James' DB Chest Press - Video on Page 3

From the April Muscletalker; http://newsletters.muscletalk.co.uk/1104.aspx
 
*** Dumbbell Chest Press - an Alternative Method ***
By James Collier, MuscleTalk Co-Owner
Dumbbell chest press is both a great mass builder and shaping exercise for the pecs. Most of us like to pile on a lot of weight and bang out a few reps. But is this the most effective method of training for a bodybuilder?
Dumbbell presses are best performed on a small incline bench of about 30°. Make sure the chest is warmed up properly before starting. Begin with a light weight. Hold the dumbbells at the bottom and straighten the arms only to shoulder width apart. The pec-delt tie in is easily worked and after 4-5 reps there is no need to go all the way to the bottom, as this is just taking the emphasis off the main pec area: i.e. the area you're trying to build. So, for the first 5 reps perform from all the way at the bottom to shoulder width straight arms then, on rep 5, bring the dumbbells together at the top and squeeze the pecs as if you are flexing them. Squeeze for 1-2 seconds, hard. Then lower the weight, but only until the elbows are about 120°, i.e. you're only coming down about half way. Then straighten the arms and squeeze at the top as before; repeat until failure.
You want to be aiming for around 15 reps in total (including the first 5 which are not squeezed) with a minimum of 12 reps. If you can do more than 15 reps then great, but you may want to up the weight for the next set. Perform 4 sets. It's the squeezing and the reps which are important not the amount of weight you're using. You'll start the exercise feeling the weight is way too light, but as you start squeezing - and it's crucial that you squeeze hard - you'll soon fail.
Training chest like this is not about the ego, as you'll only be using light dumbbells and people will also think you're not doing the full movement as you're not coming down very far with the dumbbells. However, your pecs will feel a massive pump and you'll certainly have DOMS. Over the weeks you'll develop both mass and shape to the pecs.


Just wondering who uses/has used these, and to what effect?
 

I might just be hard of understanding but the first half of the exercise makes no sense to me. 2nd half is squeeze hard together at the top and only a partial eccentric.. Yeah ???
But the first bit I can't fathom..

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

 

I think the general jist is to do 4-5 full range 'normal' reps and then as you say the remainder are only partials with a squeeze.

Right ok, was the straighten your arms to shoulder width bit that threw me.
Never tried really but I will have a try.
Suppose it takes a little in principal from the old 21's type full reps half reps training style, came out rehashed as matrix training a bit later.

Guy I know with an outstanding chest does a d/bell press but rotates the 'bells on the way up (like he Arnold press) I always think when I see him 'I'm gonner try that next time' but then alway forget to have a go next chest day... Lol

Any ideas how that may be a good movement ?
It seems to work wonders for him.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

 

Strictly speaking it shouldn't as it goes, as the pec major functions to adduct (bring the arms together as per flyes) flex (the 'pressing' component) and internally rotate (thumbs up to thumbs down for example). So when you rotate the DB's you're actually externally, rather than internally, rotating.
 
I suppose you could argue he might 'fly' the DB's a bit more rather than pressing them which might help him use more pec and less delt, but theoretically it's not a movement that 'fits' with the muscles action.

ahh ok thanks for the insight.
on that note though, if you stand with your arms outstretched, with palms facing downwards and rotate your hands externaly so the palms face upwards you can feel the chest muscle contract more.
I was (some years ago) told by an old school pro to rotate my arms at the top of the movement on the d/bell flye so the little fingers of both hands are facing one another and squeeze the contraction at the top of the move.
For the added musclar contraction that the palms up position gives to the chest muscle.
 
Not sure if that makes sense but if you try rotating the hands to palms up with the arms outstretched you will see what i mean...lol
 
 

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

 

Ak_88


Strictly speaking it shouldn't as it goes, as the pec major functions to adduct (bring the arms together as per flyes) flex (the 'pressing' component) and internally rotate (thumbs up to thumbs down for example). So when you rotate the DB's you're actually externally, rather than internally, rotating.

 
i would disagree, while you may have externally rotated, the relatively small amount at the humerous wont have had much effect on the length of pec, but, rotating the BD's to face each other allows the arm to come into a much more adducted position, which takes pec into a shorter position.  it also allows you to 'squeeze' the muscle more, and activates the lower fibres more fully.
 
you missed an action of chest above, its also to extend the shoulder, but im being pedantic there... lol
 
 
Back to the original topic, i regularly use this style of chest training, it helps take the stress off the shoulders and focus entirely on the chest.  the squeeze and getting a maximal contraction at the top is utterly key.  most people dont squeeze hard enough or long enough.  get that right and you will have a chest workout like never before.
 
can often need someone to beast you into doing it properly untill you have done it a few times and fully commited, depends how well you self motivate to put yourself well into pain

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Cool cheers Daz, I'll give this a bash next week, guessing the weight is gonna come down some to compensate!

i can easily do 50kg db press for 12 reps, but if i train this way and get the squeeze right ill be down to say 30-35kg

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This was an interesting read. I am have always been strong working my chest but have never been happy with my overall shape. I have been working hard trying to build up the real center bit of my chest as this is the only bit thats lacking and the real bottom bit. I have been doing lots of decline and close grip bench press but it doesn't seem to be doing alot for me.
 
