Frankie NY's Mass Building Program

quote:

---

I have the perfect remedy. I lie face down on the floor and have my wife (or girlfriend) sit on my lower back and rock back and forth ever so slightly. It helps with soreness immensely

---

...i always suspected you were a kinky b@stard! [:p]

Jimbo

quote:

---

Originally posted by lil_jimmy

quote:

---

I have the perfect remedy. I lie face down on the floor and have my wife (or girlfriend) sit on my lower back and rock back and forth ever so slightly. It helps with soreness immensely

---

...i always suspected you were a kinky b@stard! [:p]

Jimbo

---

I tried it! It was great. I was so sore after doing deads that this really helped.

However, it did not help when she decided that it would help if she walked on my back and then stabbed me with her stilletos...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frankie NY

Sets and reps? Like I said before, if you want to gain mass you need to stay around 5-6 reps. 4x6, 5x5, and even 5x3 for hardgainers are all good combinations.

---

I am a hard gainer, and I'm 41 years old. Will just 3 reps a set be enough? I know that's what you said, just want to be sure I'm better off doing 5x3 than 4x6 cos it doesn't sound enough.

Thanks again.

Hi Frankie,
I’m new here and I have a question about the routine you outlined on the first page.
How do think it would compare to this 2 day/week routine? Do you see any benefits of one over the other? Thanks

Day 1
Military Press 5x5
Squat 5x5
Chin 5x5

Day2
Deadlift 5x5
Dip 5x5
Row 5x5

Thanks again.

Frankie,

I have been training for a long while now and recently changed my routine as I had been doing the previous one for 12 weeks.

Anyway I changed to 5x5 exactly like the one you originally laid out in this post except on the pull day I used Barbel Curls instead of chins as Curls are my favourite exercise...

Anyway, I have been experiencing lower back probs with Deadlifts and this moved to an upper right back pain and is aggravated. I would describe it as a pain more than just a dull ache actually. I don't think it's normal...

I have booked into see my GP angling for a referral to a sports specialist. So I hope I can get this tomorrow.

The thing is I have Scoliosis (I sound like a broken record keep mentioning this in my posts) and think this is why I get pain which I hope a specialist can confirm.

I was wondering whether it is possible to adjust the Pull and Legs day so that I do a subsitute for Deadlifts and on Legs have a Substitute for Squats?

I know, it is not ideal and I am angry about having to ask because I consider these the 2 most important exercises but I need to work around this problem until I know whats what...

Thanks...

Hi Frankie,
I have decided to give your routine ago as I have been told that my previous routine was too much. Just one question regarding the wide grip overhand chins for pull day, I can do 3sets of 10reps quite easily, so how many reps do you reccomend, do I rep to failure or do I stick to 5x5 sets? If I should stick to 5x5 is there a way of adding extra weight?

Cheers

quote:

---

Originally posted by doe5501

Hi Frankie,
I have decided to give your routine ago as I have been told that my previous routine was too much. Just one question regarding the wide grip overhand chins for pull day, I can do 3sets of 10reps quite easily, so how many reps do you reccomend, do I rep to failure or do I stick to 5x5 sets? If I should stick to 5x5 is there a way of adding extra weight?

Cheers

---

Do 5x5. Get a length of chain and a clip and hang weights off your normal weightlifting belt. Or you can buy a dedicated dipping belt.

Frankie, I'm not a very heavy lifter but I'm getting there, thanks to this program. I'm making great gains with it. I've always avoided using a belt for lifts. even the squat and deadlift. I'm afraid that it would weaken my midsection. I feel a lot of pressure on my lower back doing the standing shoulder press and sometimes when doing B.B. Curl. I don't feel that I need a belt for squat and deadlift. Should I start using one for the standing shoulder press or am I relatively safe if my technique remains good??
Thanks for all the good advice!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ozman

I am a hard gainer, and I'm 41 years old. Will just 3 reps a set be enough? I know that's what you said, just want to be sure I'm better off doing 5x3 than 4x6 cos it doesn't sound enough.

