anyone done a closed book law exam?

If you have, can you tell me how on earth you managed to recall all the case names, outcomes and dates?

I am doing an LLB now in addition to my maths degree (well, when I say now, it doesnt start for 6 months, but I have got advanced copies of the reading materials and am studying them now).

I am a little worried about the amount of memory recall needed.

Thanks.

http://rightyrecomp.blogspot.com/
  
 

 

 

Did it at degree level. Mind Maps (book by Tony Buzan) helps. The name is important but don't worry too much about the dates. Being able to recall the precedent set and the reasoning of the judges is more important.

I can't remember!

What's your motivation for studying law?  What would you like to use the LLB for afterwards?

Yep I have two law degrees, an LLB and LLM and I am currently studying for the entrance exams to the law society, so suffice it to say I am nearly a pro at doing law exams now...

As you say yourself, a lot of it is down to memory. I find half the battle is remembering the sheer volume of cases and the principles that go with it (the other half is being able to intelligently apply those principles to the question asked - law examiners HATE people who write 'all you know about X' type answers).

I find as part of my revision I just write out a big list of all the important cases for each topic, and a word or two of the principles that those cases established beside each. Eventually I will start to just write out the list of cases, and I will find that I will have remembered the relevant principle for each without needing to write it down. I will look over these lists religiously before the exam, and as soon as I am inside the exam and given any piece of paper that I can write on, I will write down as much of the lists as I can remember. Once I have the cases down on paper, the principles from each will come to me automatically, and I will be able to formulate a good answer based on this.

One tip, very little marks if any are awarded for remembering the exact dates of cases. In fact in my experience you don't even need to put down the full name of the case, a lot of the time just the name of the plaintiff will suffice. And even if you're in the exam and you remember the principle established by a certain case, but you just can't remember the name of the case, writing down the principle anyway will still yield good marks.

As for doing an LLB at the same time as a maths degree...are you some sort of masochist?!

JOURNAL
 
I'm tougher than leather, I'm smoother than suede,
Always never broke 'cos I'm usually paid.

Righty I need this too haha !! 

I have my law module exam in May and I haven't done any work so far so its going to be a case of cram from next week onwards! 

Thanks a million for that info Kane, thats top notch advice!

Exactly what CK said!

Start with a list of cases for each topic.
Expand with a couple of key words by each case.
Remember the list and write it down as soon as allowed to in the exam.
I also try to remember the first letter of all the cases for a given topic in as logical order as possible, i.e. a word if they make one. Then, if i forget the cases but have the first letter I usually remember having gone over the subject so many times. Plus, in terms of the principle, by the time the exams come, you would have looked at the cases or at least a summary quite a few times, so chances are one party name will be enough to jog your memory.

I also revise with mind maps. I read a Tony Buzan book during year one and it helped. I'd never done anything similar (meaning simply writing in essay form or remembering words etc) having come from a art and design/sparky background so if I can figure it out I'm sure you can ;)

The mind maps I make basically have a branch for each principle/step of the topic, then just expand with the final branches being the case name, as, like CK said, the most important part is the principle (then applying it) those are nearest the centre. Each branch is best if it's only one word too so there is less to learn. I first make a detailed one, then another but from memory with less info. I keep doing this until there a very few words on the page. Wait a day or two and see if I can remake the most detailed one. each map only takes about 25mins too. obv the earlier before the exams you start this method, the more effective it is. The idea being if you go over something enough times it sticks.

I think I'm making it sound much harder than it is. Hope that isn't too confusing. If I did I'll scan in a copy of a mind map I made last year if you want to see what I'm talking about. It might not make much sense now but you can have a gander and maybe even apply the technique to maths. (There is an example in the TB book of a mathematician using one to study...)

[CK what area was your LLM in?]

What topics are you covering in the exam JWR? I may as well post the mind map covering the same area if I have one.

What's your reasoning for this righty? I thought you wanted to work in a bank? Qualification/letter collecting isn't the aim of the game. Either way, there are many useful memory techniques, well documented, but they take time to learn. Start with "The Memory Book" by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas. That book has simply transformed my life. After that you can look towards Dominic O'Connor's books, I'm currently reading these and hoping to compete in the UK memory championships next year. Memorising several decks of cards here we come! 

