Frankie NY's Mass Building Program

NOTICE: THIS ROUTINE ASSUMES AT LEAST 6 MONTHS OF BREAK IN TRAINING FOR BEGINNERS.

THIS ROUTINE IS INTENDED FOR THE NATURAL TRAINER ONLY

Several of you have asked me for a good mass building program, so here it is. I've used this routine with many natural bodybuilders as well as professional football players looking to add some bulk in the offseason.

How many days a week? I've seen the best results with natural bodybuilders in a bulking phase on 3 days a week, training each exercise once a week. I know almost every program in the magazines you guys read will say 4 days a week, training each muscle twice a week, but my experience with hundreds of guys is that guys that train 4 days a week never make the same gains as the ones that train 3 days a week. If you train a muscle hard enough, you just can't recover in less than 6-7 days. Just because the soreness is gone doesn't mean that the muscle is recovered. 4 and 5 day splits are fine for cutting phases but not for bulking.

How to split things up? Push, pull, and legs seems to be the best split for most guys. Working shoulders with legs doesn't yield good growth in the shoulders because they end up overtrained. On push shoulders get hammered, on pull shoulders get hammered, and even working legs shoulders get hit.

Sets and reps? Like I said before, if you want to gain mass you need to stay around 5-6 reps. 4x6 or 5x5 are both good combinations. In my experience the guys that make better gains on 8-12 reps are advanced bodybuilders or are on drugs. I don't care if you feel a pump or a burn or whatever. That has nothing to do with size or strength, only momentarily pumping blood into a muscle.

Increasing your weights? You need to add weights to the bar every workout if you can. Going up in 2 ½ or 5 pound increments is great. You won't be able to add more weight each week, but that needs to be your mentality. Don't think about anything else but adding weight.

How long to stay on a routine? My experience is that around 8-12 weeks is best. Some guys say that after 6-8 weeks they've hit a plateau and need to change their routine. That's hogwash. Most of the time they've hit a plateau because they're not training hard enough or because they've added in more exercises than what's in my program and hinder their recovery.

DAY 1 – PULL

Deadlifts or Power Cleans
Barbell Rows, Dumbbell Rows, or Wide Grip Chins
Barbell Curls, Close Grip Underhand Chins, or Hammer Curls

DAY 2 – PUSH

Incline or Flat Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
Barbell or Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Tricep Dips or Close Grip Bench Press

DAY 3 – LEGS

Front or Back Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Calf Raises (3x12) - only if a seriously lagging bodypart
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Hanging Leg Raises (3x12)

Great post guys...I knew that I would be the first person to find this as I have been waiting....

One question...when you say 5x5 do you mean the traditional 5x5 (5 sets of 5 reps using the same weight, when you get 5 on fifth set move the weight up) or, 5 sets of 5 reps to failure?

Also, wouldn't 10 sets for chest be a little much? I was thinking BB Bench 5x5, Military Press 5x5, Close Grip/Skulls 5x5.

What do you think?

Thanks Guys!

Sounds great, i think this could be for me.

Although after 12 weeks what would you suggest? taking a month off? then starting a similar routine?

B-R

You don't take a month off. You change your routine...

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Originally posted by Big-Ron

Although after 12 weeks what would you suggest? taking a month off? then starting a similar routine?

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After 12 weeks, take one week off. Continue doing cardio but don't touch a weight. Your body needs the time to completely recuperate.

Then, begin your next 12 week cycle. If you did deadlifts in cycle 1, do powercleans in cycle 2. If you did flat barbell bench, do incline barbell bench. If you did back squats, do front squats. If you did barbell overhead presses, then do dumbbell overhead presses. The idea is to stick with heavy compounds. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE OR ADD IN ANY ISOLATION MOVEMENTS. DO NOT INCREASE REPS OR SETS.

Natural bodybuilders need to stay on a bulking program like this for about 4 or 5 years before they should even think about a cutting cycle or competing.

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Originally posted by Mighty306

One question...when you say 5x5 do you mean the traditional 5x5 (5 sets of 5 reps using the same weight, when you get 5 on fifth set move the weight up) or, 5 sets of 5 reps to failure?

