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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 10 2006 19:08:38
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Little A
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quote:
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 0:05:11
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DrRick
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Wednesday 10/5
Active recovery from the tweak on Friday - I still had a little stiffness and wrong feeling in the lower back and upper glutes, but not much. So, light squats, concentrating on form and depth, and light bench, concentrating on moving my hands in (Adam opined that I should go in another finger to ring finger on the rings (that sounds suprisingly filthy) and since he is the best presser I train around, I'll take that advice!).
Squat 20x10, 50x10, 60x8, 70x7, 90x8.
Bench 60x10, 80x8, 80x10 (all long paused), 100x3 paused, 110x2 paused, 60x10 explosive positives.
25 minutes on the elliptical, stretches, crunches, home.
The squats felt good - every rep of every set was solid and deep. Very happy indeed. The first set felt awful, with just the bar, but as soon as I got some weight on it it was great - though repping squats to depth is just plain hard, even with stupidly light weights.
The first couple of sets of bench, with the narrower grip, concentrating on arch and keeping the elbows in, felt very odd. Then it suddenly started to feel right, and the remaining sets were very easy. Vegan watched the last one for me, and said it looked solid and about right for width, which'll do me  .
I can't believe I'm calling a paused 110kg double light - I've made some real progress over the last year or so.
After that first set of squats, I've had absolutely no awareness of the tweaked muscles - I think the squatting sorted them out completely. Of course, I may not be able to move tomorrow...
Plan is nothing now until Sunday, when it's back into the usual routine from 10-rep week.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 0:29:49
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tokar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrRick
Wednesday 10/5
Active recovery from the tweak on Friday - I still had a little stiffness and wrong feeling in the lower back and upper glutes, but not much. So, light squats, concentrating on form and depth, and light bench, concentrating on moving my hands in (Adam opined that I should go in another finger to ring finger on the rings (that sounds suprisingly filthy) and since he is the best presser I train around, I'll take that advice!).
On the other hand, I've often thought Adam would do even better if he took his grip out a bit. The fact is, top powerlifters do not use narrow grips. If you're looking to get your 1RM numbers up, bringing your grip in is the last thing you want to do. Shorter stroke = better press.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 19:18:47
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DrRick
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tokar
On the other hand, I've often thought Adam would do even better if he took his grip out a bit. The fact is, top powerlifters do not use narrow grips. If you're looking to get your 1RM numbers up, bringing your grip in is the last thing you want to do. Shorter stroke = better press.
Waaah!
The objective of bringing my grip in was to get my elbows closer in - I didn't feel I could do that at my previous grip. If you're in at the 11ish time on Sunday, I shall seek your advice with great interest...
It seems to me, and perhaps I'm missing something, that if I'm to have my forearms vertical through the lift with wrists above elbows (which I think is important, no?), then the only thing that can have much effect on where my elbows go is my grip width. So, if I'm to bring it a little lower and narrower (which in itself is reducing stroke length), I need it a little narrower.
Of course, as often mentioned before, I know *nothing*...
I think the question is further confused because so much of the advice out there is aimed at shirted lifters, which I don't intend to be. (The same probably applies even more so to squat, with the added complication of different depth requirement and monolifts.)
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 20:05:34
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Rob1985
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Everyones in around 2 this Sunday if you fancy it Rick.
Tokar will be squatting and benching I should imagine. VLs going to show me his new biceps routine.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 20:10:13
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DrRick
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Hmmm.... that's a bit late for me, but I shall see what I can do!
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 20:30:16
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badboy007
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everyone's different with regards to grip, just something you've got to work out yourself,
yes a wider grip will shorten the stroke, but there's many other factors that come into play- benching style- elbows in or elbows out, relative chest/tricep strength, etc
there have been a number of top powerlifters with very narrow grips, ie, john neighbour, first britain to bench press 600lbs (although shirted, the shirts then were nothing compared to todays)... anthony clarke etc etc... not as simple as saying, 'wider is better'
its a bit like the wide/narrow squat debate, i think alot of the time its best to just stick with something and train it hard and consistent, switching styles and grips means may lead to inconsistency and therefore lack of progress.
Just playing devils advocate 
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 11 2006 22:19:03
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tokar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: badboy007
everyone's different with regards to grip, just something you've got to work out yourself,
yes a wider grip will shorten the stroke, but there's many other factors that come into play- benching style- elbows in or elbows out, relative chest/tricep strength, etc
there have been a number of top powerlifters with very narrow grips, ie, john neighbour, first britain to bench press 600lbs (although shirted, the shirts then were nothing compared to todays)... anthony clarke etc etc... not as simple as saying, 'wider is better'
its a bit like the wide/narrow squat debate, i think alot of the time its best to just stick with something and train it hard and consistent, switching styles and grips means may lead to inconsistency and therefore lack of progress.