Brett87

[CK what area was your LLM in?]

Commercial! Which is ironic because I'm far more interested in stuff like criminal law and especially jurisprudence. I did my thesis on the implications of natural law jurisprudence when applied to banking and market regulation. It was kinda like putting ice cream on pizza, but got a 2.1 so someone must have liked it!

Really enjoyed doing the masters though!

sillynarbie

Qualification/letter collecting isn't the aim of the game.

If I had unlimited money and I never had to work, I would spend my life accumulating knowledge and getting degrees. I would love that more than anything

JOURNAL
 
I'm tougher than leather, I'm smoother than suede,
Always never broke 'cos I'm usually paid.

CitizenKane

Commercial! Which is ironic because I'm far more interested in stuff like criminal law and especially jurisprudence. I did my thesis on the implications of natural law jurisprudence when applied to banking and market regulation. It was kinda like putting ice cream on pizza, but got a 2.1 so someone must have liked it!

Really enjoyed doing the masters though!

At risk of changing the game of this thread, Commercial! eugh! At least you enjoyed it though.

sillynarbie

Qualification/letter collecting isn't the aim of the game.

CitizenKane

If I had unlimited money and I never had to work, I would spend my life accumulating knowledge and getting degrees. I would love that more than anything

x2
(Thinking of doing a masters myself after the LLB, it'll probably be something to do with history though depending on how next years modules turn out). Get to pick next years options soon, I'm going for jurisprudence, legal history, criminology, and public international. Much prefer these types of law but haven't actually studied the first two yet.

Rightyo what year of your maths degree are you in? and what's made you choose to do law as well? Is it the conversion course you're doing or something like a joint degree?

EDIT: quote formatting was funny.

Brett87

(Thinking of doing a masters myself after the LLB, it'll probably be something to do with history though depending on how next years modules turn out). Get to pick next years options soon, I'm going for jurisprudence, legal history, criminology, and public international. Much prefer these types of law but haven't actually studied the first two yet.

I highly recommend it. Actually I recognise your username from looking at AWG's journal? You're in his class right?

You'll enjoy jurisprudence, it's a lot less rule-based and a lot more philosophical (it basically is the study of the philosophy of law). Like I said I did my thesis in it so if you ever need any tips on natural law in particular, I'm your man!

Apologies for totally hijacking the thread LOL

JOURNAL
 
I'm tougher than leather, I'm smoother than suede,
Always never broke 'cos I'm usually paid.

CitizenKane

I highly recommend it. Actually I recognise your username from looking at AWG's journal? You're in his class right?

You'll enjoy jurisprudence, it's a lot less rule-based and a lot more philosophical (it basically is the study of the philosophy of law). Like I said I did my thesis in it so if you ever need any tips on natural law in particular, I'm your man!

Apologies for totally hijacking the thread LOL

Yep, in his class but still haven't actually met him! Thanks for the offer, I'll be sure to ask/debate about it in the future.

I'm sorry too for the hijacking! Next post will be one of those mind maps I mentioned.

Hey Brett,

Cheers mate I'm covering most of the basic principles its an introduction module for use in the construction industry (Im doing Building Surveying at Uni). 

So at the minute im covering:

Intro to English legal system
Common law
Law Of Contract
Law Of Tort
Law of Nuisance
Rule in Rylands vs Fletcher 
Occupiers Liability
Introduction to Land Law
Easements
Restrictive Covenants

Any information would be fantastic matey my email is JWRoxborough@hotmail.com

All the methods above are being abused!

You're doing an introductory module covering all of the above? In order to get a qualifying law degree you need to study entire modules in Tort/Contract etc.

sillynarbie


You're doing an introductory module covering all of the above? In order to get a qualifying law degree you need to study entire modules in Tort/Contract etc.

I'm guessing it's a law module as part of a non-law degree? My brother studied business and he did a law module as part of it. Covered some basics of contract and company law, and so on.

JOURNAL
 
I'm tougher than leather, I'm smoother than suede,
Always never broke 'cos I'm usually paid.

