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Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 15:21:13
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BencherRdg
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Theyve always been a weak point for me, but been on with a new routine and new diet since early December 07. Things are going pretty well, my back is taking shape, thickness, width (but never had a problem with width anyway). Even my bi's and tri's are geting there even though still under 16" arm, traps starting to grow now i have thrown some DB shrugs in there. Legs have always been a strong point for me and even chest is starting to p1ss me off less now ive ditched BB flat bench for DB's
Its my shoulders Ive having most problems develpomg currently and Im after a bit of advice if possible?
Yeah ive had and do have shoulder probs but thing is my military press is slowly incresing i use microweights every couple of weeks to up the weight, Im lifting as hard as i can whilst keeping form but I'm wondering if I'm doing enough. I lack overall mass on the delts and because the rest of me is growing i feel inferior and look stupid with such small shoulders compared to rest of me.
My routine:
DB Flat Bench 12,10,8 6
Cable Row 12,10,8,6
Inc DB Bench 12,10,8,6
T Bar Row 12,10,8,6
DB Shrug 12,12,12
Squat 12,10,8,6
45deg Leg Press 8,8,8
Ham Curl 3x20
EZ Curl 12,10,8
DB seated alt curl 12,10,8
Weighted Chins 10,10,10
CG lat pull dow 12,10,8
Standing Military Press, 12,10,8,6
Seated lat raises 3x10-12
SLDL 12,10,8,6
Back ext 12,10,8,6
leg ext 3x20
Skulls 12,10,8
Rope push down 12,10,8
1. I'm wondering if i should add some seated DB ohp's after the militay presses, or maybe do the BB ohp seated/and or do the DB too?
2. should i maybe do the presses on the 3rd day before chins/pulldows (even though the back's a larger muscle group)
My Diet's good I'm getting plently of rest (as everything else is slowly growing).
Problem is i notice everyone elses impressive delts in the gym as a result of mine looking sh1te.
Any help required
cheers
Rodge
< Message edited by BencherRdg -- Mar. 15 2008 15:22:21 >
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 15:30:53
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beefycol
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thers no (unless i missed it) side raises, front raises, and rear delt flys. they will give alround size on your delt, making you look wider and bigger.
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 16:34:40
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BencherRdg
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quote:
ORIGINAL: beefycol
thers no (unless i missed it) side raises, front raises, and rear delt flys. they will give alround size on your delt, making you look wider and bigger.
Hi Mate,
side raides/lat raises at end of day 3.
I was never sure to add in bent over laterals as i thought i keep hearing people say rows will work them (they dont seem to be doing!  )
Ive not really done front raises for a bit do you think they're necessary
Do you think i need few more sets of shoulder presses?
cheers
Rodge
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 16:39:17
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beefycol
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yeah it does get worked a lil doing rows, but i always train my rear delts, front raise targets the front delt,
i would add front raises and rear delt flys, o yeah sorry see side raise now, your doing 10-12 reps, might be worth increasing the weight and doing 8 reps, i always hold it for 2 seconds when is at the half way point
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 16:43:39
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cricket_fire
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I'm not expert on should building, but I think the flat bench, incline bench, and standing militaries will hit the front delt plenty
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 16:46:11
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beefycol
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yeah bench press etc hits the front delt, i still do front raises tho.
anything over the head, shoulder press, hits the side delt.
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 16:58:06
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R3261
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if it is such a concern you could focus on bringing them up,
in which case a good idea would be to reduce the amount of work on other bodyparts
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 17:02:34
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BencherRdg
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quote:
ORIGINAL: R3261
if it is such a concern you could focus on bringing them up,
in which case a good idea would be to reduce the amount of work on other bodyparts
That sounds good and i is something ive considered before but i suppose ive got to decide wether i want to hit my 100kg BW aim first, hoping i can improve them in the process?????
Col,
where in my routine would you place the front raises and rear raises? I always thought higher reps, less weight and perfect form were the bestthing on these hence me keeping them at 10-12 reps
Rodge
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 17:11:36
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beefycol
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i do 8 reps, and hold it half way point, i do few weeks of dumbell side raises to help balance and lil muscles, and at my gym i use the side lateral machine very good cant cheat at all.
low reps strength
8ish reps mass, size building
12-15 reps endrance.
sure you know that anyway. i would do 3 sets of shoulder press insted of 4, give that a try, i would do front raises and rear delts after your side raises.
i think i would move lat pul down and weighted chins to the t bar row etc. and from that day id move the shrugs to the day you do shoulders imo.
i do one muscle a week, mon shoulders, back tues, legs thurs, chest fri, arms sat
< Message edited by beefycol -- Mar. 15 2008 17:14:38 >
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 17:11:43
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BencherRdg
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can you see my issue now?
NB the photo does no justice to my other body parts but my shoudlers always look like this!