---

I would recommend doing 5x5 or 4x6. You don't want to do 3 rep sets until you've done 5x5 for at least 6 months. Your body won't be ready for such low rep training.

quote:

---

Originally posted by pavilion

Hi Frankie,
I'm new here and I have a question about the routine you outlined on the first page. How do think it would compare to this 2 day/week routine? Do you see any benefits of one over the other?

---

2 day per week routines are fine. Some people find that they make good gains off only training two days a week. When I'm really busy at the gym, I frequently only workout 2 days.

That being said, I think a 3 days split is better for three reasons:

1. It's hard to work everything you want to work in just 2 days.

2. Legs really do deserve their own day. Squatting is so taxing that mixing it in with other major body parts means that you can't devote full effort to them.

3. Inevitably, you end up working biceps and triceps twice one week, which is not best for their growth. Just look at the sample routine you posted as an example. Once a week is enough.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaveH

I was wondering whether it is possible to adjust the Pull and Legs day so that I do a subsitute for Deadlifts and on Legs have a Substitute for Squats?

---

Until you know what the problem is, I wouldn't deadlift, squat, or do any exercise that involves the back, possibility including overhead presses. There's no point in risking a career ending injury.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lars

I feel a lot of pressure on my lower back doing the standing shoulder press and sometimes when doing B.B. Curl. I don't feel that I need a belt for squat and deadlift. Should I start using one for the standing shoulder press or am I relatively safe if my technique remains good??

---

My pleasure Lars. You shouldn't feel more than a little "pressure" in your lower back when doing barbell curls. Sometimes your lower back is tight after having done deadlifts. If it's more than a little, you might be cheating - using body swap and momentum to hoist the barbell. To really hit the biceps, focus on keeping a relative erect torso and squeezing the biceps to lift the weight.

As long as your technique is good, overhead presses shouldn't create any problems for your lower back. To keep the pressure off your lower back be sure to:

- position feet slightly wider than shoulder width
- don't lock your knees, allow them to flex slightly
- don't use any body movement up and down to press the weight

Frankie I need to know what approach is best please. I'm in my 5th week of 5x5 (gaining well), but I read it's better doing progressively heavier warm ups, then one heavy set with your top weight. I've been doing 5 reps 5 sets with full weights.

Is the warm ups a good idea?

I want to check the logic behind it all before I work out tonight, unless you can dismiss it I think it's worth a try anyway?

PauliE:

One work set is not enough volume to make consistent strength and size gains for most people.

Warmup sets are supposed to be just that warmup sets. You want to do enough warm up sets that you are ready to handle your working weight for that workout but not so many warmup sets that you waste energy unnecessarily. 2 warmup sets should be plenty until you start lifting really, really heavy weights, when you'll probably need 3 warmup sets.

The idea of doing 4 warmup sets and only 1 work set is not good unless you are a competitive powerlifter lifting truly monster weights. People that are not in this category and want to do 4 warmup sets and only 1 work set usually chose this path because it's much easier and a lot less work than doing 5 work sets. Stay the course, and you'll reap the rewards.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frankie NY

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaveH

I was wondering whether it is possible to adjust the Pull and Legs day so that I do a subsitute for Deadlifts and on Legs have a Substitute for Squats?

---

Until you know what the problem is, I wouldn't deadlift, squat, or do any exercise that involves the back, possibility including overhead presses. There's no point in risking a career ending injury.

---

Right you are... Thanks I'll do that I was expecting this answer deep down I just needed it to hear it from somewhere else...

Andyman:

So that your posterior chain has a chance to recover, you always want to put PUSH day in the middle of PULL and LEGS. You can do M:Pull, W:Push, F:Legs OR M:Legs, W:Push, F:Pull. If you have PULL and LEGS one right after the other, then you're working your lower back after only 48 hours rest, not enough time.

There's nothing wrong with intense cardio. In general, I think we vastly exaggerate the effects of cardio on muscle gains. I've seen many a football player make great mass gains while still undertaking an intense cardio program. The key is to make sure that you are getting enough calories and carbs when taking into account higher levels of cardio activity. Guys that don't get good muscle gains while doing cardio are those that aren't eating enough or are undertaking extreme levels of endurance cardio.