I wouldn't have thought incline bench press would help with over all shape only build upper chest and where the chest joins the shoulder but I do agree with the squeezing technique it does allow for a good pump of the chest.
 

Ak_88


From the April Muscletalker; http://newsletters.muscletalk.co.uk/1104.aspx

*** Dumbbell Chest Press - an Alternative Method ***
By James Collier, MuscleTalk Co-Owner
Dumbbell chest press is both a great mass builder and shaping exercise for the pecs. Most of us like to pile on a lot of weight and bang out a few reps. But is this the most effective method of training for a bodybuilder?
Dumbbell presses are best performed on a small incline bench of about 30°. Make sure the chest is warmed up properly before starting. Begin with a light weight. Hold the dumbbells at the bottom and straighten the arms only to shoulder width apart. The pec-delt tie in is easily worked and after 4-5 reps there is no need to go all the way to the bottom, as this is just taking the emphasis off the main pec area: i.e. the area you're trying to build. So, for the first 5 reps perform from all the way at the bottom to shoulder width straight arms then, on rep 5, bring the dumbbells together at the top and squeeze the pecs as if you are flexing them. Squeeze for 1-2 seconds, hard. Then lower the weight, but only until the elbows are about 120°, i.e. you're only coming down about half way. Then straighten the arms and squeeze at the top as before; repeat until failure.
You want to be aiming for around 15 reps in total (including the first 5 which are not squeezed) with a minimum of 12 reps. If you can do more than 15 reps then great, but you may want to up the weight for the next set. Perform 4 sets. It's the squeezing and the reps which are important not the amount of weight you're using. You'll start the exercise feeling the weight is way too light, but as you start squeezing - and it's crucial that you squeeze hard - you'll soon fail.
Training chest like this is not about the ego, as you'll only be using light dumbbells and people will also think you're not doing the full movement as you're not coming down very far with the dumbbells. However, your pecs will feel a massive pump and you'll certainly have DOMS. Over the weeks you'll develop both mass and shape to the pecs.


Just wondering who uses/has used these, and to what effect?

ive been using it since I started my journey with James beginning of november and it give a mch better pump/contraction and mind muscle connection with the pecs

Official Muscle-Talk board rep and Sponsored Athlete for Bodybuilding Warehouse

 

My Journal - The road back to the stage prepped by James Collier

I was gonna swing by your journal having read about them in there recently OJay - thanks!
 
The point at which the partials come down to seems a bit ambiguous to me though, in comparison to a full-depth rep, how far are you coming down from a locked out position from reps 6-15?

about 30 degrees flexion in the shoulder, from straight, is the lowest point
 
the 120 in the article doesnt sound right.

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Do you mean extension? Either way, sounds like about 8-10 inches of RoM that way?

no, i mean flexion!
 
30 degrees, i think that drawing you had of scapular plane showed the humerous at 30 degrees.

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hey all,
 
Im going to try this (as said above not happy with my shape i think it could be alot down to genetics but im going to give this ago) BUT can someone justy clarify again the excercise ive got a little confused from the additional posts. Dazc ?

I do this (5 full rom then 10 partial) and really rate it. It's my 3rd chest exercise on chest day. IMO works a charm.

"If you're going through hell, keep going!" - Winston Churchill

Cowards die a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once.

So just to clarify, how low are the db's being lowered on the partial??? A vid would have been good to acompany the article

Its basically like static contraction training then that everyone was raving about back in the day?

WWW.MUSCLETALK.CO.UK 

SJL


So just to clarify, how low are the db's being lowered on the partial??? A vid would have been good to acompany the article

if you were lying on a bench DB's in hand, and humerous parellel to the floor, and take that as zero, 30 degrees up from there would be the lowest point to which you would lower the DB's.  arms straight out in front of you would be 90 degrees.

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Cheers daz!

Hi guys
Thought I'd chip in to answer some of the points although Daz may have cleared some up, I just want to reiterate.
 
The principle is actually in part nicked from a concept Neil Hill uses in Y3T Training.  I've trained with Neil as few times and this was furthered from one of his chest sessions we did.
 
JB - the principle of the first 5 reps is to work the pec-delt tie-in. IMO there's no need to do the full movement here - just the first 75% - as there's no point in squeezing (which is the key to this principle) until you're doing the full movement.  Then, when you squeeze, there's no point in coming down all the way as this defeats the principle of continuous tension.
 
AK - the fists are always in the horizontal position - the same as a normal DB press.
 
The key is the high rep range and the squeeze.  You must have continuous tension and you really must sqeeze each rep as if you were posing your chest on stage.  This is a bodybuilding movement; not a strenght one.  Also, it's not for training long term; do this style for sevral weeks, then go back to heavy or normal training.  This will encourage all types of fibre to be worked.  Or you can do Neil's principle of Y3T and use this in one of the 3 week cycles.
 