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 17:18:57
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beefycol
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ye i see, it might be worth changing your whole routine, and do one like i do (one muscle a day) if your cant fit arms in in the week i sometimes do tris when i do back, n bis when i do chest.
im sure your shoulder will catch up,
mite be worth a change of routine or just adding few extra excerises to your shoulder workout, upto you 
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 17:22:54
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BencherRdg
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quote:
ORIGINAL: beefycol
i do 8 reps, and hold it half way point, i do few weeks of dumbell side raises to help balance and lil muscles, and at my gym i use the side lateral machine very good cant cheat at all.
low reps strength
8ish reps mass, size building
12-15 reps endrance.
sure you know that anyway. i would do 3 sets of shoulder press insted of 4, give that a try, i would do front raises and rear delts after your side raises.
i think i would move lat pul down and weighted chins do the t bar row etc. and from that day id move the shrugs to the day you do shoulders imo.
i do one muscle a week, mon shoulders, back tues, legs thurs, chest fri, arms sat
Maybe my problem's in my application then so you hold it at half wya point on side raises then do the rest of the movment then down again?.
I suppose its only the first set thats 12 reps though (on military). Maybe i dont need 2 warm up sets too and i'm tiring myself out.
I see what you are saying about the routine. Its somthing that was put together by a former mod on here and most of its working, i know it looks like a real arse about face sort of routine but it feels pretty good.
I was just apprehensive that there maybe not enough delt work (maybe i'm looking answers when the real answer is I'm not pressing overherad hard enough i dont know). Then I also wondered because some advocate BB press & DB press & isolation, some say one is enough.
This is why i'm confused.
I think I want to carry on running this current routine then do a muscle per workout specific routine when this gets stale I think.
I appreciate the help Col and the other guys
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 17:29:09
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beefycol
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yeah agree keep routine upto till you stop gaining then id give a routine like mine a try.
i would propley add some rear delts, and front raise tho. wouldnt do much more than 8 reps either
i always do a lil warm up nothing to waste energy, just to get the blood flowing, just do ten rep light side raises, and ten rep light shoulder press, and a quick stretch
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 18:31:23
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R3261
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if it were me
upper/ lower split 2 x a week
maintenance on lower
on upper try to put the weight up each and every session
obviously you won't be able to do any pressing for the chest
shoulder movements first
something like
shoulder press: 5 x 5
lat raise: 3 x 8-12
hammer hi row: 2 x 5
hammer BTN pulldown: 1 set ~ 8-12
pec dec/cable x-over: 2-3 x 6-8
bis: 1-2 set
tris: 1-2 sets
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 15 2008 19:53:55
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tgr1989
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for 1 month do shoulders on there own, and hit them really hard.
do something like 10 sets of db press. starting at a weight you can do 12 on working down to 6 ish.
then do 5 sets of side raises, 5 sets upright rows, 10-12 reps.
the anterior deltiod does not need any extra work as db press will hit it very hard as will benching etc, rear delt will be hit from up rows and other rows enough.
low volume obv isnt working so u should try a change, and those 3 exersises are the best for shoulders imo.
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 16 2008 1:31:48
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Jazz
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You might respond well to training your shoulders more frequently or focusing more on that bodypart for a while. Make overhead pressing your main shoulder exercise and focus on increasing strength in that exercise. You don't tend to see many people who can lift a lot on the military press with small shoulders. You could also vary the rep ranges try low med and high reps....
What's your bench like compared to your Military Press ?
< Message edited by Jazz -- Mar. 16 2008 1:32:38 >
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 16 2008 3:01:06
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markus1477
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Am I the only thinking there is nothing wrong with the shoulders? Are they not proportional to the rest of the body or something?
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 17 2008 10:27:12
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odyysey
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My shoulders have come on leaps and bounds since I started doing Clean & Presses. Normally can get about 11 reps all from the floor with 65kg and then when I can't press any more I do another 4-6 reps of cleans to collar bone level. Seems to hit the entire Delt rather than 1 individual head and you also get a bit of trap and lat recruitment from the cleans.
1 set of those then straight into seated dbell presses, blast them up as fast as possible but lower to a count of 5, 8 if you really want a burn. 10 reps of that and straight into standing dbell laterals done in a similar style to Beefycol not allowing dbell's to touch hips, about 11 reps, maybe a drop set. That is it.
I'd hazard a guess my physique/gentics are very similar to yours and I found doing a very short, almost rest free workout did wonders for my development as oppossed to the typical bodybuilder routines.
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RE: Shoulders Really Lagging - Mar. 17 2008 11:55:09
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McLaren
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Train overhead 2x per week. Once with 3 or 4 sets of 8ish reps Military Press. Once with HEAVY push press working up to 3x3.
All these raises are counter productive in my experience as they cause significant wear and tear on the shoulder without benefiting as much as overhead pressing.
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