Also, wouldn't 10 sets for chest be a little much? I was thinking BB Bench 5x5, Military Press 5x5, Close Grip/Skulls 5x5.

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5 sets of 5 reps with the same weight.

10 sets for chest isn't too much. I like to see a second movement added in like dumbbells or dips because for some guys benches make their chests grow and for others it's less effective. But I would never skip benches all together. They're too important for overall upper body strength and thickness.

Forget about close grips benches or skulls. I don't know what you mean by "skulls", but I assume they are for triceps. Heavy benches and overhead presses are all you need for huge triceps. After two chest movements and one shoulder movement, your triceps should be so wasted that you couldn't do a triceps exercise even if you wanted to.

Umm. I am just starting back to working out, should I try this or my routine in my Journal?

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=57338

Sly, I think this is much better than what's in your journal.

I'll be doing something similar to what Johnny posted in a few weeks.

Great post mate and welcome to MT

How much cardio would you recommend weekly? Bulking phase.

Seriously thinking of switching to this (J's version) because I'd like to take up boxing too and it would give me the time I don't have on my four day split.

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

After 12 weeks, take one week off. Continue doing cardio but don't touch a weight. Your body needs the time to completely recuperate.

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One more thing on the 5x5.

Do you keep doing sets until you hit the '25 rep total'?

For example the first three sets I get my five reps. The forth set I only manage 3 reps, so I rest a few seconds then force out the other two. Then move onto my fifth set?

Miki:

If you can only get 3 reps on the 4th set, then that's fine. Rest for 3-5 minutes and do your 5th set. If you don't get atleast 8 reps in total on your last two sets, then lower the weight 5-10 pounds. If you can get 8 or 9 reps on the last two sets, then stay at that same weight. Once you can do 10 reps in total on your last two sets, then increase the weight 5 pounds the next session.

I would do cardio at least 2 times a week and up to 3 for 30-35 minutes. When you're bulking, don't be too concerned about your body fat %. Cardio is important just to make sure your heart is healthy.

Do you mean for the barbell rows:
Bent over rows,
or
Upright rows.

If you mean bent over I would do them with a under-hand grip.

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Originally posted by JohnOvManchester

Do you mean for the barbell rows: Bent over rows, or Upright rows.

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Bent over rows for building thick lats. Upright rows are a complete waste of time.

A very solid routine there, i like it.
However personally i would prefer dips to the barbell press, though i can understand why people would want to do barbell presses. Maybe they could dip one cycle and press the next?
I like j5's idea of using chins so that the biceps get contraction as i am not a big fan of curls, though i don't know whether i could fit deadlifts, chins and rows into one session![xx(]
AL

I like this routine alot, what sort of rest period between sets and movements would you recommend?

I'm seriously considering this, but currently I'm training on my own and might find it hard to keep up the intensity!

Would anyone put any calves into the routine, maybe instead of Abs on the leg day?

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Originally posted by mindle

Would anyone put any calves into the routine, maybe instead of Abs on the leg day?

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Your calves will be built with squats and deads etc, you can worry about details later.
AL

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Originally posted by Chez

I like this routine alot, what sort of rest period between sets and movements would you recommend?

I'm seriously considering this, but currently I'm training on my own and might find it hard to keep up the intensity!

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What "movements would you recommend"? I don't understand your question. All the movements I recommend are in the post. ???

You should rest between 2 and 5 minutes but it depends. You should rest long enough until you are physically and mentally ready for the next set. For example, heavy squats can leave you on the verge of fainting. I almost always rest 4-5 minutes between sets with squats. But no matter how hard I hit overhead presses or bent over rows, I'm usually ready in about 2 minutes.

Don't be one of these guys with a stopwatch who does each set after exactly so many minutes. Focus on what's important - doing the next set.

One last thing. If you do 5x5, you may find that you need to rest longer between sets as you move from set to set.

I'm glad you are considering this routine. Don't be afraid of the intensity. With weight lifting you get out of it what you put in to it. I've seen guys add 100 pounds to their squat in a year. I've also seen guys who are using the same weights now as they were a year ago. Which one do you want to be?

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quote:
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Originally posted by JohnOvManchester

Do you mean for the barbell rows: Bent over rows, or Upright rows.
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Bent over rows for building thick lats. Upright rows are a complete waste of time.