CitizenKane

sillynarbie


You're doing an introductory module covering all of the above? In order to get a qualifying law degree you need to study entire modules in Tort/Contract etc.

I'm guessing it's a law module as part of a non-law degree? My brother studied business and he did a law module as part of it. Covered some basics of contract and company law, and so on.

 


Ahh, business degrees, that explains it. 

You silly narbie! Your powers of deduction prove you correct, I am doing Building Surveying, just required as part of my degree wrt land law, conveyancing, landlord and tenant etc!

Right, I've scanned in a couple of sheets as an example. I don't think either will be much use to a construction law module if it's anything like the one my mate did alongside his course. But if I get the chance tomorrow I'll type something out for you JWR and send it to your email.


I'd start a module like this. This is contract. With a branch for each topic I will revise in the exam.

Then I'll do one for each topic like I explained earlier. This is a finished version for contractual terms:


Then I'll make a list like this with the main things in a topic:

CONTRACTUAL TERMS
TERM or REPRESENTATION
Timing Routledge v Mackay
Relevance
Importance Bannerman v White
Special Knowledge Dick Bentley Productions v Harold Smith Motors
Amateur Knowledge Oscar Chess v Williams
INCORPORATION
Signature L'estrange v Graucob
Dealings
     Trade practice British Crane Hire Corp
     Implied Smith v Wilson
     Custom
        Law (courts) Shirlaw v Southern Foundries (officious bystander)
        Law (statute) s.12 Quiet possession Rowland v Divall
Express
Parol evidence rule - exception - custom Smith v Wilson
TYPE
Condition - breach (.: over) + damages
Warranty - damages only
Innominate The Hansa Nord

I write in the multi colours btw.
Then I write a list of the minimum I need to learn about any given topic to answer a question, even if it's only enough for a 3rd class mark. Like:

CONTRACTUAL TERMS
L'estrange v Graucob Signature
British Crane Hire Corp Trade
HONG KONG SHIPPING Co LTD Innominate
Oscar Chess v Williams Knowledge amateur
Bannerman v White Importance
Dick Bentley Productions Knowledge Pro innocent misrep
Smith v Wilson Custom
Condition - Breach
Warranty - Damages



I did have a written version to show you but my scanner packed up after the first two scans for some reason. I don't mean for any of this to be patronising although to me it does sound it. I just wanted to write with clarity as I felt the first explanation was ****!



EDIT: sorry about the image sizes. If you click through to imageshack and save them, you should be able to resize them and see each clearly.

Brett....you try to hard!!!

what grade did you get last year? I assumeyou got higher then what I did (3rd)

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Wow mate!! 

I'm a bit blown away, that is going to seriously help me out! 

Cheers again man!

haha, doing it like this takes the effort out of it! if not all the time (viz). As each bit takes 25mins-ish you don't even realise how much work you get done. just keep doing chunks and before you know it...

ended up with 2:2 at 58.5%. I was pleased though because before uni I'd never written much like what is required for law. my first c/w was 40% but last exam was 62% iirc, each piece getting a little better each time until I cracked this method of learning.

Fair enough, I've never been one for revision (or foreward planning for that matter) so never botherd with any of this.

Learnt the entire course in 6 weeks before the exams and did pretty well in them considering, my coursework is what gave me a bad grade, 2 40% a 51% and 60% (oral assesment) exams were all 2:2 and I ended up with 49.3%!!!

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apart from getting confused a bit with contract law i found law pretty easy!

just comprehension and application of ideas.  nothing really complicated

i actually had a lot lower grades when i did sport science then when i did law!  i guess our brains all work diff!

like maths gcse was about my limit.  god knows what anything above that is like.

odog

like maths gcse was about my limit.  god knows what anything above that is like.

I'm actually really interested in maths, but I'm absolutely terrible at it! Would love to have been able to study it at 3rd level, but I barely passed maths in school haha. Is that kinda strange?

JOURNAL
 
I'm tougher than leather, I'm smoother than suede,
Always never broke 'cos I'm usually paid.

you really have to use your brain in maths like nothing else imo!!

guess its natural to some and not to others.

i did get an A in gcse maths but at the time it seems so hard maybe its relative.