Just playing devils advocate
You're right of course, there are a lot of factors - though to be fair, Anthony Clarke actually benched with a reverse grip so I don't know how good an example is.
Rick, I see your point about keeping the elbows in but you can tuck your elbows without having a narrow stance - it's just not the same thing. It's simply a matter of watching where your elbows go, however wide your grip is.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 12 2006 12:56:36
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veganlifter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob1985
Everyones in around 2 this Sunday if you fancy it Rick.
Tokar will be squatting and benching I should imagine. VLs going to show me his new biceps routine.
you mean 21s? Burn baby burn!
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 12 2006 18:32:06
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Galloot
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrRick
repping squats to depth is just plain hard, even with stupidly light weights.
Oh yes, deep joy, throbbing glutes and aching lumbar regions. What a cracking sport we're playing at 
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 12 2006 19:35:58
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DrRick
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tokar
Rick, I see your point about keeping the elbows in but you can tuck your elbows without having a narrow stance - it's just not the same thing. It's simply a matter of watching where your elbows go, however wide your grip is.
I really don't like the idea of having my elbows not under my wrists at the bottom - it makes me nervous indeed!
I shall see how this four-week cycle goes at this grip, I think, and take lots of advice... it's not like I'm going Westside narrow. The last grip felt pretty good to me, but this one feels OK too.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 13 2006 0:09:22
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tokar
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Most Westsiders bench with a fairly wide grip I think....
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 13 2006 15:02:01
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DrRick
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You're probably right. I was basing that comment on one of the few articles I could find in a spare google half-hour talking about benching grip, http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_115b600 . His talk of three different grips in use during training, the *widest* of which was little finger on rings, may only apply to assistance work, I suppose - it's not clear to me.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 14 2006 2:23:35
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Olly Jackson
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I havent read that article in a while, but you have to remember that WSB benching is massively tricep dominant. Hence why they can get so much out of their shirts. Much of the training they do is with grips closer than their comp form to get the triceps stronger.
I dont think ive ever seen you bench (surprising I know) but I am of the opinion that most people try and go too wide too soon. Wider doesn't always mean stronger. For a long long time I was stronger with a very narrow grip. Im not far off it now.
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 14 2006 16:52:28
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DrRick
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Sunday 14/5
Back feels good, so back on the regular cycle at the start: "ten-rep" week. This cycle's bench target is to keep working on a more powerliftery bench form and to push the first working set for as many reps as possible at my usual weight - then, hopefully, raise the weight next cycle.
Pulldowns 70x15 warming up for the bench.
Bench 60x12, 90x12 PB, 105x1 paused, 115x3 PB, 90x11+f.
Incline DB bench 37.5x9+f, 9+f.
EZ curl 20x12, 35x10, 40x10.
Preacher curl 15x10,10.
25 minutes of the elliptical, stretch and crunch. Knees feel amazing, back feels healed.
I was absolutely delighted with the bench - the 12 with 90 was a two-rep PB at that weight and my main target, and I'd planned on the 115 being a double, if I could. In fact it felt very light, and I could certainly have got another rep and probably more. My triceps were shot after bench, which is probably why the last rep on each set of inclines stalled half-way up.
It wasn't until I was doing my curls that I noticed that the two olympic bars on the gym were, in one case, on the squat rack, and in the other, broken and leaning on the wall. So I'd done the bench with a thicker bar with the rings in the wrong place - my grip must have been nearly a hand's width narrower on each side than I'd intended. No wonder my tris were fried!
I asked the boys (Adam, Rob1985, Olly, Vegan) when they got in if they thought the bars were different weights (wondering if it'd been a light bar), and they said they thought they weren't any *heavier* - so I guess those weights are all OK .
So, an extremely strong (for me) day unexpectedly on narrow-grip bench, which tells me five things:
1. I need to keep looking at grip - I don't want to be that narrow, but definitely a bit narrower than I was two months ago (when I was on max legal).
2. My bench is getting stronger very fast right now, probably not least because of getting some arching and leg drive plus more tri involvement.
3. An awful lot of strength is in the mind - if I'd known I was narrow gripping, I would probably not have hit those weights.
4., and
5. I can only actually think of three things.
< Message edited by DrRick -- May 14 2006 16:53:36 >
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 14 2006 16:58:08
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Rob1985
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lol
Good work mate - if anything the thicker bar will be heavier if it is any different, but general concensus seems its the same. Keep that bench flying - it'd be good if you can beat Coach Tokar in the next few months
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RE: DrRick's path to 1000lbs and less lard - May 14 2006 18:48:43
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tokar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob1985
lol
Good work mate - if anything the thicker bar will be heavier if it is any different, but general concensus seems its the same. Keep that bench flying - it'd be good if you can beat Coach Tokar in the next few months
Never! 140 at the Lancs & District in 6 weeks!
And if he does get close I'll just pull the bodyweight excuse on him.
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SQ 190 (220) BP 140 (150) DL 255 (272.5)
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