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Thats not raelly what I was getting at, I was meaning IMO if you did mean bent over barbell rows, I would do them with a underhand grip as this would help the lats and biceps (due to the lack of curls).
If you have never done bent over barbell rows with a underhand grip, give them a try, you can really feel it.

Frankie-

So do you recommend a 5x5 approach to all exercises within this routine? (including curls) Or, should accessory movements such as curls be limited to 3x6, etc.?

Also, I see your point in saying that the chest may not receive enough stimulation from just 5x5 bench. However, is it possible that the addition of 5x5 of incline bench on top of flat bench may hinder strength progress or even lead to overtraining? Or again, should the second movement be limited to a ahoter 3x6, etc.?

Thanks for the helpful insight.

Do all exercises with 5x5. You won't overtrain blasting your chest with 10 sets a week. The only caveat is not to do two barbell or two dumbbell exercises. If you barbell flat bench, do dumbbell incline presses. If you barbell incline bench, do dumbbell flat presses. Some peope grow better from barbells, some from dumbbells. That's why I recommend to do both.

Dips are also awesome for chest as well as shoulders and triceps.

JohnnyFive suggested underhand chins as an alternative to doing barbell curls. This is a very good idea. I always recommend that guys who have a hard time getting their biceps to grow do underhand chins. The only problem is that a lot of guys find that after doing heavy deadlifts and barbell rows their grips don't have much left to do underhand chins. Either way is fine.

If i wanted to do dips instead of one of the pressing movements for chest would I substitute them for the flat or the incline press?

I was thinking of substituting them for the incline pesses

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Originally posted by mindle

If i wanted to do dips instead of one of the pressing movements for chest would I substitute them for the flat or the incline press?

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Either way is fine. It won't make much difference.

hiya just wanted to ask how many sets and reps for each exercise respectively and if it is a good idea to add add an ab exercise for monday and also friday?

really appreciate any help
thanks

As far as sets and reps go, just like I said in my original post - 5x5 or 4x6. Or if you're a hard, hard gainer, 5x3.

I like to train abs just as hard as any other muscle once a week for around 10-12 reps. Working abs 3x a week isn't necessary. Don't forget that your abs get hit when you squat and deadlift, even if you don't feel it.

In a bulking phase, you don't want to work abs too much though because they will grow. But you need them to be strong enough so as not to be a weak point for squatting and deadlifting. What makes your abs more defined is of course lowering your bodyfat through diet and cardio.

On your 5x5. Are deadlifts still 5x5?

Out of interest, why not train abs 5x5?

Do some muscles respond better to higher rep training than others?

M,

quote:

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

As far as sets and reps go, just like I said in my original post - 5x5 or 4x6. Or if you're a hard, hard gainer, 5x3.

I like to train abs just as hard as any other muscle once a week for around 10-12 reps. Working abs 3x a week isn't necessary. Don't forget that your abs get hit when you squat and deadlift, even if you don't feel it.

In a bulking phase, you don't want to work abs too much though because they will grow. But you need them to be strong enough so as not to be a weak point for squatting and deadlifting. What makes your abs more defined is of course lowering your bodyfat through diet and cardio.

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Don't forget that your abs get hit when you squat and deadlift, even if you don't feel it.

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Tell my body that! I get wicked ab DOMS in my abs after deadlifting. Then again, I get wicked DOMS everywhere...[B)]

Well, I have now completed one week of this routine.

I'm doing 4x6 and have substituted bb bench press for weighted dips.

I've really enjoyed this routine, and have fantastic doms (you know the constant ache in your lats and middle back, triceps feeling really tender, and the strike of pain in your pecs every time you take a step down a flight of stairs! ).

I was a little sceptical about my tris getting done, as I used to do a similiar routine to "Pull day" anyway, but I included narrow dips and skulls. I shouldn't have worried, the doms have led me to believe that they've had enough stimulus.

My bis never feel like they're being done though, but they haven't for ages to be honest. When I work my back, i'm pretty good and isolating and contracting my back muscles to make sure that it IS my back that's taking most of the load, and my arms just end up being 'hooks' if you know what I mean, without taking much of the force. This seems to result in my arms never feeling like they're being done. Yeah, I know it's not all about feeling, and I'm trusting that they're 'getting it' too. -- The same story goes for my calves.