I see no problem with your cardio program. The only caveat is that I wouldn't do intense cardio the day of or the day after LEGS day. In your case, I would move LEGS to Friday, since you don't do cardio on Friday or Saturday. Your chest and shoulder growth will not be hindered by training on Wednesday at all.

Frankie:

I've read through this post and others relating to it a few times, and I'm still a bit confused about 5x5. How hard should the first two or 3 sets be. Should they be challenging, or should only the last 1 or 2 be challenging? For instance, if I bench 60kg for 8 reps x 2 sets, what weight would I use for 5x5?

Thanks

ap:

All 5 sets should require a fair amount of effort. They should not be easy. In particular, the last 2 sets should require close to your maximum effort when you first begin 5x5. As you increase poundages, the last 2 sets will require your maximum effort, but you will get stronger each week.

If you bench 60kg for 8 reps x 2 sets and those 2 sets require almost all your effort, then you could start at 70 kg. That being said, you may need to raise or lower the weight. The most important thing is not to start to heavy. It's better to go too light for 2-3 weeks than to go too heavy and immediately plateau.

Thanks, much appreciated.

It's a great routine frankie thanks alot I've just started lifting again and i'm using youre 5x5 style powerlifting. I'm not on full force yet because I'm afraid of injures cause of my poor exepiernce with deadlifts etc. You can see my gains in my journal.

Thanks, Steven

Frankie,
Completed day 1 & 2 and doing legs tonight. I was really impressed with both days especiall pull day when I gave my back a good thrashing! Just a couple of questions, push day after doing flat press/ inc db press / shoulder press, I was left feeling as though I needed to do more as it didnt feel asthough my chest and shoulders had been worked hard enough dispite doing 5*5 at maximum weight. This was definatly not the case on pull day, but are there any other exercises which will benifit me if added to day 1 or should I just keep it the same and try to add weight?
Just a quick qu regarding stiff leg deadlifts, I cant bent over very far with out hurting back whilst keeping legs straight, so do I just raise the bar to a comfortable height then lift?

Cheers!

quote:

---

Originally posted by doe5501

Just a couple of questions, push day after doing flat press/ inc db press / shoulder press, I was left feeling as though I needed to do more as it didnt feel as though my chest and shoulders had been worked hard enough dispite doing 5*5 at maximum weight. This was definatly not the case on pull day, but are there any other exercises which will benifit me if added to day 1 or should I just keep it the same and try to add weight?

---

That's the first time anyone's ever said that. Sometimes guys complain that it's too much volume for chest and reduce it to just one chest exercise. I wouldn't go too much by how you feel but rather by increases in strength and the measuring tape. When you work at 5 reps, you don't get a "pump" like you do at 8-12 reps. That might be what you're feeling. But a pump doesn't make you big or strong.

quote:

---

Just a quick qu regarding stiff leg deadlifts, I cant bent over very far with out hurting back whilst keeping legs straight, so do I just raise the bar to a comfortable height then lift?

---

Bend over at least until your back is parallel to the ground or if you wish, as far down as you want to go to get a good stretch. It's only necessary to go to parallel, but you can go deeper if you wish. The important thing is to keep the bar close to your legs as you move up and down. Don't let the bar drift forward.

doe5501:
and dont keep your legs straight and knees locked. keep your knees loose so when you bend over your knees allow yourlegs to bend slightly.

FrankieNY i just finished my first 12 weeks on your program and might i say that i am very happy with the results, i just have two questions to ask you do i do the sams routine wheen i get back to the gym or should i mix it up a little, and my second question is im having to take about 3 weeks off from working out cause i went home for christmas and i dont have a gym to go to, shoiuld i keep up on my diet and run or should i just relax , i just have to say thank you for the help you have given me in the past my deadlifts repping weight has gone up over 1 hundred lbs and so has my squats, my bench didint go up as much but it went up alot

Crazyhorse:

Those are fantastic gains! Congratulations! You should make a separate post in the Bodybuilding Routines section called "My 5x5 Results" or something like that and share your experience. Many people would be very interested.