CitizenKane

odog

like maths gcse was about my limit.  god knows what anything above that is like.

I'm actually really interested in maths, but I'm absolutely terrible at it! Would love to have been able to study it at 3rd level, but I barely passed maths in school haha. Is that kinda strange?

How can you be terrible at it? It's just logic. I honestly believe anybody can do maths, people just have bad experiences/teachers/don't see "the light" and therefore assume they are bad at it. 

You can make a lot of stuff up. seriously. I used to go into exams knowing literally the basics (i was a lazy fcuker who used to read the nutshells books the night before) and i found that by putting the basic law with standard cases yet backing them up with made up journals i managed to get a 2:1. We used to have competitions to see how many football managers names you could get into the exam...i vividly recall using s.allardyce numerous times and his journals on various subjects! There are that many journals out there that the marker isnt going to know every single one of them therefore they will think you've gone beyond the basic and reward you well. Same with essays to, basic law backed up with numerous (real) journals = 2.1.

sillynarbie


What's your reasoning for this righty? I thought you wanted to work in a bank? Qualification/letter collecting isn't the aim of the game.

After speaking to 40+ bankers, I have realised it is no longer a possibility - distinct or otherwise.

I am in the process of switching employers from the looks of it, with a major payrise and all qualifications current and future paid for, including masters.

I am months ahead of the maths degree study - it is getting boring waiting around now, so I have decided to study for the LLB while also sitting some A levels over the next 12 months, and completing year two of the maths degree.

I got my results yesterday for some of the second year modules - 100% on one, 91% on another (and the 9 lost marks were essentially because my version of unbounded sketches differed from what the examiner was looking for. I also failed to state an equivalence relation conclusion).
I have my group theory assignment done - took about 40 pages of A4 and I am not even allowed to submit it for another month. So, plenty of time to pick up the pace a bit to be honest.

http://rightyrecomp.blogspot.com/
  
 

 

 

minidorian

i vividly recall using s.allardyce numerous times and his journals on various subjects! There are that many journals out there that the marker isnt going to know every single one of them therefore they will think you've gone beyond the basic and reward you well.

LMFAO.

http://rightyrecomp.blogspot.com/
  
 

 

 

rightyho

sillynarbie


What's your reasoning for this righty? I thought you wanted to work in a bank? Qualification/letter collecting isn't the aim of the game.

After speaking to 40+ bankers, I have realised it is no longer a possibility - distinct or otherwise.

I am in the process of switching employers from the looks of it, with a major payrise and all qualifications current and future paid for, including masters.

I am months ahead of the maths degree study - it is getting boring waiting around now, so I have decided to study for the LLB while also sitting some A levels over the next 12 months, and completing year two of the maths degree.

I got my results yesterday for some of the second year modules - 100% on one, 91% on another (and the 9 lost marks were essentially because my version of unbounded sketches differed from what the examiner was looking for. I also failed to state an equivalence relation conclusion).
I have my group theory assignment done - took about 40 pages of A4 and I am not even allowed to submit it for another month. So, plenty of time to pick up the pace a bit to be honest.

That's a shame mate, what did these 40+ bankers say to make you change your mind? It seems a shame to have devoted this much time to a prospective career only to have your hopes dashed now at this late stage?


Good work on the Maths, sounds like things are going really well for you on that front. Shame you can't speed the course up! Sounds like filling your time with law could be a worthwhile thing to do then. Is your plan to go into law now then? A word of warning, once you've tasted the fun and excitement of mathematics, law is going to seem ****ing boring 

Brett87
Rightyo what year of your maths degree are you in? and what's made you choose to do law as well? Is it the conversion course you're doing or something like a joint degree?

Second year mate.
I have a keen interest in law.
I was a criminal court reporter for five years on local and provincial papers.
I have also represented myself many times in small claims court, and I have just settled out of court with a utility supply company after beginning proceedings against them for harassment, by citing Ferguson v British Gas Trading.

My main interest lies, I think, in commercial contract law.
I think it would probably lie in criminal law if there was any money in it, though.

I am doing two separate degrees - BSc (Hons) in Mathematics and the LLB (Hons), plus five A levels.

