in the fund. The company who's fund it is will generate a corporation tax bill on any increase in share value.

Stocks and Share's ISA's are tax efficient in that you don't get charged either income tax or capital gains tax on any increase in value of your holding in the fund.

Self investing ISA's I admit I know little about. Though the 10% tax credit on dividends is still applicable. Being limited to £10,200 a year is also a consideration. There's implicit charges in the buy and sell spead of shares too. Bond value largely depends on interest rates and inflation, as well as the stockmarket values. That notwithstanding, share performance over the long term is likely to be better than bonds, which are lower risk.

Pension tax relief pi55es over ISA's.
<message edited by Rosc0PColtrane on 20 November 2009 21:07>
"If you're going through hell, keep going!" - Winston Churchill

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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:08
Varg


Wheels


Run your own pension and invest it yourself.  It doesn't take much knowedge to do a decent job of it.  Much, much cheaper than letting someone else do it.


Right, I thought you were saying investment pension schemes were a bad idea.

Unfortunately I'm pretty clueless about financial stuff, although I'm happy to do basic car maintenance, DIY and plumbing!


So what is your plan for retirement? What would you like to do? How will you pay for it??

If you have no provision, a Stakeholder Pension is a great idea. The paperwork and process surrounding it is so heavily regulated now, it would all be clearly spelt out, including your cancellation rights. As soon as I can afford to, I'm upping my pension contributions.
"If you're going through hell, keep going!" - Winston Churchill

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tuc biscuit
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:11
I expect nothing by the time I reach retirement age from the government.

For myself I am making other arrangments, stockpiling of various assets to be offloaded at a later date.

In general I think as bad as pensions are now, they will get worse and people will get them later in future.
I wish I was more attractive like Dagless.

Varg
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:14
Rosc0PColtrane


So what is your plan for retirement? What would you like to do? How will you pay for it??



I have a pension.
It's a private scheme my last employer set up for me and I pay into it.
When I say clueless I mean that's about as much as I can manage.
I'm not about to start managing my own investments because I'd probably make a mess of it.



Dav
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:15
I have numerous (academic and trade) skills I will utilise and don't wish to retire, its bad for your health lol. Will be investing any money I have myself.

A sobering thought the more you earn and thus contribute the less you'll get back in the future imo as has been stated it'll go the means tested route at some point. Don't ever work always claim/commit crime etc. etc. sponge and you'll get a pension, reduced bills, no tax and free care if/when you need it, what a fcuked up system lol.

PAGAN
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Re:Retirement..... - 20 November 2009 21:21
I've watched my dad loathe his retirement and wish he could still work so I stick to my original post in that I want work until I die,that is my plan for retirement and the prospect of doing this does not upset me in any way.
 
 
<message edited by PAGAN on 20 November 2009 21:43>
No biggie like, there are a lot worse things for you than using steroids, I mean I probably shouldn't have been smoking crack or getting into bar fights at your age TBH  - drab4


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