Anyway - just wanted to say cheers Frankie for a very enjoyable and well thought out routine. (Lets hope it bears some fruit!).

Originally posted by miki
[brOut of interest, why not train abs 5x5?

If you train abs too hard, like 5x5, then you will get a big stomach, which is something you do not want if you are a bodybuilder.

Cheers Frankie,

That makes sense. But I could train them this way until they are of a size I wanted - they still feel quite weak to me - or should I just let the dead lifts, etc make up the extra exercise for them?

M,

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Originally posted by Frankie NY

Originally posted by miki
[brOut of interest, why not train abs 5x5?

If you train abs too hard, like 5x5, then you will get a big stomach, which is something you do not want if you are a bodybuilder.

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Is it ok to do this on consecutive days? like tues, wed, thurs?

Definitely not! You need a day between each workout to recuperate. Sometimes you'll even need to have 2 days off between workouts to recuperate. Plus you should be so sore that you couldn't workout if you wanted to, even though you'd be working different muscles.

This is a great post and im definatly going to change my routine, and im literally about to start now, however i saw this as well and wondered what you might think would be better...

Twice a week:
do several warmup sets before each movement

squat 3x4-6

bench 3x4-6

deadlift 3x4-6

do this for 8 weeks max

Originally I was going to do that first then your one, but I like the sound of both of them...

I have decided to take this routine on:

I will be doing dips rather than flat bench though!
I was also wondering whether to sunstitute bb rows for chins? can't make my mind up!

Would putting shrugs in on back day be okay? - (I Know deads do hit you traps) - but maybe not enough, if so what reps/sets? 5x5?

quote:

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Originally posted by RagingBull

This is a great post and im definatly going to change my routine, and im literally about to start now, however i saw this as well and wondered what you might think would be better...

Twice a week:
do several warmup sets before each movement

squat 3x4-6

bench 3x4-6

deadlift 3x4-6

do this for 8 weeks max

Originally I was going to do that first then your one, but I like the sound of both of them...

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I've seen people use this routine and make good gains from it. I like it because it's relatively short, intense, and hits the three most important movements. What I prefer about a three day split where do you squat, bench, and deadlift on three separate days is that you can really focus on each movement. On the routine above, whatever movements you do 2nd and 3rd will receive less energy.

What I dislike about the routine is doing the same movement twice in one week. You're more likely to reach plateaus this way, which is why I wouldn't stay on this routine for too long, maybe 4-6 weeks.

You could use something like this to take a break from 3 day a week programs or if you only have two days to train.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chez

I have decided to take this routine on:

I will be doing dips rather than flat bench though!
I was also wondering whether to sunstitute bb rows for chins? can't make my mind up!

Would putting shrugs in on back day be okay? - (I Know deads do hit you traps) - but maybe not enough, if so what reps/sets? 5x5?

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I'm glad to hear you're going to try my routine.

You could also do dips and flat bench. Just because you do dips doesn't mean you have to drop flat bench. You don't have to do one incline movement and one flat movement. You could also do two flat movements or two incline movements. Just make sure that you change the exercises in your next 12 week cycle.

Chins are a great back exercise. If you need chinning strength, then by all means do chins. But for adding mass to the lats bent over barbell rows are a far superior exercise. If you already have a very thick upper back and lats, then do chins. If not, do rows.

Shrugs??????? Remember we're focusing on heavy compound movements and not wasting time and energy on isolation exercises for now. Your traps will get hit plenty hard with heavy deadlifts, trust me.

I was sorta searching for a descent routine that not only gave strength gains, but also helped put on mass. In my last 6 months of training I have still put on some size but my strength does not seem to be rising at a pace that I can be happy with. I think I will try this for atleast a month and see what it does... If I enjoy it I'll do a full 12 week cycle. I just have one question...
Should we use this routine like a normal 5x5 strength routine and add weight whenever possible? Like... Atleast add 2 pounds per week. Or should we add weight only when on our 4th and 5th sets we can pump out 7-10 reps when we should only be able to do 5?