I will have them all finished in three-and-a-half years, when I am 44.

http://rightyrecomp.blogspot.com/
  
 

 

 

sillynarbie

what did these 40+ bankers say to make you change your mind? It seems a shame to have devoted this much time to a prospective career only to have your hopes dashed now at this late stage?

It was a reality wake-up call/check/moment.
You get out of banking when you are my age. You dont go into it.
Some a couple of years older than me have been made redundant.
Most agreed my personality is too confrontational and likely to be perceived as aggressive to get on in a bank - I want stuff doing yesterday, not in 10 mins time.
Nearly all of them, without being asked, expressed doubts about my ability to work under someone younger (though I dont think this would be a problem, the perception is that it would be).
I was also told that I could get a masters from Oxbridge but my first degree will still count against me because it is not one of the chosen few establishments.
In short, the profession can fcuk off.

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You're bloody bonkers Rightyho....just trying to outdo my PhD I bet

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kitty


You're bloody bonkers Rightyho....just trying to outdo my PhD I bet

For the record - I will never attain a PhD. I wish I could but I will never.
That said, if the lottery ticket turns out to be a good one tonight, I will enrol in a brick uni and stay there forever. That would be perfect - just studying all day, then driving home in the Bentley.

http://rightyrecomp.blogspot.com/
  
 

 

 

I rather have the head for a law degree than a PhD in bollocks (well, that's what mine might as well be in)

Oh yes, to win the lottery would be lovely.....................................

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rightyho

sillynarbie

what did these 40+ bankers say to make you change your mind? It seems a shame to have devoted this much time to a prospective career only to have your hopes dashed now at this late stage?

It was a reality wake-up call/check/moment.
You get out of banking when you are my age. You dont go into it.
Some a couple of years older than me have been made redundant.
Most agreed my personality is too confrontational and likely to be perceived as aggressive to get on in a bank - I want stuff doing yesterday, not in 10 mins time.
Nearly all of them, without being asked, expressed doubts about my ability to work under someone younger (though I dont think this would be a problem, the perception is that it would be).
I was also told that I could get a masters from Oxbridge but my first degree will still count against me because it is not one of the chosen few establishments.
In short, the profession can fcuk off.

I thought you already considered all of the above before focusing on that route? It's a shame the industry is like that but I guess there's not much you can do about it. At least you have a plan B. Is the Maths degree just for fun now then? 

kitty


I rather have the head for law

Law is easy.

In journalism, you use the smallest words possible, to make your information accessible to the lowest common denominator of reader.

In law, you purposely look for a big word where a small one would have done to try to a) confuse third parties b) attempt to justify your £120 an hour c) try to look clever.

In truth, many lawyers are barely literate, as evidenced by the posts on many of the forums for law students.

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Righty i think you collect qualifications, i couldn't even do one that you have lol

sillynarbie

I thought you already considered all of the above before focusing on that route? It's a shame the industry is like that but I guess there's not much you can do about it. At least you have a plan B. Is the Maths degree just for fun now then? 

I had, mate but it seems IB is a rapidly-evolving beast just lately.
In truth, I could get into it - I have a BarCap back door. But I have also been opening doors in other industries related to finance too.
One of my wife's customers is married to a financier who is on £500k basic. He couldn't be more helpful.
The maths degree is a cornerstone of my CV.
I don't know of a single employer who doesn't perk up at the mention of the words.
Even having the interim award from the uni for a percentage of a maths degree opened a huge door last week. I will know by Easter if I am allowed to walk through that door and remain with the "chosen people".

In essence, you get out not what you put in, but what you go and look for and take.
And I am in a taking mood.
I even trained last week as well. Too stiff to do much today.

http://rightyrecomp.blogspot.com/
  
 

 

 

rightyho

kitty


I rather have the head for law

Law is easy.

In journalism, you use the smallest words possible, to make your information accessible to the lowest common denominator of reader.

In law, you purposely look for a big word where a small one would have done to try to a) confuse third parties b) attempt to justify your £120 an hour c) try to look clever.

In truth, many lawyers are barely literate, as evidenced by the posts on many of the forums for law students.

Well good luck with it mate, I admire you're dedication......taken me 4 years and I've not started my MSc dissertation yet!!

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