It's a good idea to change your routine somewhat from cycle to cycle, but you don't have to change every exercise. Just change a few exercises or those where you feel like you have plateaued in particular.

3 weeks off from lifting is not going to hurt you at all. I'd continue with your cardio 2-3 times a week. Keep your protein intake the same or higher, but reduce your carbs some. Since you're not going to be working out, you don't need as many carbs. Enjoy your vacation!

Frankie, hoping you can help.

I have been doing the following routine for a little over three months, i've just had two weeks off sick, i'm better now and feel I need to change my routine somewhat.

This is what I have been doing:

PULL
4x6 Bent Over DB Rows
4x6 Pull ups
4x6 BB Curls


PUSH
4x6 DB Bench Press
4x6 Shoulder Press
4x6 Weighted Dips


Legs
4x8 Front Squat
4x8 SLDL
Ab work


I have made consistent gains in strength, although have only put on a little mass (I can't see much change in my appearance). My strength gains are now getting slowler which is why I think I need a shake up.

Could you recommend a new routine I should now move on to?

Many thanks for any help.

Crazyhorse:
Congratulations on you results. Did you gain much fat over the 12 weeks. I'm not a big guy(166lbs) and I'm on about week 7 doing 5X5 . I'm delighted with my strength gains and I've put on about 12-14lbs bodyweight. Problem is that my belly has grown. I've been eating 3000 to 3500 calories per day. I feel like I'm putting on too much fat and my stomach is starting to look it. Did you take in a massive excess of calories during the 12 weeks? Sometimes I was feeling bloated and just eating to consume calories where I really didn't want to. Any dietary advice is welcome??

PdB:

You should change up your routine a little every cycle. Here's what I would do for your next cycle:

PULL
Deadlifts 5x5
Bent Over Barbell Rows 5x5
Wide Grip Chins 5x5
Dumbbell Curls 2x5 (optional)

PUSH
Incline Barbell Bench Press 5x5
Shoulder Presses 5x5 (use a barbell if you used dumbbells your last cycle and vice versa)
Close Grip Bench Press 5x5

Legs
Back Squats 5x5
SLDLs 5x5
Calf Raises 3x12 (optional)
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Leg Raises 3x12

If you haven't added any bodyweight, take a good look at your diet. Are you eating 5-6 medium sized meals a day? Are you eating enough protein? Are you getting your protein from food or from protein shakes? Preferably food.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lars

I've been eating 3000 to 3500 calories per day. I feel like I'm putting on too much fat and my stomach is starting to look it. Sometimes I was feeling bloated and just eating to consume calories where I really didn't want to.

---

You should eat until you are full and not eat just for the sake of eating when you are bulking. When you bulk, you will always put on some bodyfat around the middle, approximately 2-3 inches in pant size. If you think you've put on too much fat, consider:

1. Are you doing cardio 2-3 times a week?
2. Are you eating too many simple carbs or sugars?
3. Are you eating too many carbs in general?

Frankie, (and anyone else who wants to put in). I'm 3 weeks into my second 12 weeker. and I'm finding an alternative to squats difficult. I've tried doing front squats but the pain the bar gives my delts is too much and I can't get as heavy as I know I can lift. I've tried leg press put I can feel them not working as well. Any suggestions for a good quad exercise? I'm tempted to just go back to squats for the rest of the cycle.

Also I'm doing 4x6 as I seem to have more energy and enthusiasm for it after a long day at work. Tried 5x5 but it seemed like it was dragging on for ages and I held back the intensity to last the extra set. Should I try 5x5 again or can gains be just as good on 4x6 just because it works for me?

I've gained more in the past 16 weeks than in the past 18months by the way!

lars i gained a little bodyfat but that is to be expected with a bulking routine i went up about 2 pant sizes , i took in about 3000 to 3500 calories , i experimented with my calories i tryed 2500 for about a month and found out that it wasnt enough so i up them a little and i keep on doing this untill i started to put on mass and as little fat as possible, i did cardio 3 times a week no more than 30 mins a day on off days, your midsection will grow a little dont worry about that the cardio will take care off most of it and you will be able to loose it when you start to slime down.