James Collier
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dazc


i can easily do 50kg db press for 12 reps, but if i train this way and get the squeeze right ill be down to say 30-35kg

Which is strong!  Guys, when I started this principle I was using the 15kg DBs for about 16-17 reps.  I now struggle with the 27.5kg ones for 5 reps.  Guys, don'et try to copy Daz with his weights as he is strong on chest - stronger than me.  The key is to keep the weight low and do the reps right and in quantity.

James Collier
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I should also add this is ideal for the injured BBer - like me.  It takes stress off the joints and really isolates the pecs.  The incline need only be slight and is, like someone says, for a better position rather than to target 'upper chest'.
 
Really, really squeeze the pecs together with the DBs at arms lengths and hold for 2 second.  3 sets of this = guarenteed DOMS.  I await your feedback!

James Collier
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Tried this today as it appeared on the site just before i trained,
 
Actually pre exhausted with the cables 1st as my chest never gets hit properly.
 
Got a crazy pump, only managed about 8 reps with the 20's maybe doing it wrong!
 
will see the crack tomorow!

 

theITman


Tried this today as it appeared on the site just before i trained,

Actually pre exhausted with the cables 1st as my chest never gets hit properly.

Got a crazy pump, only managed about 8 reps with the 20's maybe doing it wrong!

will see the crack tomorow!

 
sounds like your doing it right mate, you probably just need to lower the weight a little more!!   Its certainly not an ego stroking exercise, because your not going to move big weights if you get the squeeze right!
 
probably gor for 16 or 17 kg next week

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I'm hitting chest on Weds so I'll bring my feedback on thursday!
 
Do you think there's any merit in hitting your initial 5 'normal' reps with a heavier weight James, and then dropping to the 10 squeezey reps? Will have to see where I pitch the initial weight at as my opener is 37.5 for a steady 10 at present.

dazc

theITman


Tried this today as it appeared on the site just before i trained,

Actually pre exhausted with the cables 1st as my chest never gets hit properly.

Got a crazy pump, only managed about 8 reps with the 20's maybe doing it wrong!

will see the crack tomorow!

sounds like your doing it right mate, you probably just need to lower the weight a little more!!   Its certainly not an ego stroking exercise, because your not going to move big weights if you get the squeeze right!

probably gor for 16 or 17 kg next week

 
Will be training chest again wed, as per the other thread, will try again with the lower weight. Today i did this as my 3rd excercise, does it matter where it goes in the workout? Do it for all sets? or just the last one? or doesnt matter? Reps to be aimed for, 12-15?

 

Any chance someone can stick up a video of this technique? I think I'm among quite a few who still don't quite get it.

The way I'm visualising it is;
 
1) 5 normal range reps
2) Remaining 10 reps you only go about 2/3's of the full range, and at the top of each partial rep, you're squeezing both on the way up, and holding that squeeze for 2 seconds at the lockout of each rep.

Ak_88


I'm hitting chest on Weds so I'll bring my feedback on thursday!

Do you think there's any merit in hitting your initial 5 'normal' reps with a heavier weight James, and then dropping to the 10 squeezey reps? Will have to see where I pitch the initial weight at as my opener is 37.5 for a steady 10 at present.

if you get the weight right, you wont need anything heavier for the first 5!  id probably warm up and then try it with 15s to start with, and increase from there, if 15 reps is easy then jump to 20's and so on.
 
i bet you dont get higher than 20kg though, if your squeezing as hard as possible at the top

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I've got a feeling there'll be some humble pie to be eaten in being battered by the 15's! Though it'll make a nice change from having my tie-in sore as buggery the morning after I guess.

wouldnt worry about it, i battered my biceps in the gym this week using nothing heavier than a 10kg DB, and i was down to 3kg ones by the end, and struggling to lift them.  it got some funny looks, but i wouldnt worry about it!

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Thanks for the xtra pointers guys.
will be giving this a go.
 
As asked by ILPE.. if any does or has a vid it would be a great addition to the thread / article.
 

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

 

johnny bravo


Thanks for the xtra pointers guys.
will be giving this a go.

As asked by ILPE.. if any does or has a vid it would be a great addition to the thread / article.

 
i wonr be doing chest untill the end of the week, but if i remember (and remember to take my phone to the gym) ill try get someone to film a set

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nice one Daz, would be great if you could mate.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

 

Daz,
 
Would be great if you did, cheers.

Today i have chest doms!!

 

Ak_88


I'm hitting chest on Weds so I'll bring my feedback on thursday!

Do you think there's any merit in hitting your initial 5 'normal' reps with a heavier weight James, and then dropping to the 10 squeezey reps? Will have to see where I pitch the initial weight at as my opener is 37.5 for a steady 10 at present.

No, because that involves putting the weights down.  Also ... well, by sets two and three ... you'll see!

James Collier
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theITman

Will be training chest again wed, as per the other thread, will try again with the lower weight. Today i did this as my 3rd excercise, does it matter where it goes in the workout? Do it for all sets? or just the last one? or doesnt matter? Reps to be aimed for, 12-15?

I generally do it as the 1st exercise out of three.  Do it for 3 sets in that one exericse. 12 reps min, but more if poss.

James Collier
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