FrankiNY , thanks for the support i think alot of the help in strength gains has to come from this being the first time i have ever done a 5x5 routine, and this is the first time i have ever done deadlifts i will post before gains and my after gains i havent maxed out yet so i dont know what that is but i can give my 5x5 repping

Frankie:

Im going to use your routine in the new year, but the problem is I am very weak at chins, so what should I use as a substitute exercise. I train at home and have a power rack, bench, and barbell/dumbells.

Thanks

Blu-eyez

Why did you stop doing back squats? While I may vary my other exercises, I always bench, squat, and deadlift. They are constants in my routine. There's nothing wrong with only doing squats for an extended period of time. You may just want to vary your set and rep scheme a little if you plateau.

4x6 or 5x5 are both fine. If you find that you are really short on time and energy, you could try 3x5 and see if you gain on just 3 work sets. Some people can gain strength and size on 3x5; others gain only strength but little size. You'll have to experiment to find out what works best for you.

I'm glad to hear that your results are so good!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ap

I'm going to use your routine in the new year, but the problem is I am very weak at chins, so what should I use as a substitute exercise. I train at home and have a power rack, bench, and barbell/dumbells.

---

You've got the perfect setup for hardcore training. Unfortunately, there's no substitute for chins, and in my opinion, no exercise you can do to help you get better at chins than chins. I've seen guys add 40 pounds to their lat pulldowns over a period of time only to be able to do the same number of chins as before they added the 40 pounds. In other words, I don't believe lat pulldowns help.

Just stick with them, and you'll get better. Even if you can only do 5 sets of 1 rep, that's fine. If you stick with them, within a year you can be doing chins with a 30 pound dumbbell or more hanging from your waist.

Frankie, I only took the back squats out as I thought I was meant to change everything a little every 12 weeks, ie flat dumbell press to flat bar press etc. Didn't realise back squats where meant to be a constant but I love them (in a weird way!) and I'll have them back in my routine straight away.

Frankie,

Thanks for the routine suggestion.

Why do you recommend incline barbell bench press as opposed to flat?

I would like to carry on with the front squats - as I want bigger quads and not a bigger arse...

I'm eating a reasonable amount of food, but it varies a lot. I take a lot of care to get a decent amount of sleep and I train hard.. - and I eat a lot of meat - but it's not really split into 5-6 small meals a day containing carbs, protein and veg. Often it is difficult to organise such a perfect diet whilst day to day living.

Hey Frankie got a ? for ya. I'm gonna get back to training after approx. 1yr. off. Prior to the break i had 3yrs. of training under my belt. The ? is this would you reccomend this routine for someone getting back into the swing of things perse? Thanks for any info.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blu-eyez

Frankie, I only took the back squats out as I thought I was meant to change everything a little every 12 weeks, ie flat dumbell press to flat bar press etc. Didn't realise back squats where meant to be a constant but I love them (in a weird way!) and I'll have them back in my routine straight away.

---

It's not that you HAVE TO change your exercises every cycle. You can if you wish or feel you need to. As long as your legs are growing and your poundages are going up, you can continue to do back squats. Once in a while, it's just nice to do front squats to mix things up, but you don't have to.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PdB

Why do you recommend incline barbell bench press as opposed to flat?

---

No particular reason. You can do inclines if you feel like you need or want a change. If your chest is growing and your poundages are going up, then I would stick with flats.

quote:

---

I would like to carry on with the front squats - as I want bigger quads and not a bigger arse

---

Back squats will not give you a big "arse" (I assume this word means butt) unless you use a wide stance. If you keep a shoulder width stance and only go down to parallel your "arse" will be fine.

quote:

---

Often it is difficult to organise such a perfect diet whilst day to day living.

---

I know it's hard, but do the best you can. Cooking ahead on the weekends and planning out your meals a week in advance will make it easier.